Re Bregman:

I'm sure this would be diggable in the stat weeds, but I'm curious if there's any change in the pitches he's swinging at, and the angle of his swing with the new bat cast data. Between the timing and angle there has to be a reason for the pop ups. Is it just father time slowing his reaction?

Beat40 said:

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BQRyno said:

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Bregman doesn't need to be down for weeks to "prove it." We have guys with a better ops (nearly every other player) who should be in the cleanup spot. Bregman doesn't belong there until/unless he's the best option for that spot. That's it.

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But the question is actually how long? If he hits like he did 2017-2023 (excluding 2019) for 1 week? 2 weeks? 3 weeks? Because that hitter is currently better than Pena.

Bregman is to going to catch up in OPS, so, you're going to have to use a time period to judge if he's back to form.

So again, how long are you waiting to move him back to 4. The Astros need the 2017-2023 (excluding 2019) Alex Bregman in the 4-spot badly, so if he goes he's back to that, you have to move him back to the 4 even if his OPS is lower than Peña and Meyers.

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Can we wait to have that discussion until his obo surpasses something like .800?

I'm sorry but you guys are just a beating when it comes to this Abreu stuff.

What did Abreu do last night to embarrass himself? He didn't make any errors and accounted for half of the run production. He actually showed improvement over what we've seen.

I'm not gonna sit here and defend Abreu's production because it's been woefully dreadful, but I'm fed up with the keyboard warriors who constantly beat him down.

And yeah the 20 year vet making $20 mil a year is gonna get the shot over the rookie OF stuck in a position logjam. That's just how it goes. That's not shocking to me and not sure why it is to any one of you.

Ag_07 said:

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What did Abreu do last night to embarrass himself?

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Since I love to do the made up fantasy trade bit, here's another one if we find ourselves in give up mode in July and decide we can't extend Tucker.

Tucker to the Twins for Larnach, Brooks Lee and Zebby Matthews

Larnach may seem like a weird target if you look at this big league stats but his statcast numbers are top notch. His batted ball metrics have always been good but the key for him has been cutting down whiff rate and k rate, which have both improved. He also struggles a fair bit against lefties but we have the luxury of several righty OF's that can handle lefties in a light platoon. He has 3 more years of control so we won't have to worry about his departure any time soon.



Brooks Lee is graded as possibly having the best hit tool in the minors and is already in AAA with 20 HR power as well. He plays a fringe SS but his long-term position is 3B, so perfect for us. I would compare him to Lamont Wade if he could play a good 3B.

As for Matthews, he's a high floor pitcher with decent upside. He may have the best control in the minors (51 strikeouts to 1 walk this year) but don't let that fool you. He's consistently working a mid 90's fastball that can touch 98, so this isn't a soft tosser. His offspeed is fringe but with a dominant fastball and dominant control, I could see him being a Nate Eovaldi type pitcher.

Joe Espada didn’t have any further updates on Cristian Javier or José Urquidy.

— Chandler Rome (@Chandler_Rome) May 28, 2024

BQRyno said:

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Beat40 said:

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BQRyno said:

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Bregman doesn't need to be down for weeks to "prove it." We have guys with a better ops (nearly every other player) who should be in the cleanup spot. Bregman doesn't belong there until/unless he's the best option for that spot. That's it.

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But the question is actually how long? If he hits like he did 2017-2023 (excluding 2019) for 1 week? 2 weeks? 3 weeks? Because that hitter is currently better than Pena.

Bregman is to going to catch up in OPS, so, you're going to have to use a time period to judge if he's back to form.

So again, how long are you waiting to move him back to 4. The Astros need the 2017-2023 (excluding 2019) Alex Bregman in the 4-spot badly, so if he goes he's back to that, you have to move him back to the 4 even if his OPS is lower than Peña and Meyers.

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Can we wait to have that discussion until his obo surpasses something like .800?

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No, because if he hits like his track record shows once he moves into the 5th spot, it may be 4 weeks before his OPS is above .800. You would miss out on 2017-2023 Bregman for potentially 2-3 weeks in the 4 spot if you wait until his OPS is over .800. It's the entire point of my questions and the crux of what to do with Bregman if he starts mashing the ball while in the 5th spot.

I'm asking the question of how long to wait because if he improves and shows he's hitting to his track record (which is better than what Pena is currently doing) from the 5th spot, you can't afford to keep that hitter there for a long time.

txags92 said:

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Beat40 said:

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BQRyno said:

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Bregman doesn't need to be down for weeks to "prove it." We have guys with a better ops (nearly every other player) who should be in the cleanup spot. Bregman doesn't belong there until/unless he's the best option for that spot. That's it.

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But the question is actually how long? If he hits like he did 2017-2023 (excluding 2019) for 1 week? 2 weeks? 3 weeks? Because that hitter is currently better than Pena.

Bregman is to going to catch up in OPS, so, you're going to have to use a time period to judge if he's back to form.

