Just because the game is evolving doesn't mean its a positive for the fans. He isn't wrong about that. Three-true-outcome hitting and defensive shifts are evolutions of the game and strategy and fans generally hate both of those things. Rules exist to shape the game into a product that fans enjoy. Whatever Manfred tries to do will likely be the wrong answer, but the MLB rulebook isn't the Constitution. The League is free to change it however they want.JDUB08AG said:
Wtf does Manfred hope to achieve? Mandating a starting rotation? They must pitch at least 4 innings to avoid an opener scenario? Part of this is evolution of the game and strategy.
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It's not going to be a popular opinion, but I'm just going to say it: Manfred is there to be unpopular as a hoplite for the owners, but he's doing what needs to be done to prepare the game to survive and grow in the streaming era/attention economy.
The pitch clock and stealing rules triggered old-timers but it was objectively great for viewership and for returning the game to ways in which it used to be better than it had become. I understand the desire to do the same with pitching. One can't complain that baseball doesn't market its stars but also hate that it's considering re-elevating the position that has historically produced some of its best, the starting pitcher.
Average fans don't care about a bullpen game and they don't attach to the six faces rotating in and out.
Now as to how you enforce it, I'm ambivalent and do see serious issues with the lose-the-DH idea.
If he finds a way to do it well and eventually manages to eliminate the RSNs and expand by two teams, along with the pitch clock, universal DH (I was iffy at first but it's been far better to watch than pitchers "hitting"), draft lottery, and new rules, I don't know how you couldn't say he'll have been a remarkably effective commissioner in ways that baseball needed at the time he was there, regardless of his personal popularity.
The pitch clock and stealing rules triggered old-timers but it was objectively great for viewership and for returning the game to ways in which it used to be better than it had become. I understand the desire to do the same with pitching. One can't complain that baseball doesn't market its stars but also hate that it's considering re-elevating the position that has historically produced some of its best, the starting pitcher.
Average fans don't care about a bullpen game and they don't attach to the six faces rotating in and out.
Now as to how you enforce it, I'm ambivalent and do see serious issues with the lose-the-DH idea.
If he finds a way to do it well and eventually manages to eliminate the RSNs and expand by two teams, along with the pitch clock, universal DH (I was iffy at first but it's been far better to watch than pitchers "hitting"), draft lottery, and new rules, I don't know how you couldn't say he'll have been a remarkably effective commissioner in ways that baseball needed at the time he was there, regardless of his personal popularity.
I'm here for the start of our decent into BlernsballChrundle the Great said:MLB Commissioner Rob Manfred said today that making the starting pitcher prominent again is a priority for the league: “There’s a lot of fans who feel like the change from ‘let’s see who today’s pitching matchup is' to ‘who’s the opener today’ has not been a positive one.”
— Jesse Rogers (@JesseRogersESPN) October 27, 2023
Don't worry Rob is coming to legislatively force starting pitchers
I agree its not the constitution, but my concern is that overengineering a season that involves 162 games to try and force fan interest is a dangerous concept - there are going to be countless boring games no matter what you do. I'm not against rule changes or deviations from past precedent, but this one really catches my attention because BP development and acquisition is one of the most incredibly difficult, powerful and impactful things a team can do.Red Five said:Just because the game is evolving doesn't mean its a positive for the fans. He isn't wrong about that. Three-true-outcome hitting and defensive shifts are evolutions of the game and strategy and fans generally hate both of those things. Rules exist to shape the game into a product that fans enjoy. Whatever Manfred tries to do will likely be the wrong answer, but the MLB rulebook isn't the Constitution. The League is free to change it however they want.JDUB08AG said:
Wtf does Manfred hope to achieve? Mandating a starting rotation? They must pitch at least 4 innings to avoid an opener scenario? Part of this is evolution of the game and strategy.
Manfred is 3 years too late. Baseball has already taken care of this issue itself.Chrundle the Great said:MLB Commissioner Rob Manfred said today that making the starting pitcher prominent again is a priority for the league: “There’s a lot of fans who feel like the change from ‘let’s see who today’s pitching matchup is' to ‘who’s the opener today’ has not been a positive one.”
— Jesse Rogers (@JesseRogersESPN) October 27, 2023
Don't worry Rob is coming to legislatively force starting pitchers
On brand for Manfred, though.
