Jim Crane is going to brick this up isn't he.
***Official Houston Astros 2023-24 Offseason Thread*** [Staff Warning - OP]
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Last: 10 mo ago by Lonestar_Ag09
So this begs the question... is your concern based on something you've been told? I'm hoping not...texasaggie2015 said:The more this drags out the more I think Crane doesn't trust Dana as much as he should.agproducer said:
OK -- enough of this football and basketball talk -- where is our new manager Dana and Jim??
If it was up to Dana, Espada would have been made manager about a week ago.
My concern is Crane is going rogue. And now, instead of focusing on free agency, Dana is having to worry about who the manager is going to be on top of that.
So you're saying there's no chance?WES2006AG said:0.0%Wabs said:
What are the chances that Crane has been working to see if AJ is willing to come back? Maybe that's the holdup?
I think Crane is a seasoned/cold-blooded business man who demands alot of his organizations, especially those he tasks with leading them.
A GM has a variety of duties and it's hard to know in advance how well he'll perform at each of them (relative to Astros expectations) until he's put in the pressure cooker.
Brown didn't have any GM experience until we hired him to that role. Based on circumstantial evidence, it seems like a lot of the reason he got the nod is because of his eye for talent and ability to scout young prospects, as demonstrated by his work with Toronto and Atlanta. That's an important skill for a GM broadly and for the Astros specifically as we attempt to revamp a depleted farm.
But I tend to agree with those who are questioning if Crane trusts Brown with other aspects of being a GM. Some preliminary feels of Click part 2.
Crane worked well with Luhnow, who comes from a business consulting, 80 hours a week background. Who digs into every corner of the organization and is generally the smartest guy in the room, consistently putting pressure on performance improvement. It seems like Crane trusted Luhnow with things that he wasn't/isn't willing to trust Click/Brown with.
Is that why it doesn't seem like Brown is being given the reigns to "own" the manager search process? Who knows. I'm obviously just speculating.
A GM has a variety of duties and it's hard to know in advance how well he'll perform at each of them (relative to Astros expectations) until he's put in the pressure cooker.
Brown didn't have any GM experience until we hired him to that role. Based on circumstantial evidence, it seems like a lot of the reason he got the nod is because of his eye for talent and ability to scout young prospects, as demonstrated by his work with Toronto and Atlanta. That's an important skill for a GM broadly and for the Astros specifically as we attempt to revamp a depleted farm.
But I tend to agree with those who are questioning if Crane trusts Brown with other aspects of being a GM. Some preliminary feels of Click part 2.
Crane worked well with Luhnow, who comes from a business consulting, 80 hours a week background. Who digs into every corner of the organization and is generally the smartest guy in the room, consistently putting pressure on performance improvement. It seems like Crane trusted Luhnow with things that he wasn't/isn't willing to trust Click/Brown with.
Is that why it doesn't seem like Brown is being given the reigns to "own" the manager search process? Who knows. I'm obviously just speculating.
texasaggie2015 said:The more this drags out the more I think Crane doesn't trust Dana as much as he should.agproducer said:
OK -- enough of this football and basketball talk -- where is our new manager Dana and Jim??
If it was up to Dana, Espada would have been made manager about a week ago.
My concern is Crane is going rogue. And now, instead of focusing on free agency, Dana is having to worry about who the manager is going to be on top of that.
This is not encouraging. I'm beginning to get some Jerry Jones vibes.
Maybe.Deluxe said:
I think Crane is a seasoned/cold-blooded business man who demands alot of his organizations, especially those he tasks with leading them.
A GM has a variety of duties and it's hard to know in advance how well he'll perform at each of them (relative to Astros expectations) until he's put in the pressure cooker.
Brown didn't have any GM experience until we hired him to that role. Based on circumstantial evidence, it seems like a lot of the reason he got the nod is because of his eye for talent and ability to scout young prospects, as demonstrated by his work with Toronto and Atlanta. That's an important skill for a GM broadly and for the Astros specifically as we attempt to revamp a depleted farm.
But I tend to agree with those who are questioning if Crane trusts Brown with other aspects of being a GM. Some preliminary feels of Click part 2.
Crane worked well with Luhnow, who comes from a business consulting, 80 hours a week background. Who digs into every corner of the organization and is generally the smartest guy in the room, consistently putting pressure on performance improvement. It seems like he trusted Luhnow with things that he wasn't/isn't willing to trust Click/Brown with.
Is that why it doesn't seem like Brown is being given the reigns to "own" the manager search process? Who knows. I'm obviously just speculating.