So again, how long are you waiting to move him back to 4. The Astros need the 2017-2023 (excluding 2019) Alex Bregman in the 4-spot badly, so if he goes he's back to that, you have to move him back to the 4 even if his OPS is lower than Peña and Meyers.

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You keep acting like it is a foregone conclusion that he will revert back to 2017-2023 Bregman hitting from the 4 spot. If we were 3 weeks into the season, I would share your optimism. We are at the end of May and I no longer do.

I think the Bregman we see right now is who he is this year until he proves otherwise over a significant period of time. What is "a significant period of time"? To me it is more than one series against ****ty pitching and probably more than a week.

If somebody told you Kessinger was hitting .330 with an .800+ OPS for a week, would you start making plans for the rest of the season around him hitting high in the order? If not, why do it for a known streaky hitter like Bregman if he happens to string together a couple of good outings?

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I haven't assumed anything. I keep saying "IF."

The fact is 2017-2023 Bregman is a much, much better hitter than this year's Peña, and IF, while he's in the 5th spot he appears to revert back to 2017-2023 Alex Bregman, you cannot afford to have that guy batting 5th any longer than you need to.

Only reason I'm asking the hypothetical is because people don't want Bregman rushed back into the 4th spot, so I'm asking how long it would take for you to move him back there if he reverted to who his track record says he is.

Your comparison of Kessinger and Bregman is not a good one. They are not even in the same stratosphere. I get you don't trust a thing about Bregman right now, but come on, comparing him to Kessinger? One has skins on the wall and the other holds coffee. One has done it for 7 years, the other hasn't even done it at all.

If he hits like 2017-2023 Bregman for 2 weeks, coupled with his track record, I'm way, way more comfortable with him in the 4 spot.

2 weeks to a month is what I'd want to see before we move him back, and even then only if we need to jumble the lineup around. If his replacement (Pena?) is hitting well there, then I wouldn't change just to make the change.

Fact is this..... bregmans numbers have grossly declined since the juiced ball era and cheating scandal...... he will be lucky to get a 5/100 this off-season

EastCoastAgNc said:

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Joe Espada didn’t have any further updates on Cristian Javier or José Urquidy.

— Chandler Rome (@Chandler_Rome) May 28, 2024

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Jose Abreu is the Astros' new #4 starter.

Mr.Bond said:

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Fact is this..... bregmans numbers have grossly declined since the juiced ball era and cheating scandal...... he will be lucky to get a 5/100 this off-season

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He will be lucky to get a 10M "prove it" year

Serviam said:

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rewind to the start of the season. Would you have traded:

Yordan, Bregman, McCormick to the Braves for Matt Olson and Austin Riley with atlanta retaining 5% of each salary?

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Going back to this, as things stand now, Tucker makes more sense for them than Yordan. Could you move Tucker and Bregman for Ozuna and Riley? Ozuna can play 1B for us (Braves coaches have reported he looks good there and would play if they didn't have Olson) and Riley solves a long-term hole. The Braves can then get Murphy and d'Arnaud consistent ABs splitting DH and C. Might be able to blow it out further if you are including JV (whom they wanted last year). Might be the biggest trade of all time. lol

One-third of the season in, sitting 6 games under .500 and 4.5 games back of the division lead.

Ort had a 12.08 ERA and 2.45 WHIP in 12 2/3 innings at Norfolk this year. https://t.co/6C76kq9dR1

— Brian McTaggart (@brianmctaggart) May 29, 2024

Playing .500 ball since the Milwaukee series. Take 2 of the next 3 and regroup at home for a couple series.

f1ghtintexasaggie said:

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Ag_07 said:

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Watched every pitch. Still stand by what I said.

The Abreu situation is incredibly complex and I'm rooting for him.

Leaving it at that.

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No one is rooting against him. Some of us just see reality for what it is, and the futility in doing the same stupid **** over and over again to our detriment.

All of us here want to see the Astros win, WITH OR WITHOUT Jose Abreu.

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Lol many on this thread are absolutely rooting against him. I mean legit posts last night and today saying basically his hit and rbi were meaningless because any one could have done it.

EastCoastAgNc said:

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There's a key difference in rooting for Abreu to fail, and expecting that he won't succeed. The first makes you an *******. The second is drawing an accurate conclusion based on ample data.

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Right. I expect Bregman to hit a pop up to second base every at bat. I don't want him to

But that said, based on posting history, there are absolutely people rooting for him to fail. They'd rather be right and have someone to be angry at.

Hey, sometimes it's to 3rd base.

EastCoastAgNc said:

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htxag09 said:

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f1ghtintexasaggie said:

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Ag_07 said:

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Watched every pitch. Still stand by what I said.

The Abreu situation is incredibly complex and I'm rooting for him.

Leaving it at that.

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No one is rooting against him. Some of us just see reality for what it is, and the futility in doing the same stupid **** over and over again to our detriment.

All of us here want to see the Astros win, WITH OR WITHOUT Jose Abreu.

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Lol many on this thread are absolutely rooting against him. I mean legit posts last night and today saying basically his hit and rbi were meaningless because any one could have done it.

