Robot umpires

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BenFiasco14
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11:24a, 11/4/23
AG
During the World Series, there was a blurb about the MLB minor league circuits, and how they are currently testing computer calls on strikes and balls.

I know this topic comes up somewhat regularly, but now that the season is behind us, what do we think about "robot umpires" via a two prong question:

1) Do you think the MLB will eventually transition to robot/computer/AI umpires and if so, when do you see it happening?

2) what is your personal opinion on implementing robot umpires in the MLB? Will this take away from the spirit of baseball? Or make it faster, fairer, and more efficient?
CNN is an enemy of the state and should be treated as such.
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PlaneCrashGuy
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12:35p, 11/4/23
AG
I would support it.
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fc2112
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12:36p, 11/4/23
I answer this question the same way every time.

I'm generally against robot umpires, but the human ones keep trying to sell me on the idea.
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Sex Panther
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1:31p, 11/4/23
AG
It's only a matter of time before it happens, probably 5-10 years

And I definitely support it just so I can stop hearing fanbases whine that the umps and MLB are out to get them. At least once robo-umps are in place - the internet complaining will be limited to 'The announcer hates us!'
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AgBQ-00
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1:53p, 11/4/23
AG
I think it will be a human umps with challenge system in place. Best of both worlds. You still get the human element that would be missed and you get the ability for a batter or pitcher to challenge calls they think are wrong.
ETA: saw it in action in the minors and it works well
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Quad Dog
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In reply to AgBQ-00 • 3:01p, 11/4/23
AG
AgBQ-00 said:
I think it will be a human umps with challenge system in place. Best of both worlds. You still get the human element that would be missed and you get the ability for a batter or pitcher to challenge calls they think are wrong.
ETA: saw it in action in the minors and it works well

Challenge system is just robo umps with extra steps. If they can instantly declare strike or ball why have a challenge system?
I don't think anyone will miss the human element of a bunch of old guys making bad calls and being protected by a strong union.
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Jaydoug
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3:10p, 11/4/23
AG
Unions and other liberal wage control devices are replacing humans in fast food joints with robots, why not behind the plate?

Hell, AI using live feed cameras could probably beat over half the umps on every call.
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AgBQ-00
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3:43p, 11/4/23
AG
They will keep the human umps to maintain the feel of the traditional game. It will also not devalue the catching position by keeping them. A catcher that is talented at inducing calls is a big part of the game.
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fc2112
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4:28p, 11/4/23
Yeah, they still need a human behind the plate. He'll just have an earpiece that tells him ball or strike.

Just imagine how amazed Angel Hernandez will feel to see what actual balls and strikes look like.
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Quad Dog
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In reply to AgBQ-00 • 4:33p, 11/4/23
AG
AgBQ-00 said:
They will keep the human umps to maintain the feel of the traditional game. It will also not devalue the catching position by keeping them. A catcher that is talented at inducing calls is a big part of the game.
Human umps will need to be behind home plate to make signals that are fed to their earpiece from the robo ump. They will be there for things like catcher's interference and plays at the plate.

A catcher inducing calls is still just a guy talented at tricking people who are bad at their job. I'd rather have a consistent strike zone.
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South Platte
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7:37p, 11/4/23
Leave the ump, take the "strike zone" graphic off the TV and all this whining goes away. It's not even accurate.
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JohnnyTexAg1995
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7:45p, 11/4/23
In the games I saw it used at Sugar Land it was the most relaxing baseball I've watched. You can literally only be mad at your team cause it's just right!
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AgRyan04
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8:08a, 11/5/23
I am 100% for it.

A strike is a strike, and if I can see it on TV because FOX has a better system for identifying it, then the league should have a better version.

My biggest gripe about sports is when the athletes on the field don't determine the outcome of the game.
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gambochaman
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2:36p, 11/5/23
AG
Cant come soon enough
Umps keep getting worse every year
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htxag09
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In reply to South Platte • 8:13a, 11/6/23
AG
South Platte said:
Leave the ump, take the "strike zone" graphic off the TV and all this whining goes away. It's not even accurate.
Sorry, this is just incorrect....

Not the strike zone graphic being wrong, agree there. But that all the whining goes away.

