Water Boy said:

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I would go Duran, Lowe, Rocker for Shane Bieber and Clase. Let's see who can beat this trade!

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OK, so I'm trying to get clear on the rules for your hypotheticals. Are these supposed to be realistic ideas, in that we can actually believe both teams would do it? Or is it just "here's who I'd trade for and what I'd give up".

If you're wanting anything remotely close to possible, there's no way Cleveland would go for that trade. You'd have to pony up 2 or 3 more minor league players.

I'm fine with this as an exercise in what-ifs, but if it's not even remotely realistic it's really a big waste of time and space on the board. JMO

Water Boy said:

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I would go Duran, Lowe, Rocker for Shane Bieber and Clase. Let's see who can beat this trade!

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I don't understand why you are trying to trade Lowe... He won a Silver Slugger two seasons ago and won a Gold Glove last year. He also played in 161 games last year.

Alright guys, didn't realize talking rangers ball in a slow offseason was clogging up the thread. If anyone wants to talk ball shoot me a message! See you boys on the 2024 season thread when the season starts.

Water Boy said:

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Never said it wasn't essential. But if you were to ask me what is more needed for this particular team I think arms would be the answer.

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Yeah we need arms, but you know we will need Zeke a lot this year. I would go in to every season assuming Seager will miss about 50 games, and we should consider ourselves fortunate if it's only that much.

Semien is coming off a season where he played every game and was really worn down by the end of the year. Maybe he will take more days off this year. Maybe he gets hurt this year.

Jung missed a bunch of time on a freak play where a ball was hit so hard that it broke a bone in his hand.

Zeke is going to be a key piece on this team and trading him for a guy who isn't one of the 5-10 best starting pitchers in the game doesn't make any sense.

Trading 3 guys trending upward for two guys trending downward does not appeal. Bieber is not the same guy from 3 years ago, and Clase's velocity showed a concerning drop.

thegoodolag15 said:

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Trading 3 guys trending upward for two guys trending downward does not appeal. Bieber is not the same guy from 3 years ago, and Clase's velocity showed a concerning drop.

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It seems like trading for a starting pitcher whose numbers in 2023 differed in any way from previous seasons is very risky. We don't really know how the pitch clock impacted guys last year and we need more data to make any conclusions. There are lots of guys who had weird years last year, Bieber being one of them, that teams should be very wary of.

Somebody please wake me up when Monty signs, be it with the Rangers or somebody else.

Maybe this is an acceptable compromise for conversation. Players I would be ok with the Rangers trading away.

In general:
Blaine Crim
Justin Foscue
Cole Winn
Jon Ornealas
Aaron Zavala

I don't think any of those guys are long-term solutions for the Rangers. They may have more value to another team.

Players I'd trade for a big return:
Owen White
Dustin Harris
Jack Leiter
Leody
Duran

I think those players have more chance of sticking with the Rangers in the future, and for me we'd have to get much more for them in a trade.

I didn't put Rocker on either list because I suspect his value is minimal at the moment because of the injury and the fact that's he pitched so very little as a pro.

rbtexan said:

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Maybe this is an acceptable compromise for conversation. Players I would be ok with the Rangers trading away.

In general:
Blaine Crim
Justin Foscue
Cole Winn
Jon Ornealas
Aaron Zavala

I don't think any of those guys are long-term solutions for the Rangers. They may have more value to another team.

Players I'd trade for a big return:
Owen White
Dustin Harris
Jack Leiter
Leody
Duran

I think those players have more chance of sticking with the Rangers in the future, and for me we'd have to get much more for them in a trade.

I didn't put Rocker on either list because I suspect his value is minimal at the moment because of the injury and the fact that's he pitched so very little as a pro.

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I agree, those are reasonable names to consider. I'd also add Lowe to your list. I know he's won a gold glove and a silver slugger award, but he's also close to the point where you have to pony up for a big contract or let him go via free agency. And you have to give something of value to get something of value in return.

Plus I am a little concerned with Lowe missing so many fastballs last year. Maybe it had to do with the situation with his mom, but who knows. Given all of the above, yeah I'd consider moving him for some pitching and putting Crim/Foscue at first base. Or a cheap free agent pickup on a short term deal.

