All I do is Nguyen said:

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Fair point. Either way I am still done with Framber and him being a headcase. I am not saying he needs to be repalced but maybe move him down the rotation to 3/4 and move Garcia or LMC up IF they're healthy. If JP or HB can show they can be solid starter I'd like them to move into the 2 spot as well

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That's a big IF.

Deluxe said:

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What would you do with Meyers this year?

1) Continue to work him into the regular OF rotation

2) Keep him around as cheap depth/insurance

3) Work the phones and see if there's a decent arm or prospect we could deal him for

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Depends on how I can get in FA and what I can get in a trade.

I have no problem with him being the 4th OFer, spot platoon starter (vs LHP), CF "closer", and pinch runner. He can't take away from Chas being the everyday guy.

Dubon can fill that role too, but he's also needed in the INF and he's not as good defensively.

Deluxe said:

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I'm 100% in "give Framber the benefit of the doubt" mode. He's earned it.

IMO his struggles down the stretch were much much more due to fatigue and corresponding loss of command than mental variability.

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He "struggled" to a top 12 SP WAR in baseball, ahead of guys like Monty, Snell, Castillo, & Verlander.

I think his manager could have helped him out a little. Look at the times through the order #s.
1st Time: 2.50 ERA, .246 wOBA, 72.0 IP
2nd Time: 2.79 ERA, .280 wOBA, 67.2 IP
3rd Time: 5.30 ERA, .335 wOBA, 52.2 IP
4th Time: 6.35 ERA, .389 wOBA, 5.2 IP

Only Logan Webb faced more batters in the 7th or beyond as a SP.

Astros Only 7th Inning+
Valdez - 98 Batters Faced, 18 Games
Verlander - 47, 9
France - 37, 9
Brown - 25, 7
Bielak - 12, 3
Javier - 3, 1
Garcia - 3, 1

Farmer1906 said:

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Deluxe said:

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I'm 100% in "give Framber the benefit of the doubt" mode. He's earned it.

IMO his struggles down the stretch were much much more due to fatigue and corresponding loss of command than mental variability.

---

He "struggled" to a top 12 SP WAR in baseball, ahead of guys like Monty, Snell, Castillo, & Verlander.

I think his manager could have helped him out a little. Look at the times through the order #s.
1st Time: 2.50 ERA, .246 wOBA, 72.0 IP
2nd Time: 2.79 ERA, .280 wOBA, 67.2 IP
3rd Time: 5.30 ERA, .335 wOBA, 52.2 IP
4th Time: 6.35 ERA, .389 wOBA, 5.2 IP

Only Logan Webb faced more batters in the 7th or beyond as a SP.

Astros Only 7th Inning+
Valdez - 98 Batters Faced, 18 Games
Verlander - 47, 9
France - 37, 9
Brown - 25, 7
Bielak - 12, 3
Javier - 3, 1
Garcia - 3, 1

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I'd like to think that the returns of Garcia and McCullers (whenever that happens) could greatly help the bullpen workload. Whether it is Urquidy and Garcia, or whoever, having some bridge guys that pitch more than one inning could help reduce all those 20-pitch appearances (Maton, for example) and Framber as he gets tired in the later innings.

Farmer1906 said:

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Deluxe said:

---

What would you do with Meyers this year?

1) Continue to work him into the regular OF rotation

2) Keep him around as cheap depth/insurance

3) Work the phones and see if there's a decent arm or prospect we could deal him for

---

Depends on how I can get in FA and what I can get in a trade.

I have no problem with him being the 4th OFer, spot platoon starter (vs LHP), CF "closer", and pinch runner. He can't take away from Chas being the everyday guy.

Dubon can fill that role too, but he's also needed in the INF and he's not as good defensively.

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Yea. Was mainly wondering your take about Jake in the context of us (hypothetically) not addressing LF this offseason. Would we feel ok going into the year with Jake in the regular starting rotation?

It's hard to make general projections rn because there's quite a few variables that I'm not sure we have set answers to.

How many games is Yordan going to play LF? Ketch says we want him out there more going forward. Does that mean 50 games? 100 games? Obviously it depends on his health to some extent.