Want evidence? Watch and follow college baseball. You think the whining is bad in MLB........ And college games do not have the graphic.
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htxag09
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8:16a, 11/6/23
AG
And I'll say I'm for robo umps in MLB for one reason. And that is how damn good at seeing pitches some MLB hitters are. There are a decent amount of hitters who know if a ball is 1" off the plate. They should be rewarded for that, not punished.

The whole "got to protect with 2 strikes" argument is fine for pretty much every other level of baseball. But why should these guys have to protect if they know it's a ball?
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TexasAggiesWin
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10:38a, 11/6/23
S
I welcome robot ump calling balls and strikes and getting that put into place as quickly as possible. There is absolutely no reason not to utilize technology to assist in calling balls and strikes in this day and age. If the only reason you can come up with for using human umpires calling balls and strikes is "because they have always been there", then you are on some shaky ground.
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94chem
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In reply to htxag09 • 11:03a, 11/6/23
htxag09 said:
And I'll say I'm for robo umps in MLB for one reason. And that is how damn good at seeing pitches some MLB hitters are. There are a decent amount of hitters who know if a ball is 1" off the plate. They should be rewarded for that, not punished.

The whole "got to protect with 2 strikes" argument is fine for pretty much every other level of baseball. But why should these guys have to protect if they know it's a ball?
The umpires are amazing for the most part, when you consider what the job requires. They actually have a chance on inside/outside calls; I have no idea how they get high/low correct. The batters are a better judge of high/low.

And you're right - all strikeouts count the same. If a guy takes a pitch 1" off the plate and gets rung up, that will translate over 162 games to a much higher OBP.
94chem,
That, sir, was the greatest post in the history of TexAgs. I salute you. -- Dough
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94chem
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11:12a, 11/6/23
And, to the credit of MLB, let's look at everything that's been done to improve the game:

- pitch clock (no brainer)
- pick-offs (places premium on defensive catchers, getting pitchers to throw from the stretch, lineup speed)
- DH
- Stop penalizing hitters for being left-handed
- 3 batter minimum (ok, no more Frank Tanana, Jesse Orosco, Greg Minton - so what)
- Regular season ghost runner (a balance to 3 true outcomes)

The best part is that none of these things changed the game - they all rank up there with lowering the mound and tweaking the strike zone. The pick-off rule probably had the greatest impact, but more stolen bases is good for the game.

94chem,
That, sir, was the greatest post in the history of TexAgs. I salute you. -- Dough
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DrZ
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1:51p, 11/6/23
AG
if it ever goes to 100% roboump I think the batting averages would go up on average 25 points per man. They have a great sense of the zone. If they dont have to worry about called strikes that are out they will sit and wait.
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coconutED
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In reply to Sex Panther • 11:39a, 11/7/23
AG
Sex Panther said:
the internet complaining will be limited to 'The announcer hates us!'
Don't underestimate rabid sports fans. They will, without a doubt, accuse the robots of being biased when calls go against their team. Eventually, it will be claimed that MLB riggs the machines in favor of certain teams and/or players (and there's a non zero chance that will actually be true).
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htxag09
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In reply to coconutED • 11:40a, 11/7/23
AG
coconutED said:
Sex Panther said:
the internet complaining will be limited to 'The announcer hates us!'
Don't underestimate rabid sports fans. They will, without a doubt, accuse the robots of being biased when calls go against their team. Eventually, it will be claimed that MLB riggs the machines in favor of certain teams and/or players (and there's a non zero chance that will actually be true).

Already complaints that they change the balls for different teams.
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Sex Panther
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In reply to coconutED • 11:41a, 11/7/23
AG
coconutED said:
Sex Panther said:
the internet complaining will be limited to 'The announcer hates us!'
Don't underestimate rabid sports fans. They will, without a doubt, accuse the robots of being biased when calls go against their team. Eventually, it will be claimed that MLB riggs the machines in favor of certain teams and/or players (and there's a non zero chance that will actually be true).

THE ASTROS HAVE HACKED THE ROBO UMPS!
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BenFiasco14
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In reply to coconutED • 4:31p, 11/7/23
AG
coconutED said:
Sex Panther said:
the internet complaining will be limited to 'The announcer hates us!'
Don't underestimate rabid sports fans. They will, without a doubt, accuse the robots of being biased when calls go against their team. Eventually, it will be claimed that MLB riggs the machines in favor of certain teams and/or players (and there's a non zero chance that will actually be true).