$0.02

I'm all for get Monty back, grab a couple of bullpen arms over the next month or so that are reasonable, and run this thing back. Then if you need to go trade for one or two more in the season, fire away. Sborz and Leclerc give you a decent place to start from. Then you just have to see where the gaps are

Yeah, Lowe needs to stay on this team. Offensively, really we're looking for a DH and a LF. I think most of us hope that Langford will be the LF sometime this season, so really we're looking for a DH solution that could play MIF to spell Seager and Semien in the field occasionally.

It's possible that Duran could be that player, but I'm not sold on that.

I'd like to see Foscue get some at bats to see if he can be that guy. We've heard how bad he is defensively, but Lowe was once a liability too, so perhaps there is hope for Foscue to be able to give you 30 games in the field at 2nd/SS which is all you'd need.

Longer term the rangers have some options coming for 1B that show promise to be big time bats, but I think that's a 2025 and beyond conversation.

I'm thinking Langford breaks camp with the big club. Will be fun to watch during spring training

rbtexan said:

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Maybe this is an acceptable compromise for conversation. Players I would be ok with the Rangers trading away.

In general:
Blaine Crim
Justin Foscue
Cole Winn
Jon Ornealas
Aaron Zavala

I don't think any of those guys are long-term solutions for the Rangers. They may have more value to another team.

Players I'd trade for a big return:
Owen White
Dustin Harris
Jack Leiter
Leody
Duran

I think those players have more chance of sticking with the Rangers in the future, and for me we'd have to get much more for them in a trade.

I didn't put Rocker on either list because I suspect his value is minimal at the moment because of the injury and the fact that's he pitched so very little as a pro.

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I think you are pretty spot on with this list. I'll add though, that none of them should be off limits except Carter and Langford. I think when you start to cross guys off your trade list, you miss opportunities to help your team, but overall I agree.

AggieEP said:

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Yeah, Lowe needs to stay on this team. Offensively, really we're looking for a DH and a LF. I think most of us hope that Langford will be the LF sometime this season, so really we're looking for a DH solution that could play MIF to spell Seager and Semien in the field occasionally.

It's possible that Duran could be that player, but I'm not sold on that.

I'd like to see Foscue get some at bats to see if he can be that guy. We've heard how bad he is defensively, but Lowe was once a liability too, so perhaps there is hope for Foscue to be able to give you 30 games in the field at 2nd/SS which is all you'd need.

Longer term the rangers have some options coming for 1B that show promise to be big time bats, but I think that's a 2025 and beyond conversation.

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re Foscue

He's not a SS. He doesn't play SS in the minors. The Rangers have been trying him at 3rd and 1st because he's a liability even at 2nd.

I honestly don't understand the fascination with the guy. To me, he's Willie Calhoun - no glove and supposedly a good bat. Sure, he walks a lot and doesn't strike out much. But he hit .266 last season at AAA, and he's a career .276 hitter in the minors (never has batted .300). By comparison, Calhoun hit over .300 twice and over .290 two other times in the minors - and he turned out to be a big dud.

If Foscue makes the team, it should be as a full/part time DH. Defensively he's a guy you throw out somewhere on occasion and hope he doesn't embarrass himself. But Duran is a far, far, far superior player defensively and I think probably (at worst) as good a hitter.

AgBQ-00 said:

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I'm thinking Langford breaks camp with the big club. Will be fun to watch during spring training

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At this point I'd be pretty disappointed is he isn't on the big club to start the regular season. Only way that happens is if he looks completely lost in ST, which seems impossible because all he's done is hit for the past 1,000 days lol.

A regular outfield with Langford Carter and Adolis and Taveras would be a pretty salty OF rotation

1000% agree. You'd have to get someone in return that could help your team immediately in some way, or maybe in the near future in a somewhat significant way.

We really won't know what we have with Foscue until he plays. I'm not fascinated with him, but I do think the bat will play. Where he will play in the field is an open question for sure. I in no way intended to suggest he'd be a full time short stop in the big leagues, but if he can give you some games at 2nd when Bochy sits everyone, then maybe Semien could slide to short since Semien never sits.

shack009 said:

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Water Boy said:

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I would go Duran, Lowe, Rocker for Shane Bieber and Clase. Let's see who can beat this trade!

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I don't understand why you are trying to trade Lowe... He won a Silver Slugger two seasons ago and won a Gold Glove last year. He also played in 161 games last year.