We also don't have any idea of the discussion regarding job responsibilities between the two either.
It may be that Crane told Dana his job was to focus on player identification, analysis, development, and lineups while Crane was going to focus on the business side including negotiation / acquisition of identified players by Dana. Hiring a manager based on Dana and other exec input would still be in Crane's responsibility.
With Dana's limited business executive experience and Crane having it in spades, it wouldn't be surprising for their roles to align with their strengths / experience.
None. He won't go that route.Wabs said:
What are the chances that Crane has been working to see if AJ is willing to come back? Maybe that's the holdup?
Certainly possible. Whether it's a good or bad thing that Crane might be sweeping more and more of the GM responsibilities to himself post-Luhnow is up for debate I guess.AgLA06 said:
Maybe.
We also don't have any idea of the discussion regarding job responsibilities between the two either.
It may be that Crane told Dana his job was to focus on player identification, analysis, development, and lineups while Crane was going to focus on the business side including negotiation / acquisition of identified players by Dana. Hiring a manager based on Dana and other exec input would still be in Crane's responsibility.
Lonestar_Ag09 said:Thanks but wrong. I was 8-9 and remember sitting on the floor watching the games. It's actually one of the few things I do remember from childhood. My point is basketball is a third tier sport in most of this entire country and especially in Houston Texas. Football reigns supreme even compared to our two time world champion Astros.TarponChaser said:Lonestar_Ag09 said:W said:
Mount Rushmore for Houston
1. Altuve
2. Watt
3. Biggio
4. Hakeem or Earl
I think Biggio is more beloved and much more visible in Houston (after his playing days) than Hakeem (despite the titles) and Earl
if Watt can be on the list without a championship...so can Bidge
Nolan Ryan would be a strong candidate for the "state of Texas" Mount Rushmore as opposed to the City of Houston
This is the correct answer. You'll never convince me that anyone actually cares about basketball in this town. My only change would be to list #4 as Earl/Hakeem
But I absolutely think there top three are Altuve, Watt and Biggio
Edit to say, not saying people don't care about the Rockets. But those who do care more about Astros or Texans.
Just because you weren't born yet when the Rockets won. This town was insane over those championships. The Richmond Strip was a scene.
And how dumb of a comment when I included Earl Campbell who was BEFORE Hakeem
The NBA is third place today for sure but back then it was massive thanks to Jordan. Houston was every bit as insane over those titles back then as they have been today over the Astros.
The man bought a middling team in 2011 for $680M. Stripped it down, rebuilt it from scratch and now has a team worth $2.25B with 2 world series titles, and 7 straight ALCS appearances, and 8 ALDS trips or better in 12 seasons since.Pappy Van Winkle said:texasaggie2015 said:The more this drags out the more I think Crane doesn't trust Dana as much as he should.agproducer said:
OK -- enough of this football and basketball talk -- where is our new manager Dana and Jim??
If it was up to Dana, Espada would have been made manager about a week ago.
My concern is Crane is going rogue. And now, instead of focusing on free agency, Dana is having to worry about who the manager is going to be on top of that.
This is not encouraging. I'm beginning to get some Jerry Jones vibes.
Whether we like him or his methods, no one can argue what he's accomplished. And while we'd all love him to spend like the Yankees, he's spent a heck of a lot more and accomplished a heck of lot more than Drayton ever did. I don't know him, but in my limited experience with dealing with some of his interests, he's a calculating, analytical guy that is a great business man running solid organizations. Let's just wait to see what happens. Our timeline means nothing.
I mean if she was willing to run and be a mayor who cant reign forever. She has to see something about her district changing in the future or something and worrying she would lose re-election some time soon. Otherwise there is no benefits to being the mayor
The Mount Rushmore wasnt made then. Were talking about if we created something today in 2023. I just dont believe you can compare his popularity in 1993 carrying him in peoples minds eye to today.TarponChaser said:Lonestar_Ag09 said:Thanks but wrong. I was 8-9 and remember sitting on the floor watching the games. It's actually one of the few things I do remember from childhood. My point is basketball is a third tier sport in most of this entire country and especially in Houston Texas. Football reigns supreme even compared to our two time world champion Astros.TarponChaser said:Lonestar_Ag09 said:W said:
Mount Rushmore for Houston
1. Altuve
2. Watt
3. Biggio
4. Hakeem or Earl
I think Biggio is more beloved and much more visible in Houston (after his playing days) than Hakeem (despite the titles) and Earl
if Watt can be on the list without a championship...so can Bidge
Nolan Ryan would be a strong candidate for the "state of Texas" Mount Rushmore as opposed to the City of Houston
This is the correct answer. You'll never convince me that anyone actually cares about basketball in this town. My only change would be to list #4 as Earl/Hakeem
But I absolutely think there top three are Altuve, Watt and Biggio
Edit to say, not saying people don't care about the Rockets. But those who do care more about Astros or Texans.