You could require teams to always have starters posted for the next five games with certain penalties in place for scratching a starter (with exceptions, of course). If teams want to use relievers to start a game, they'd have to post them in advance, which would dictate how they use their pen leading up to those games.
Or, you could force teams to designate starting and relief pitchers with relief pitchers not eligible to start games and starters not eligible for relief outings. You'd have to put rules in place around the designations, as there are swing guys that do both throughout the season. Something like a change in designation requires four completed team games before it could be changed again. So if you switch a reliever to a starter for a spot start, he's a starter until four games are completed.
I'm not opposed to something like this. It would require a lot of thought, as it's easy to poke holes in these solutions.
Or, you could force teams to designate starting and relief pitchers with relief pitchers not eligible to start games and starters not eligible for relief outings. You'd have to put rules in place around the designations, as there are swing guys that do both throughout the season. Something like a change in designation requires four completed team games before it could be changed again. So if you switch a reliever to a starter for a spot start, he's a starter until four games are completed.
I'm not opposed to something like this. It would require a lot of thought, as it's easy to poke holes in these solutions.
Yes, agree the rule changes for this season have largely been good. Trying to make starters go longer I fear will have unintended consequences (or maybe they are intended). Namely that aces will be even more of a premium that wind up in the hands of the big market clubs.
If they limit the number of pitchers to 12 then could see more multi inning relievers emerging. I'm surprised more teams don't do that anyway rather than having guys go back to back days where n a regular basis.
If they limit the number of pitchers to 12 then could see more multi inning relievers emerging. I'm surprised more teams don't do that anyway rather than having guys go back to back days where n a regular basis.
The problem with this stupid idea from Manfred is at the end of the season, in a tight division race, such as the Astros were this season, you really need a win and your starter clearly doesn't have it. If there are inning requirements, like Manfred wants you can't pull that guy to give yourself a chance to win the game.iBrad said:
You could require teams to always have starters posted for the next five games with certain penalties in place for scratching a starter (with exceptions, of course). If teams want to use relievers to start a game, they'd have to post them in advance, which would dictate how they use their pen leading up to those games.
Or, you could force teams to designate starting and relief pitchers with relief pitchers not eligible to start games and starters not eligible for relief outings. You'd have to put rules in place around the designations, as there are swing guys that do both throughout the season. Something like a change in designation requires four completed team games before it could be changed again. So if you switch a reliever to a starter for a spot start, he's a starter until four games are completed.
I'm not opposed to something like this. It would require a lot of thought, as it's easy to poke holes in these solutions.
That's why a starter inning minimum rule is stupid. Not to mention baseball has largely gone away from the opener.
Also, let's be real, starting pitching isn't the real reason people want to watch - people are watching for offense.
texasaggie2015 said:
I plan to hit Wrigley in April for Astros/Cubs and then shoot up to Milwaukee to see Brewers/Yankees.
And then I'll go to San Diego for Astros/Padres in September.
Anyone been to either of those?
Petco is my favorite stadium. Tons of open air bars/restaurants within walking distance in the area to pregame at.
texasaggie2015 said:
I plan to hit Wrigley in April for Astros/Cubs and then shoot up to Milwaukee to see Brewers/Yankees.
And then I'll go to San Diego for Astros/Padres in September.
Anyone been to either of those?
This past September I hit up Wrigley Miller Park and Comiskey Park all within a 4-day period Miller Park really surprised me and turned into one of my top favorite parks in the entire league Wrigley is Wrigley very nostalgic always a great time sight lines are pretty crappy overall though and Comiskey is nothing special in my opinion. Sorry for the run on sentences talk to text
Im looking for Ray Finkle.... and a clean pair of shorts. Im just a very big Finkle fan. This is my Graceland, sir.
MAGA
MAGA
Exactly, or is that truly want Manfred wants? All the stars going to the big market teamsMaxPower said:
Yes, agree the rule changes for this season have largely been good. Trying to make starters go longer I fear will have unintended consequences (or maybe they are intended). Namely that aces will be even more of a premium that wind up in the hands of the big market clubs.
If they limit the number of pitchers to 12 then could see more multi inning relievers emerging. I'm surprised more teams don't do that anyway rather than having guys go back to back days where n a regular basis.
Bye bye to the lower level teams running bullpen games at the back end of their rotation and those running a lower budget rotation by substituting pricey starters with a handful of good bullpen arms. Good starters already cost a ton and this will only drive the price up.