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How is that rooting against him? It's true, anyone else in the team is capable of getting the RBI he did. Dubon or Chas would have been able to do that. And in the end, it was meaningless. He cost two runs through his defense and only compensated 1 run through his offense.

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Lol. Anyone on the team could have, sure. Why didn't they?

I mean that same inning didn't Tucker have the chance with runners on 2nd and 3rd?

htxag09 said:

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f1ghtintexasaggie said:

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Ag_07 said:

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Watched every pitch. Still stand by what I said.

The Abreu situation is incredibly complex and I'm rooting for him.

Leaving it at that.

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No one is rooting against him. Some of us just see reality for what it is, and the futility in doing the same stupid **** over and over again to our detriment.

All of us here want to see the Astros win, WITH OR WITHOUT Jose Abreu.

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Lol many on this thread are absolutely rooting against him. I mean legit posts last night and today saying basically his hit and rbi were meaningless because any one could have done it.

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He drove in 1 run and gave away 2. We criticize when we believe a different player would have not given away runs.

When he's in the lineup, I'd like Jose Abreu to go 4-for-4 every might.
But I don't think he needs or deserves to be in the lineup or on the roster.
So when he ****s up, I mouth off on the message board.

htxag09 said:

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EastCoastAgNc said:

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htxag09 said:

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f1ghtintexasaggie said:

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Ag_07 said:

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Watched every pitch. Still stand by what I said.

The Abreu situation is incredibly complex and I'm rooting for him.

Leaving it at that.

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No one is rooting against him. Some of us just see reality for what it is, and the futility in doing the same stupid **** over and over again to our detriment.

All of us here want to see the Astros win, WITH OR WITHOUT Jose Abreu.

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Lol many on this thread are absolutely rooting against him. I mean legit posts last night and today saying basically his hit and rbi were meaningless because any one could have done it.

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How is that rooting against him? It's true, anyone else in the team is capable of getting the RBI he did. Dubon or Chas would have been able to do that. And in the end, it was meaningless. He cost two runs through his defense and only compensated 1 run through his offense.

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Lol. Anyone on the team could have, sure. Why didn't they?

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Because this is baseball where 1 out of 3 is elite. None are saying everyone else of would have 100% of the time. This isn't quite as sophisticated as you are making it.

We want the best 9 on the field. Nothing in 2024 to date says he is ever part of that equation. I'd love to be wrong. I was wrong about Jake. I still think I'm right about Dubon and he should play *anywhere* more.

RED AG 98 said:

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htxag09 said:

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EastCoastAgNc said:

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htxag09 said:

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f1ghtintexasaggie said:

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Ag_07 said:

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Watched every pitch. Still stand by what I said.

The Abreu situation is incredibly complex and I'm rooting for him.

Leaving it at that.

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No one is rooting against him. Some of us just see reality for what it is, and the futility in doing the same stupid **** over and over again to our detriment.

All of us here want to see the Astros win, WITH OR WITHOUT Jose Abreu.

---

Lol many on this thread are absolutely rooting against him. I mean legit posts last night and today saying basically his hit and rbi were meaningless because any one could have done it.

---

How is that rooting against him? It's true, anyone else in the team is capable of getting the RBI he did. Dubon or Chas would have been able to do that. And in the end, it was meaningless. He cost two runs through his defense and only compensated 1 run through his offense.

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Lol. Anyone on the team could have, sure. Why didn't they?

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Because this is baseball where 1 out of 3 is elite. None are saying everyone else of would have 100% of the time. This isn't quite as sophisticated as you are making it.

We want the best 9 on the field. Nothing in 2024 to date says he is ever part of that equation. I'd love to be wrong. I was wrong about Jake. I still think I'm right about Dubon and he should play *anywhere* more.

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Checks box score to see what abreu hit last night…..




Yes, it's a joke.

htxag09 said:

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EastCoastAgNc said:

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htxag09 said:

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f1ghtintexasaggie said:

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Ag_07 said:

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Watched every pitch. Still stand by what I said.

The Abreu situation is incredibly complex and I'm rooting for him.

Leaving it at that.

---

No one is rooting against him. Some of us just see reality for what it is, and the futility in doing the same stupid **** over and over again to our detriment.

All of us here want to see the Astros win, WITH OR WITHOUT Jose Abreu.

---

Lol many on this thread are absolutely rooting against him. I mean legit posts last night and today saying basically his hit and rbi were meaningless because any one could have done it.

---

How is that rooting against him? It's true, anyone else in the team is capable of getting the RBI he did. Dubon or Chas would have been able to do that. And in the end, it was meaningless. He cost two runs through his defense and only compensated 1 run through his offense.

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Lol. Anyone on the team could have, sure. Why didn't they?

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You aren't understanding my point. The other players like Chas and Dubon weren't in the lineup and at the plate to take advantage of the mistake pitch. No one else got the mistake pitches to hit in other rbi situations (or got screwed by terrible umpiring), so you can't correlate their failure to somehow prove greatness on the part of abreu. Anyone else we have on the bench could have gotten a rbi on that single pitch.