Just because you weren't born yet when the Rockets won. This town was insane over those championships. The Richmond Strip was a scene.
And how dumb of a comment when I included Earl Campbell who was BEFORE Hakeem
The NBA is third place today for sure but back then it was massive thanks to Jordan. Houston was every bit as insane over those titles back then as they have been today over the Astros.
I dont know if that makes sense, in writing as it does in my head.
What Im saying in theory: Say we created something in say 2030; you have a top basketball player who won championships a long time ago and was popular during that span but the sport hasnt maintained that level of interest. Football breeds its own interest and JJ is the top face of that franchise and will be until someone wins a championship id bet. (Stroud?). Other than the 91-95 span when basketball was relevant baseball has always been a bigger deal and since that time it has only grown in popularity.
Houston Sports are:
1. Texans
2. Astros
3. Rockets
I bet you would be very hard pressed to find 1/10 people who would rank the rockets higher than either of the other
Therefore I think that popularity carries over
This is peak offseason.
Here is my anti-PC Comets story from 25 years ago before I go back to work.AustinCountyAg said:
Hypothetically if Sly Turner or SheJack actually created a mount rushmore sports for Houston somewhere it would be
Altuve
Hakeem
JJ
Cynthia Cooper
She doesn't deserve it, but you could bet your sweet ass she'd be on it.
A buddy of mine worked for the Rockets/Comets when they started.
The Comets won the first several titles, but that first year when it was all new, they realized they didn't have anyone to scrimmage against for the playoff title game against the NY LIberty as it was late August, and all of the female college players they had been scrimmaging against had gone back to their own campuses.
In desperation, they got together a group of male employees from the organization who had played some level of basketball. A group of 15 if I recall correctly. Most had played in high school only, some in junior college or at tiny D2 or D3 programs. Most were between 22 and 35 years old.
That group was told that the Comets needed a competitive scrimmage for the next few days to get ready for the Liberty. The men didn't practice, didn't even get a shootaround at the Summit before the scrimmage.
They used real WNBA refs and the scoreboard and the score clock. A buddy of mine from A&M was one of the men. He was probably 23-24 and had last played in high school.
Although the doors were locked and no one was allowed to film the game, the story got out quickly that evening.
The team of amateur men had BEAT THE EVER LIVING BEJESUS out of the Comets. My friend claims the score of the first scrimmage was 119-54.
The next morning when they scrimmaged again, they didn't use the scoreboard. They also didn't make it a real game - just "your on defense for the next 20 plays" "Now you're on offense for the next 20 plays, but no dunking".
I think the Rockets fanbase is larger than you might give it credit for. Just looking at the social media following for each of the big 3 teams in Houston and the Rockets blow the other 2 out of the water.
I understand that social media followers don't tell the whole story but it certainly can be used as a data point in the discussion.
I understand that social media followers don't tell the whole story but it certainly can be used as a data point in the discussion.
Fightin' Texas Aggie and Sam Houston State Bearkat
You think the rockets have only been popular from 91-95?
100% believe this. similar to the Olympic gold medal soccer team losing to a bunch of freshman and sophomores who were in high school.......yet women should be allowed to compete against men. so stupidThe Porkchop Express said:Here is my anti-PC Comets story from 25 years ago before I go back to work.AustinCountyAg said:
Hypothetically if Sly Turner or SheJack actually created a mount rushmore sports for Houston somewhere it would be
Altuve
Hakeem
JJ
Cynthia Cooper
She doesn't deserve it, but you could bet your sweet ass she'd be on it.
A buddy of mine worked for the Rockets/Comets when they started.
The Comets won the first several titles, but that first year when it was all new, they realized they didn't have anyone to scrimmage against for the playoff title game against the NY LIberty as it was late August, and all of the female college players they had been scrimmaging against had gone back to their own campuses.
In desperation, they got together a group of male employees from the organization who had played some level of basketball. A group of 15 if I recall correctly. Most had played in high school only, some in junior college or at tiny D2 or D3 programs. Most were between 22 and 35 years old.
That group was told that the Comets needed a competitive scrimmage for the next few days to get ready for the Liberty. The men didn't practice, didn't even get a shootaround at the Summit before the scrimmage.