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I think Lowe has always seemed like a work-in-progess. He seems pretty good, but with our history at 1B, he hasn't really done anything to set himself apart.

He is consistent. He was a Silver Slugger but his D was average/suspect. Last year, his D was GG worthy but his bat was average. In the playoffs, he disappeared. His mom's health could be a distraction. He is Arb1 in 2024.

'21 (25): 157 G, .264, 18HR, .358 OBP, .771 OPS
'22 (26): 157 G, .302, 27HR, .360 OBP, .851 OPS
'23 (27): 161 G, .262, 17HR, .360 OBP, .776 OPS

He is the kind of steady consistency that you take for granted.

I've suggested trading him. He is cheap (Arb) and can be a big improvement for a AL Central team who gets lost among players like Seager, Semien, and Adolis.

We have a number of options coming, or hopefuls.

thegoodolag15 said:

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Trading 3 guys trending upward for two guys trending downward does not appeal. Bieber is not the same guy from 3 years ago, and Clase's velocity showed a concerning drop.

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It is why I'm open to trading Lowe, et al. He has some team control which should return value. He'll get expensive in FA.

Posted earlier, here are some stats:

Quote:

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Crim (1B-26-AAA): 133G, .290, 22 HR, 107 SO, .385 OBP, .891 OPS (71BB)
Ortiz (1B-21-A/A+): 109G, .294, 33 HR, 126 SO, .371 OBP, .990 OPS (49BB)
Wendzel (IF-26-AAA): 124G, .236, 30 HR, 129 SO, .361 OBP, .838 OPS (77BB)
Langford (OF-21-All): 44G, .360, 10HR, 34 SO, .480 OBP, 1.157 OPS (36BB)

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If we traded Lowe, would Crim or Foscue enough to back-fil until Ortiz? Ortiz is pretty interesting.

From his MLB scouting reporting (Ortiz):

Quote:

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Almost all of Ortiz's value will come from his offensive production, which does put some pressure on his bat. He's a 6-foot, 230-pounder with well below-average speed and fringy arm strength. First base and left field are his only viable options besides DH, and the hope is that he can become an adequate defender at first.

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This is JMO. I don't trade Lowe unless it's for a star player, like a Corbin Burnes. And even then I'd be reluctant to do it.

Lowe isn't the type of player that's going to win you a WS necessarily, but he isn't going to lose you one either. He gives good ABs, plays good defense now, and is steady.

We have no idea what Crim or Foscue would do. They might be OK. They might be a definite step down (which is my personal opinion). Crim is adequate at 1st, and can hit (maybe), but he's never played in the majors and he'll be 27 this season. He's not an option IMO. Foscue can hit (maybe) but he hasn't played a lot of 1st and has been bad defensively where he HAS played.

I think Ortiz could be the 1st baseman of the future, time will tell. It's also possible that you eventually move an aging Seager or Semien to 1st. Maybe one of the outfielders spin down to 1st. I just don't think you trade Lowe unless you're really going to get something in return, or unless you are completely convinced you have someone in the system that can step in and give you what he does.

He's an easy guy to dismiss or even dislike as a player, because he seems like he could be a star and hasn't gotten there. But he's a .270-.280 hitter who'll give you good defense and between 15-25 HRs every year, along with a bunch of walks. Not flashy, but you can win a WS with a guy like that at 1st. Oh wait....we did.

I think this talk of Lowe being traded is just because of how last year went for him. Hopefully he rebounds this year and that talk will stop.

Individually he had a down year unless I'm completely misremembering.

I believe he significantly improved in most metrics from the last two years. Will try to find the YoY splits. Not looking to argue but I remember seeing an interview with him talking about how meaningful the gold glove/silver slugger was and he specifically referenced his improvement.

Quincey P. Morris said:

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Individually he had a down year unless I'm completely misremembering.

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I think he hit .260-something (with a good OBP) and had about 20-25 homers. That's not bad at all, but not as good as he was in 2022. The issue is that he hit 3-hole for us most of the year, where you'd like a guy to be more like .285 and 30 or more homers.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: We will be much more appreciative of Lowe this year when he is hitting in the 7 or 8 hole all year and hits .270 with 25 homers and gets on base at nearly .400. He will make the lineup so deep and he will also play GG-worthy 1B.