The more Yordan plays LF, the more innings Chas will be in CF and the fewer innings for Dubon/Meyers in CF. Optimally, Chas will be in CF alot anyway.

How many games will Diaz catch this year? My guess is around 100. That means we need to get him in the lineup at 1B/DH 50+ times. Yordan probly bumps to LF in those circumstances so that Abreu/Diaz can shuffle 1B/DH.

Lots of little question that could swing how we think about needs.

FrioAg 00 said:

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This team need a second reliable Ace behind JV, and Framber isn't it. I really wanted it to be Javi or Hunter, but they do not appear ready either.

The pen is good. The bats need tweaks, but are good overall.

I'd trade 2-3 if the higher ceiling young bats for one better, more reliable bat.

But I'd go all in for 1 additional SP to be out #2 spot in the playoffs.

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The only player I can come up with as available and a possible upgrade is Snell. The market value projection on spotrac shows 5/117 M. Next season will be age 31 season and Snell can't consistently go deep in games.

I don't see Crane being in on him.

Deluxe said:

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Farmer1906 said:

---

Deluxe said:

---

What would you do with Meyers this year?

1) Continue to work him into the regular OF rotation

2) Keep him around as cheap depth/insurance

3) Work the phones and see if there's a decent arm or prospect we could deal him for

---

Depends on how I can get in FA and what I can get in a trade.

I have no problem with him being the 4th OFer, spot platoon starter (vs LHP), CF "closer", and pinch runner. He can't take away from Chas being the everyday guy.

Dubon can fill that role too, but he's also needed in the INF and he's not as good defensively.

---

Yea. Was mainly wondering your take about Jake in the context of us (hypothetically) not addressing LF this offseason. Would we feel ok going into the year with Jake in the regular starting rotation?

It's hard to make general projections rn because there's quite a few variables that I'm not sure we have set answers to.

How many games is Yordan going to play LF? Ketch says we want him out there more going forward. Does that mean 50 games? 100 games? Obviously it depends on his health to some extent.

The more Yordan plays LF, the more innings Chas will be in CF and the fewer innings for Dubon/Meyers in CF. Optimally, Chas will be in CF alot anyway.

How many games will Diaz catch this year? My guess is around 100. That means we need to get him in the lineup at 1B/DH 50+ times. Yordan probly bumps to LF in those circumstances so that Abreu/Diaz can shuffle 1B/DH.

Lots of little question that could swing how we think about needs.

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In my mind, Jake's ideal is what I laid out. That should be his role regardless of what we do in LF. There is room for him either way. If the idea is he should play more vs righties since we didn't add a lefty OFer, then I am against it.

FrioAg 00 said:

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This team need a second reliable Ace behind JV, and Framber isn't it. I really wanted it to be Javi or Hunter, but they do not appear ready either.

The pen is good. The bats need tweaks, but are good overall.

I'd trade 2-3 if the higher ceiling young bats for one better, more reliable bat.

But I'd go all in for 1 additional SP to be out #2 spot in the playoffs.

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Both Javi and Hunter are young. Last season was Hunter's first full MLB season too.

It would be nice to see Hunter take a step forward next season. I happen to think he will.

Javi found his mechanics the last two months of the season. I think he'll be fine next season and look closer to 2022 than 2023.

I think it's going to be hard to find a true ace type for next season that you're not going to have to give a ton up for.

Farmer1906 said:

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A handful of Alex Verdugo trade articles popped up over the last few days, but I think it mainly stems from the MLB Trade Rumors one.

Looking For A Match In An Alex Verdugo Trade

Quote:

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Red Sox outfielder Alex Verdugo saw his name floated around the trade deadline as a potential trade candidate, and though no trade ultimately came together, it's worth noting that the club did field interest from clubs including both the Yankees and Astros regarding Verdugo at the deadline. With new chief baseball officer Craig Breslow now in place, the club's focus figures to turn toward the offseason proper, and Verdugo once again makes sense as a trade candidate.