Apparently, there has been terrible upkeep and no upgrades over the last 20 years.Mr.Bond said:texasaggie2015 said:
I plan to hit Wrigley in April for Astros/Cubs and then shoot up to Milwaukee to see Brewers/Yankees.
And then I'll go to San Diego for Astros/Padres in September.
Anyone been to either of those?
This past September I hit up Wrigley Miller Park and Comiskey Park all within a 4-day period Miller Park really surprised me and turned into one of my top favorite parks in the entire league Wrigley is Wrigley very nostalgic always a great time sight lines are pretty crappy overall though and Comiskey is nothing special in my opinion. Sorry for the run on sentences talk to text
Farmer1906 said:Apparently, there has been terrible upkeep and no upgrades over the last 20 years.Mr.Bond said:texasaggie2015 said:
I plan to hit Wrigley in April for Astros/Cubs and then shoot up to Milwaukee to see Brewers/Yankees.
And then I'll go to San Diego for Astros/Padres in September.
Anyone been to either of those?
This past September I hit up Wrigley Miller Park and Comiskey Park all within a 4-day period Miller Park really surprised me and turned into one of my top favorite parks in the entire league Wrigley is Wrigley very nostalgic always a great time sight lines are pretty crappy overall though and Comiskey is nothing special in my opinion. Sorry for the run on sentences talk to text
I did not sense that at all the Concourse was incredibly clean and modern looking the food and drink options were great there's also a awesome area for kids as well
Im looking for Ray Finkle.... and a clean pair of shorts. Im just a very big Finkle fan. This is my Graceland, sir.
MAGA
MAGA
Anyays...irish pete ag06 said:
Got a nice little thought here:
What if I told you we were trading for a starting pitcher who had these metrics:
- 10.3 K/9
- 3.2 BB/9
- 52% Ground ball rate
What would you think about them, irrelevant to what we gave up to get him?
This is Hunter Brown.
I had no idea he put up peripherals like that. What killed him this year was a 21% HR/FB ratio along with a BABIP 13% higher than league average.
Now he did give up a lot of hard contact and barrels which can inflate those numbers, but even with that those number are very likely to drop.
Even if Hunter pitched the exact same his ERA could easily drop into the mid to low 4s.
Outside of the sinker usage, it's actually uncanny how similar he and Framber are.
I think Hunter is going to have a much better year next year. I think he will have a below 4 ERA next year.irish pete ag06 said:Anyays...irish pete ag06 said:
Got a nice little thought here:
What if I told you we were trading for a starting pitcher who had these metrics:
- 10.3 K/9
- 3.2 BB/9
- 52% Ground ball rate
What would you think about them, irrelevant to what we gave up to get him?
This is Hunter Brown.
I had no idea he put up peripherals like that. What killed him this year was a 21% HR/FB ratio along with a BABIP 13% higher than league average.
Now he did give up a lot of hard contact and barrels which can inflate those numbers, but even with that those number are very likely to drop.
Even if Hunter pitched the exact same his ERA could easily drop into the mid to low 4s.
Outside of the sinker usage, it's actually uncanny how similar he and Framber are.
Deluxe said:
What would you do with Meyers this year?
1) Continue to work him into the regular OF rotation
2) Keep him around as cheap depth/insurance
3) Work the phones and see if there's a decent arm or prospect we could deal him for
I would lean toward option 3. Other than his "jump" he gets on fly balls he really seems to lack instincts for the game. I don't think there are stats that can capture what seems to be apparent to the eye, but it seems he overindexed in '23 on things like bad routes, knowing where to throw the ball and situational base running. He looks like a good ball player but does play like one IMO.
They track that. He was above average there and pretty much identical to Dubon. Chas is the only one who had trouble running a direct route to the ball last season, but he made up for it with reaction and burst.iamtheglove said:Deluxe said:
What would you do with Meyers this year?
1) Continue to work him into the regular OF rotation
2) Keep him around as cheap depth/insurance
3) Work the phones and see if there's a decent arm or prospect we could deal him for
I would lean toward option 3. Other than his "jump" he gets on fly balls he really seems to lack instincts for the game. I don't think there are stats that can capture what seems to be apparent to the eye, but it seems he overindexed in '23 on things like bad routes, knowing where to throw the ball and situational base running. He looks like a good ball player but does play like one IMO.