They used real WNBA refs and the scoreboard and the score clock. A buddy of mine from A&M was one of the men. He was probably 23-24 and had last played in high school.
Although the doors were locked and no one was allowed to film the game, the story got out quickly that evening.
The team of amateur men had BEAT THE EVER LIVING BEJESUS out of the Comets. My friend claims the score of the first scrimmage was 119-54.
The next morning when they scrimmaged again, they didn't use the scoreboard. They also didn't make it a real game - just "your on defense for the next 20 plays" "Now you're on offense for the next 20 plays, but no dunking".
Pappy Van Winkle said:texasaggie2015 said:The more this drags out the more I think Crane doesn't trust Dana as much as he should.agproducer said:
OK -- enough of this football and basketball talk -- where is our new manager Dana and Jim??
If it was up to Dana, Espada would have been made manager about a week ago.
My concern is Crane is going rogue. And now, instead of focusing on free agency, Dana is having to worry about who the manager is going to be on top of that.
This is not encouraging. I'm beginning to get some Jerry Jones vibes.
This has been a common sentiment since JL and AJ were fired yet Crane has consistently made quality hires since then.
I expect nothing different this time around.
Crane seems to be looking for a name for manager.
Dusty was a name.
This is entertainment after all. It is a business too so sure, Joe, go see what you can get and then we'll talk.
Outside of this board and other diehards does the fanbase even know Joe Espada existed?
Dusty was a name.
This is entertainment after all. It is a business too so sure, Joe, go see what you can get and then we'll talk.
Outside of this board and other diehards does the fanbase even know Joe Espada existed?
I was a big Rockets fan in the 80s-90s (watched 75-80% of the games on TV and attended dozens of games in person over the years at The Summit)... but I have neither watched a Rockets game nor even paid attention to them much since the late 90s. I can't pinpoint one thing specifically that caused me to lose interest... but it was probably a combination of several factors.
1) The players I identified with (Dream, Glide, and even Sir Chuck) were gone and they became less competitive
2) A huge drop-off in my interest in the game of basketball (especially the pro game)
3) Other things at the time I was focusing on in my life (sports and non-sports)
4) Visceral hatred of Les Alexander for killing our chances of getting the NHL in Houston during the mid-late 90s
While at one point in my life I could have told you the names of all the star players on every NBA team... today I wouldn't be able to even name all the teams in the league, much less identify a single player on a single team by name and face other than LeBron James... and that's including the Rockets.
The only extent to which I care about the Rockets today is in regard to their impact on Tillman's potential interest/ability in bringing the NHL to Houston.
1) The players I identified with (Dream, Glide, and even Sir Chuck) were gone and they became less competitive
2) A huge drop-off in my interest in the game of basketball (especially the pro game)
3) Other things at the time I was focusing on in my life (sports and non-sports)
4) Visceral hatred of Les Alexander for killing our chances of getting the NHL in Houston during the mid-late 90s
While at one point in my life I could have told you the names of all the star players on every NBA team... today I wouldn't be able to even name all the teams in the league, much less identify a single player on a single team by name and face other than LeBron James... and that's including the Rockets.
The only extent to which I care about the Rockets today is in regard to their impact on Tillman's potential interest/ability in bringing the NHL to Houston.
Feel like most casual baseball fans maybe name 5 managers in the league as it isBadAggie said:
Crane seems to be looking for a name for manager.
Dusty was a name.
This is entertainment after all. It is a business too so sure, Joe, go see what you can get and then we'll talk.
Outside of this board and other diehards does the fanbase even know Joe Espada existed?
If Crane keeps jacking up ticket prices with the same pitiful results at home, he will eventually have bigger problems to deal with.BadAggie said:
Crane seems to be looking for a name for manager.
Dusty was a name.
This is entertainment after all. It is a business too so sure, Joe, go see what you can get and then we'll talk.
Outside of this board and other diehards does the fanbase even know Joe Espada existed?
Living in Houston, I absolutely NEVER see anyone wearing Rockets gear. Astros and Texans gear all the time.
I think most casual fans couldn't name any manager outside of the home town team.wangus12 said:Feel like most casual baseball fans maybe name 5 managers in the league as it isBadAggie said:
Crane seems to be looking for a name for manager.
Dusty was a name.
This is entertainment after all. It is a business too so sure, Joe, go see what you can get and then we'll talk.
Outside of this board and other diehards does the fanbase even know Joe Espada existed?
bearkatag15 said:
I think the Rockets fanbase is larger than you might give it credit for. Just looking at the social media following for each of the big 3 teams in Houston and the Rockets blow the other 2 out of the water.