After all, the club has plenty of quality outfield options. Masataka Yoshida is entrenched in left field after a strong first stateside campaign, while the likes of Jarren Duran, Wilyer Abreu, and Ceddanne Rafaela all represent solid young outfield options that the Red Sox have previously expressed belief in. Of that quartet, only Rafaela bats right-handed, so Verdugo's presence does little to balance out the club's heavily left-handed outfield mix. With just one year of team control remaining before Verdugo hits free agency, the 27-year-old sticks out as a prime trade candidate for a Boston club looking to pull itself back into contention after back-to-back last place finishes in the AL East.

That's not to say Verdugo isn't a quality player in his own right, of course. He's been a roughly league average bat in each of the past three seasons, slashing .278/.334/.417 with a wRC+ of 102 since the start of the 2021 campaign. He paired that average offensive with above-average defense in right field this year, as he posted a solid +1 Outs Above Average alongside a more impressive +9 Defensive Runs Saved. Only Fernando Tatis Jr. had a higher DRS in right field this year, per Fielding Bible.


...

Best Fits:

• Astros: Houston was one of the teams linked to the Red Sox at the trade deadline, and it's easy to see why given the club's desire to acquire a left-handed outfielder to complement Jake Meyers and Chas McCormick, given the uncertain health situation of veteran Michael Brantley at the time. It stands to reason that the club's interest in Verdugo would continue into this offseason, with Brantley set to hit free agency and leave an opening in the club's left field mix. Verdugo would provide quality defense in left field and complement the right-handed bats of McCormick and Meyers alongside fellow lefty Kyle Tucker, who figures to play every day in right.

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Verdugo has been an everyday player, but his numbers dictate he should be heavily platooned for.

wRC+ vs LHP / RHP
2021 - 47 / 106
2022 - 94 / 102
2023 - 67 / 98

He doesn't exactly jump off the page, but he should be fairly cheap to trade for and only cost around 9 M for 2024.

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I think my problem is he's just another 1 year rental. If you can get him to agree to sign before a trade, I'm good with it.

Him, Chaz, Doubon, Jake, and Tucker is a great outfield situation and plenty of opportunities to PH or PR late in games. However, it's probably 1 more player than we really need for 3 -4 spots. I guess with Doubon being an IF / OF it allows carrying one less bench field player, but that also limits bringing up someone you want to groom for the future if you keep all 5 outfielders. Seems it would make sense to move Jake if you can trade and sign him.

https://www.theonion.com/mlb-announcer-unsure-why-he-currently-stating-pitcher-s-1850967350

What does 2024 have in store for some of the Astros’ surprise players of 2023? - https://t.co/v5PHvwXtDI

— Chandler Rome (@Chandler_Rome) October 30, 2023

I'd start with this rotation:

1. JV
2. Framber
3. CJ
4. FA/Trade - Gray, Giolito, Flaherty, Wacha, etc.
5. HB
(6). France

This assumes we get/expect nothing from LMJ and Luis Garcia. If they do come back, they go to the bullpen and possibly back in the starting rotation if their performance or injuries require. Urquidy goes to the bullpen and can replace HB in the rotation if HB doesn't get his **** straight.

How have I never seen or of this story.

https://www.instagram.com/reel/Cy4Qv-JP82y/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==

<<I think his manager could have helped him out a little. Look at the times through the order #s.
1st Time: 2.50 ERA, .246 wOBA, 72.0 IP
2nd Time: 2.79 ERA, .280 wOBA, 67.2 IP
3rd Time: 5.30 ERA, .335 wOBA, 52.2 IP
4th Time: 6.35 ERA, .389 wOBA, 5.2 IP>>

I wonder how long it is before starting pitchers are a thing of the past? I'll bet we're approaching a time when every game uses an opener and pitchers all go three innings max. People are talking about fatigue being an issue for guys that pitched less than 200 innings this year.

Farmer1906 said:

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All I do is Nguyen said:

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But is Glasnow a head case like Framber? I doubt Glasnow would have caved like Framber did in the playoffs. I know he didnt have the best outing this year but I am over wondering if we're gonna get good Framber or BSC Framber

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We seem to build up these other guys just because we're not familiar with them.