Any new updates on the manager front?
I dont agree with this. Well, I agree with the verbage but not the effect.Quote:
Not to mention baseball has largely gone away from the opener
Openers have mostly gone away. However the idea of a bull pen day is very much here. And thats an opener to an extreme. Pretty much everyone does that. Starters get nicked. Starters go down for long periods. And it makes a messy day for the offense when they are never seeing the same arm more than once..
I'm pretty sure the Giants used Jakob Junis, Ross Stripling, Sean Manaea, and even a couple others as glorified long openers for long stretches of the season. And I know for a fact the Rays used several.
Haven't really heard anything new. This is being kept pretty close to the vest. I would still be very surprised if it's Ausmus and if I had to guess today.. I think it will be Espada. But that's just my hunch.stoneca said:
Any new updates on the manager front?
What's your thoughts on the Tampa Bay coach that has a history with our organization?texasaggie2015 said:Haven't really heard anything new. This is being kept pretty close to the vest. I would still be very surprised if it's Ausmus and if I had to guess today.. I think it will be Espada. But that's just my hunch.stoneca said:
Any new updates on the manager front?
So are we not even in the running for Counsell? Kind of hard to believe there wouldn't be mutual interest
Rodney Linares, right? I honestly don't have an opinion. He's well respected. I saw the report that he's a candidate but he hasn't been mentioned to me personally
I've gone to 5 Astro games at Wrigley. Always a picture perfect experience althought not very friendly fans if you wear your gear. Get there early and soak up the sun.texasaggie2015 said:
I plan to hit Wrigley in April for Astros/Cubs and then shoot up to Milwaukee to see Brewers/Yankees.
And then I'll go to San Diego for Astros/Padres in September.
Anyone been to either of those?
San Diego is the great hidden gem of MLB stadiums. In downtown, incorporates a lot of old buildings, and you have to go to the gift shop out in left field because there's a little door at the back of it that puts you right behind the fence at ground level. if LF is playing deep or if there's a ball hit out there, it's like being right in the action.
From what I was told, we would absolutely be interested in him but the general belief across the industry is that he ends up in New York to manage the MetsSex Panther said:
So are we not even in the running for Counsell? Kind of hard to believe there wouldn't be mutual interest
JDUB08AG said:
Wtf does Manfred hope to achieve? Mandating a starting rotation? They must pitch at least 4 innings to avoid an opener scenario? Part of this is evolution of the game and strategy.
He probably has a nice Fidel Castro action figure set
Are the Astros, more specific, Dana high on Walt Weiss? Or is that just a name being thrown around like Counsell?
I think that's just speculation based on Dana's relationship with Weiss. I heard he would likely be a candidate, but that's about it.
More specifically, he ends up with Stearns at the Mets.texasaggie2015 said:From what I was told, we would absolutely be interested in him but the general belief across the industry is that he ends up in New York to manage the MetsSex Panther said:
So are we not even in the running for Counsell? Kind of hard to believe there wouldn't be mutual interest
Yankees fans bttching about umps. How quaint.
Manfred needs to worry about one thing and one thing only....implementing robo umps. That's the list.BadAggie said:
Yankees fans bttching about umps. How quaint.
Getting rid of local tv blackoutsProsperdick said:Manfred needs to worry about one thing and one thing only....implementing robo umps. That's the list.BadAggie said:
Yankees fans bttching about umps. How quaint.
This is not going to happen, because07ag said:Getting rid of local tv blackoutsProsperdick said:Manfred needs to worry about one thing and one thing only....implementing robo umps. That's the list.BadAggie said:
Yankees fans bttching about umps. How quaint.
The Verdugo article got me thinking about potential cheap 2024 rentals. I got a perfect name - Austin Meadows. He has basically been a complete no-show for Detroit the last 2 seasons thanks to a mix of injury, COVID, and mental health problems. Once again, TB dominates a trade after a monster year for Parades. I am sure Detroit is ready to move on from him. From 2019-2022 he is 20th in all of baseball in wRC+ vs RHP. In that 4 year snapshot, he's ahead of some big-time lefty bats like Ohtani, Ramirez, Schwarber, Yelich, Olson, Nimmo, Seager, Reynolds, etc. Next year is his age-29 season. He screams low-med risk, high reward. He'd help keep payroll down so Crane/Brown can spend it on pitching.
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