STOP THE (pitch) COUNT!
CNN is an enemy of the state and should be treated as such.
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South Platte
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In reply to htxag09 • 6:02p, 11/7/23
htxag09 said:
South Platte said:
Leave the ump, take the "strike zone" graphic off the TV and all this whining goes away. It's not even accurate.
Sorry, this is just incorrect....

Not the strike zone graphic being wrong, agree there. But that all the whining goes away.

Want evidence? Watch and follow college baseball. You think the whining is bad in MLB........ And college games do not have the graphic.
Managers and players rarely get thrown out of college baseball games. I thought all the games broadcasted on ESPN had the strike zone graphic.

I guess I just see this as part of baseball since Day 1. I umpired for a few years in kid pitch little league and calling balls and strikes was hard AF. Fans would whine but the coaches never once said anything to me about my calls.

Straight fastballs are easier to call. The movement the pitchers put on the ball is insane. Pitches from a RHP that are angling/curving away from a right-hand batter and stay over the plate but end up outside look like strikes to the umpire. I don't like when an umpire calls a strike on the backdoor breaking ball that never makes it over the plate.

I'm a traditionalist, so I feel like balls/strikes never impact the winner and loser of a game. If you lose you should have played better.
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bek.90
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10:17a, 11/8/23
AG
While they're working on adding robo umps, which I'm 100% in favor of in whatever way they decide to implement them, the following three plays currently on the non-reviewable list, need to be made reviewable...
  • Foul tips
  • Infield trap plays
  • Check swings

And before you argue that check swings are too subjective, all they would need to do is add a simple rule that says the front edge of the plate is the threshold, which is basically what they currently use anyway. Yes, the replays would still be subjective to a degree, but not nearly as subjective as they are now, especially when a homeplate umpire refuses to ask for help. After all, to overrule the onfield call, there still has to be indisputable video evidence.
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htxag09
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In reply to bek.90 • 10:19a, 11/8/23
AG
I agree check swing rules need to be adjusted. If your bat is parallel to the front of the plate how's that not a swing? It's no different than a bunt.
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91AggieLawyer
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12:07a, 11/9/23
AG
I'm telling you guys to be careful what you wish for. Automated strike zones or robot umps, whatever you want to call them, are going to spawn conspiracy theories that MLB is favoring one team or groups of teams over the others due to their programing of the zone.

Nothing is going to change. Teams that get the calls will like it and those that don't won't. Its the same as it is now. Umps that call 97+% according to that umpire tracking site still get trashed all the time.

I do agree that the rule regarding strikes needs to be edited with regard to check swings, however, it will be difficult to call unless replay is involved. 1st/3rd base umpires may be forced to use some objective standard rather than the subjective one now but the judgment aspect of it would still be there. However, I think an objective standard would be better though the calls that result from it won't be universally accepted.

As long as there are winners/losers, there will ALWAYS be problems with the umpiring/officiating. That will never change. Period. I can put in a system that I guarantee is 100% and you'll call bull**** on it when it doesn't produce the call you want.
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AgRyan04
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In reply to 91AggieLawyer • 6:25a, 11/9/23
You're right, people will complain about everything!

Im not super worried about it though. Every single MLB pitch thrown all season is broadcast for TV so there would be actual video evidence if that were the case. If this was NCAA baseball where none of our away non-conference games were televised, I could see that being more of a concern.

I think the liklihood of that is much lower than the liklihood of umpires consistantly being consistant.
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bek.90
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In reply to AgRyan04 • 11:58a, 11/9/23
AG
AgRyan04 said:
You're right, people will complain about everything!

Im not super worried about it though. Every single MLB pitch thrown all season is broadcast for TV so there would be actual video evidence if that were the case. If this was NCAA baseball where none of our away non-conference games were televised, I could see that being more of a concern.