24% of Glasnows starts, he gave up 4+ runs.
10% of Glasnows starts, he gave up 6 runs

Glasnow's postseason ERA is 5.72

Here are his 5 last postseason starts
5 IP, 4 R, 3 ER, 6 H, 5 BB, 8 SO
5 IP, 0 R, 0 ER, 2 H, 0 BB, 5 SO
5 IP, 4 R, 4 ER, 6 H, 3 BB, 7 SO
4.1 IP, 6 R, 6 ER, 3 H, 6 BB, 8 SO
6 IP, 4 R, 4 ER, 8 H, 2 BB, 5 SO

Is Tyler Glasnow good? Absolutely. But he's not an obvious upgrade over Framber. Trading someone owed 25 M for someone with 2 years of control is a bad idea even if the Rays throw in a prospect.

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It was his first year back from TJ. He was healthy so that's my main concern. And it would take more than just a prospect. Maybe one great prospect but I suspect a couple of pieces.

Got a nice little thought here:

What if I told you we were trading for a starting pitcher who had these metrics:

• 10.3 K/9
• 3.2 BB/9
• 52% Ground ball rate

What would you think about them, irrelevant to what we gave up to get him?

iBrad said:

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I don't get the Framber hate. Did he have his struggles down the stretch? Sure, but he delivered in game six when we needed him to step up. Don't let a 336' pop up that carried out diminish what he did in that start. He had 13 whiffs (eight more than Eovaldi). He pitched really well and had a damn good start spoiled by bad luck. He gave us a chance to win the game and advance to the World Series, but our offense couldn't come through.

Framber definitely had some clunkers, but you don't get rid of a guy just because he went through a bit of a funk, especially when you're not likely to replace him with anything better.

I'll go ahead and make the prediction that Framber outperforms JV in 2024 and doesn't win the Cy Young, but puts himself back in the conversation for much of the season.

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All that without his personal catching whisperer?!? Not a chance!

So looking at next season, I'm looking at two possible road trips

June 16-20: Chicago. Catch the Cubs vs Giants at Wrigley and then the Astros vs White Sox

August 9-11: Astros at Fenway


Both Wrigley and Fenway are 1A/1B on my stadium bucket list.

iBrad said:

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I don't get the Framber hate. Did he have his struggles down the stretch? Sure, but he delivered in game six when we needed him to step up. Don't let a 336' pop up that carried out diminish what he did in that start. He had 13 whiffs (eight more than Eovaldi). He pitched really well and had a damn good start spoiled by bad luck. He gave us a chance to win the game and advance to the World Series, but our offense couldn't come through.

Framber definitely had some clunkers, but you don't get rid of a guy just because he went through a bit of a funk, especially when you're not likely to replace him with anything better.

I'll go ahead and make the prediction that Framber outperforms JV in 2024 and doesn't win the Cy Young, but puts himself back in the conversation for much of the season.

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I'm certainly not in the "replace Framber" camp, because I think that's very premature. At the same time, he doesn't get a pass from me just because he pitched better in game 6. His performances in game 2 against Minnesota and Texas were not good.
I do not think that's worthy of moving on from him though. I suspect with a full offseason to rest and recover, we'll see him getting back to form in 2024.

I plan to hit Wrigley in April for Astros/Cubs and then shoot up to Milwaukee to see Brewers/Yankees.

And then I'll go to San Diego for Astros/Padres in September.

Anyone been to either of those?

I wouldn't move on from him either, but he should be a #3 at this point.

tjack16 said:

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So looking at next season, I'm looking at two possible road trips

June 16-20: Chicago. Catch the Cubs vs Giants at Wrigley and then the Astros vs White Sox

August 9-11: Astros at Fenway


Both Wrigley and Fenway are 1A/1B on my stadium bucket list.

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Me and my two roommates from our days at A&M have been traveling once a year for about 10 years now to see the Astros. We're doing HOU vs. White Sox on June 20th and then catching the Cubs vs. NYM on June 21st.
Let's all get together in Chicago!

We started our tradition with Fenway back in 2013. It's incredible and well worth the trip! Be certain to check out "Bleacher Bar" pregame! You won't be disappointed!

In terms of free agent targets, anyone have thoughts on Yariel Rodriguez? We have obvious Cuba connections and he will only be 27 next season. Good 4 pitch mix, 96 mph heat and a nasty slider. Had issues with walks in WBC but struck out 10 in 7.1 innings.