I understand that social media followers don't tell the whole story but it certainly can be used as a data point in the discussion.
The NBA, as a whole, owns social media. They absolutely kill it. Social media interaction is probably not a good representative of a fan base.
SIAP
Just now on #LateHits @espn975, @Bnightengale told me he doesnt believe Brad Ausmus is a serious contender for the #Astros managerial job. That his name has disappeared lately from those conversations.
— Patrick Creighton (@PCreighton1) November 10, 2023
Said he thinks the job will ultimately be Espada's.
Fightin' Texas Aggie and Sam Houston State Bearkat
I will say its been almost fairly obvious that Espada is the main candidate. He hasn't interviewed elsewhere. I believe they are probably just working final contract details.bearkatag15 said:
SIAPJust now on #LateHits @espn975, @Bnightengale told me he doesnt believe Brad Ausmus is a serious contender for the #Astros managerial job. That his name has disappeared lately from those conversations.
— Patrick Creighton (@PCreighton1) November 10, 2023
Said he thinks the job will ultimately be Espada's.
You're texagsing wrong….
What's happening is irrelevant. We're taking too long and it's because cranes an idiot and meddling. Oh and he loves bagwell and his bad advice. If we do sign him, we'll then likely have to complain that we paid too much so can't afford players. Or it took too long and we lost momentum. Or we'll start *****ing about who we extend, sign, don't extend, etc.
What's happening is irrelevant. We're taking too long and it's because cranes an idiot and meddling. Oh and he loves bagwell and his bad advice. If we do sign him, we'll then likely have to complain that we paid too much so can't afford players. Or it took too long and we lost momentum. Or we'll start *****ing about who we extend, sign, don't extend, etc.
My gosh Puma was a beast at Rice.
Lance Berkman’s 1997 season at Rice is laugh out loud funny pic.twitter.com/T318d1t1Cw
— Ben Upton (@Ben_Upton5) November 10, 2023
Fightin' Texas Aggie and Sam Houston State Bearkat
Obviously before the exit speed limitations on aluminum bats.
Those drop 5s with the 2-3/4 barrel were unreal. I still have one somewhere. I need to bust it out.
I used to know an Ag who's son was a decent HS player. Played PG for 3A Argyle, and made all-district IIRC. But like most kids at a school like that he was a little too small and a little too slow for college. So the kid goes to A&M and ends up on the all-male scout team for Blair's Lady Aggie basketball team that won the national title.
That team playing a bunch of guys who were decent in HS couldn't stay within 30 of the guys.
That team playing a bunch of guys who were decent in HS couldn't stay within 30 of the guys.
I had a buddy who was there right before the title. He was a middling player from a decent suburb high school. He wasn't allowed to jump, otherwise, he'd block all their shots. There are certain differences that can't be overcome.
The Porkchop Express said:Here is my anti-PC Comets story from 25 years ago before I go back to work.AustinCountyAg said:
Hypothetically if Sly Turner or SheJack actually created a mount rushmore sports for Houston somewhere it would be
Altuve
Hakeem
JJ
Cynthia Cooper
She doesn't deserve it, but you could bet your sweet ass she'd be on it.
A buddy of mine worked for the Rockets/Comets when they started.
The Comets won the first several titles, but that first year when it was all new, they realized they didn't have anyone to scrimmage against for the playoff title game against the NY LIberty as it was late August, and all of the female college players they had been scrimmaging against had gone back to their own campuses.
In desperation, they got together a group of male employees from the organization who had played some level of basketball. A group of 15 if I recall correctly. Most had played in high school only, some in junior college or at tiny D2 or D3 programs. Most were between 22 and 35 years old.
That group was told that the Comets needed a competitive scrimmage for the next few days to get ready for the Liberty. The men didn't practice, didn't even get a shootaround at the Summit before the scrimmage.
They used real WNBA refs and the scoreboard and the score clock. A buddy of mine from A&M was one of the men. He was probably 23-24 and had last played in high school.
Although the doors were locked and no one was allowed to film the game, the story got out quickly that evening.
The team of amateur men had BEAT THE EVER LIVING BEJESUS out of the Comets. My friend claims the score of the first scrimmage was 119-54.
The next morning when they scrimmaged again, they didn't use the scoreboard. They also didn't make it a real game - just "your on defense for the next 20 plays" "Now you're on offense for the next 20 plays, but no dunking".
Didn't Cynthia cooper have an interview that she said something to the effect that pretty much a guys ymca team could beat a wnba team?
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