I think the liklihood of that is much lower than the liklihood of umpires consistantly being consistant.
This is my thinking as well. I may be ultimately be proven wrong if robo umps end up being used in some capacity, but right now, I think they will do more good than harm. Umpires are human, and whether they admit to it or not, they already have built in biases, whether it be a personal bias against an individual player he thinks is an a-hole, or a bias based on a reputation of having a good eye, or a bias for being a superstar, or maybe even a bias for a player an umpire likes personally. We all know these biases exist, even to the point where they are openly discuseed sometimes by announcers, especially when it's based on reputation of having a good eye or a superstar. I'm not saying all umpires conciously make calls based on biases, but I guarantee some of them do. I also belive many more of them are not even aware they make calls subconciously based on a built in bias. The problem with this in the current situation is there is no accountability for being a crappy umpire, and that is the part in all of this that will never change. In my opinion, robo umps calling balls and strikes is the best way to remove these biases that I feel harm the game. Just one man's opinion.
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TX_Aggie37
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12:19p, 11/9/23
AG
I am very much against robot umps. I understand why people want them... because it would give a uniform standard for every single game. I just don't like it.

Part of being a really good pitcher/catcher is recognizing the zone and being able to exploit it. If one guy can do that better than his counter part on the other team, then he should be rewarded for that.

I do think that if the MLB's goal is more runs, then they will go to the robot umpire system. Robot umps would favor the hitter far more than the pitcher because those pitches that get called a ball or two off would be balls. There are far more of those than missed strike calls in my opinion.
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bek.90
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In reply to TX_Aggie37 • 1:25p, 11/9/23
AG
TX_Aggie37 said:
I am very much against robot umps. I understand why people want them... because it would give a uniform standard for every single game. I just don't like it.

Part of being a really good pitcher/catcher is recognizing the zone and being able to exploit it. If one guy can do that better than his counter part on the other team, then he should be rewarded for that.

I do think that if the MLB's goal is more runs, then they will go to the robot umpire system. Robot umps would favor the hitter far more than the pitcher because those pitches that get called a ball or two off would be balls. There are far more of those than missed strike calls in my opinion.
I understand your point of the bolded part, but I completely disagree. A pitcher shouldn't get rewarded for throwing a pitch outside the clearly defined strike zone, nor should a hitter be punished for doing what he's supposed to do by not swinging at that pitch, just because an umpire is bad at his job, thinks the pitch is close enough, or any other reason. Consistently dotting the edges of the plate is a helluva lot more difficult than getting a 2" margin of error off the plate. I do agree wih the last part of your statement, though. I believe robo umps will lead to more offense and more traffic on the bases.
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bek.90
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In reply to bek.90 • 1:26p, 11/9/23
AG
bek.90 said:
TX_Aggie37 said:
DP
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_lefraud_
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In reply to TX_Aggie37 • 2:05p, 11/9/23
AG
TX_Aggie37 said:
I am very much against robot umps. I understand why people want them... because it would give a uniform standard for every single game. I just don't like it.

Part of being a really good pitcher/catcher is recognizing the zone and being able to exploit it. If one guy can do that better than his counter part on the other team, then he should be rewarded for that.

I do think that if the MLB's goal is more runs, then they will go to the robot umpire system. Robot umps would favor the hitter far more than the pitcher because those pitches that get called a ball or two off would be balls. There are far more of those than missed strike calls in my opinion.
But they ARE all balls, so they should be called as such.

I don't know how many times in the playoffs a guy started off 0-1 because the umpire called a first pitch ball off the plate a strike. That COMPLETELY changes the at bat and gives the pitcher too much control, control they didn't actually earn.
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fc2112
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In reply to TX_Aggie37 • 5:32p, 11/9/23
TX_Aggie37 said:
I am very much against robot umps. I understand why people want them... because it would give a uniform standard for every single game. I just don't like it.

Part of being a really good pitcher/catcher is recognizing the zone and being able to exploit it. If one guy can do that better than his counter part on the other team, then he should be rewarded for that.

I do think that if the MLB's goal is more runs, then they will go to the robot umpire system. Robot umps would favor the hitter far more than the pitcher because those pitches that get called a ball or two off would be balls. There are far more of those than missed strike calls in my opinion.

So you're against robot umpires because you view the human umpire's incompetence not as a bug, but a feature?

I can do without that feature.
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