The Sad Death of MLB

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NicosMachine
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2:09p, 4/12/22
AG
In January 1942, President Roosevelt issued his "green light letter' assuring baseball owners that games should continue despite the onset of WWII. He thought it would be good for national morale writing, "Baseball provides a recreation that does not last over two hours or two hours and a half, and which can be got for very little cost."

Fast forward to yesterdays Texas Rangers' home opener. The game lasted 4.5 hours, the cheap seats sold for $90, and the game ended on a horrendous video review. With that, you have all the element necessary to kill a spectator sport.

Teams do not care because most of their revenue is derived from long-term television contracts and revenue sharing. The television broadcasters love it because they get to sell more and more advertising slots in the 4.5 hour game.

That leaves the fans - bored, broke, and frustrated. The younger generation hates baseball for all these reasons. It will be a shell of a league in 20 years as the t.v. contracts expire and networks realize nobody watches.
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The Porkchop Express
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2:36p, 4/12/22
AG
100% the Texas Rangers have destroyed baseball.
Life is better with a beagle
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htxag09
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3:52p, 4/12/22
AG
I'm with you with games being too long. But want to watch a game for cheap, don't go to the home opener. I imagine tickets will be pretty cheap in a few months, no?

Also, I just saw a snippet of the call (assume you're talking about the slide past second?) and it seemed to me that it was the right call. I'd be pissed too, but per the rules, it was an illegal slide.
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Faustus
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4:05p, 4/12/22
Best the sport just go ahead and die due to you having to pay for and endure an extra innings loss.
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chico
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In reply to NicosMachine • 4:22p, 4/12/22
AG
NicosMachine said:
It will be a shell of a league in 20 years as the t.v. contracts expire and networks realize nobody watches.
I remember my dad saying that in the 1970's after the Curt Flood free agency.
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baseballaficionado
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8:43p, 4/12/22
Maybe I am in the minority, but I love to drink beer and watch long baseball games. When I go watch the Astros, I want to spend as much time as possible at Minute Maid.
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Keeper of The Spirits
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5:40a, 4/13/22
AG
I rarely watch an entire game before August on the tube and that's one of the best parts. 162 games, so the first 120 are relaxing come and go enjoyable games, unlike college football where a single loss often eliminates you or the NBA where 80 games seem like 300 games, every team makes the playoffs and games don't matter until the last 5 minutes

Losing sucks but doesn't mean the games dying, hell we just got through another labor scare relatively unfased
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McInnis
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In reply to NicosMachine • 8:41a, 4/13/22
AG
I'm sorry to say that I agree with the OP. Too many four hour games, $30MM pitchers that can't make the 7th inning and break down before or during post-season (last year, great example), $30MM hitters that don't know how to bunt and won't even try to advance a runner by going the other way. Home runs and strikeouts, that's the game now. I know this isn't a popular opinion here, I'm hoping that doing away with the shift might help, but I'm not holding my breath.

Chico, you laugh as you say your dad predicted that free agency would destroy baseball in the 70s, but think about this: at that time baseball was a close second to football in popularity and way ahead of basketball - where is it today?

October baseball used to be really special, now it just highlights what's wrong. I couldn't even watch the playoffs last year, and my team was in the WS. I've already decided to do what Keeper says, cut way back on watching until later in the summer. I've only watched part of one game so far this year, maybe that will help.

Old man rant over.
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htxag09
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In reply to baseballaficionado • 9:50a, 4/13/22
AG
baseballaficionado said:
Maybe I am in the minority, but I love to drink beer and watch long baseball games. When I go watch the Astros, I want to spend as much time as possible at Minute Maid.
I don't disagree, but the simple fact is the general population does. People have kids, responsibilities, other hobbies, etc. that are competing for time. Would I love to sit at the ballpark for 4 hours and enjoy a game? Sure.

But now lets look at reality. Do I really want to attend a game that lasts from 7-11 pm on a Wednesday, meaning I won't be home until 11:30 or midnight, when I'm going to need to wake up, work out, get the kid ready, get ready for work, etc. at 6 the next day?

I've gotten to where I can't even turn on the start of west coast games because it's hard for me to turn it off when I start watching and I just can't stay up until 1 am every night.
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Quad Dog
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9:51a, 4/13/22
AG
Baseball has been killing itself with the younger generation for years.

First is its dumb blackout policies where you can't stream a game on MLB.TV if you are within a certain distance of your hometown team. The majority of young people these days don't have a cable subscription and want to watch their home town teams, but can't so that the cable channel can make money. Why would they limit someone watching their hometown team? In Iowa, home of Field of Dreams, and 240 miles away from the closest stadium, they can be blacked out of 6 different teams. https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-sports/wtf-mlb-baseball-strikes-out-with-its-streaming-policies-34696/

Second is the time of games. With all of the playoff runs that the Astros have been making lately their playoff and World Series games start and end so late that no school aged kid should be up watching them. You can't grow the game for future generations if their bed time is in the 6th inning.
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Proposition Joe
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9:58a, 4/13/22
Can't say I disagree much with the OP at all.
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coconutED
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In reply to McInnis • 8:21p, 4/13/22
AG
McInnis said:
$30MM pitchers that can't make the 7th inning

Prophetic

Quote:
The Dodgers are about to win a game over the Minnesota Twins ... but their fans are FURIOUS -- 'cause Clayton Kershaw was yanked from the contest despite being perfect through 7 innings.
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Carlo4
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9:29p, 4/13/22
AG
Pulling Kershaw due to a 85 pitch limit is a freaking joke. Stuff like this is why I stopped being a season ticket holder and barely pay attention to a game I love to death.
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CampingAg
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10:14p, 4/13/22
AG
Baseball is horrendously broken right now. It's the second week in April. We've had:

-A lockout
-Sky high opening day ticket prices
-An extra inning Opening Day game end on review of a ticky tack slide rule
-Useless replays littering games
-Coaches crying about drag bunts
-Whatever woke sorcery happened in SF last night. Alleged racism leads to a chick coaching on the field for the first time? I can't even wrap my head around that situation.
-Angel Hernandez in mid season form
-An all-time great being pulled with a shot at a very historic achievement because "actually the analytics say…"
-Fans everywhere can't watch their team on TV

The MLB has taken a belt fed AK-47 to both its feet and we aren't even halfway through April. I'll watch because I have an undying love of baseball. But I can definitely see why nobody else wants to. It's not good.
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Ag_07
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10:24p, 4/13/22
AG
Is the OP bltching that MLB isn't the same as it was in 1942?
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BCSWguru
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In reply to CampingAg • 7:27a, 4/14/22
Quote:
-An all-time great being pulled with a shot at a very historic achievement because "actually the analytics say…"

Dodgers had a 6-0 lead at the time and Kershaw was 80 pitches in. Pretty unreal.
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htxag09
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In reply to Ag_07 • 8:33a, 4/14/22
AG
Ag_07 said:
Is the OP bltching that MLB isn't the same as it was in 1942?
That and that the Rangers' grand plan to have 5 shortstops hasn't played out and they're 1-4.
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McInnis
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In reply to Carlo4 • 10:42a, 4/14/22
AG
Carlo4 said:
Pulling Kershaw due to a 85 pitch limit is a freaking joke. Stuff like this is why I stopped being a season ticket holder and barely pay attention to a game I love to death.
Hey, I've got the perfect solution and it might even shorten game times. How about we change the game from nine to seven innings? There you go.

I'm being facetious of course, but I wonder if it could happen in our lives.
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Proposition Joe
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In reply to McInnis • 10:53a, 4/14/22
McInnis said:
Carlo4 said:
Pulling Kershaw due to a 85 pitch limit is a freaking joke. Stuff like this is why I stopped being a season ticket holder and barely pay attention to a game I love to death.
Hey, I've got the perfect solution and it might even shorten game times. How about we change the game from nine to seven innings? There you go.

I'm being facetious of course, but I wonder if it could happen in our lives.

Who would be in favor of it?

Advertisers/TV-deals aren't in favor of shorter games.

Players aren't in favor of shorter games (both from a contractual standpoint as well as a historical standpoint).
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McInnis
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10:57a, 4/14/22
AG
Well they've been trying everything they can think of to shorten games - not letting batters leave the box between pitches, pitch time limits, the hokey free runner in extra innings, and nothing has worked.

Don't worry, if they ever go to 7 innings they could work in extra timeouts during innings, maybe one after the second batter, so they could get all their commercials in.
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Proposition Joe
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In reply to McInnis • 11:22a, 4/14/22
McInnis said:
Well they've been trying everything they can think of to shorten games - not letting batters leave the box between pitches, pitch time limits, the hokey free runner in extra innings, and nothing has worked.

Don't worry, if they ever go to 7 innings they could work in extra timeouts during innings, maybe one after the second batter, so they could get all their commercials in.

"Everything they can think of".

You could shorten a baseball game by 45 minutes with the following adjustments:

No manager mound visits - the only purpose of these visits is to stall for time

Bullpen pitchers come in ready to pitch - no real way to avoid the long walk in from the bullpens out in the outfield, but there's zero reason a pitcher who has just been warming up in the bullpen needs to then take the mound for more warm up pitches.

A pitch clock that is actually enforced - the previous/current one is more or less just for show, as the players nor the umpires really want to have it enforced. When no one is on base, 15 seconds between the time the previous pitch strike/ball call is made and when the pitcher has started his wind up for the next pitch.

30 second reviews - this one is not as egregious anymore as they've somewhat limited the number of reviews. But you get 10 seconds post play to decide if you want a review, then once buzzed the umpires/new-york has 30 seconds to make a determination. If it takes longer than that, the play stands as called. We've got all this amazing tablet technology on the sidelines/dugouts, but these reviews still take far longer than they should.
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BCSWguru
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In reply to Proposition Joe • 1:32p, 4/14/22
Theres plenty of rea$ons$ for a three minute timeout on a pitching change.
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Ag_07
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In reply to Proposition Joe • 3:50p, 4/14/22
AG
Disagree on the pitcher warm ups

I imagine there's a big difference in how a BP mound feels vs how the field mound feels.

I can see pitchers needing a few pitches to get a feel for that difference.
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knoxtom
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4:14p, 4/14/22
Going to 23 man rosters would cure the problem. The current 26 mon roster lets managers have too many pitchers. Cut out 3 pitchers and the problem is solved
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Proposition Joe
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In reply to Ag_07 • 4:18p, 4/14/22
Ag_07 said:
Disagree on the pitcher warm ups

I imagine there's a big difference in how a BP mound feels vs how the field mound feels.

I can see pitchers needing a few pitches to get a feel for that difference.

Fields play different for every player on a MLB roster. Every other player gets a feel for it before the game during warmups.

It's just another example of "well it's always been done this way so it should continue to be done this way".
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W
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In reply to chico • 4:20p, 4/14/22
AG
chico said:
NicosMachine said:
It will be a shell of a league in 20 years as the t.v. contracts expire and networks realize nobody watches.
I remember my dad saying that in the 1970's after the Curt Flood free agency.
your father was right
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diehard03
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4:25p, 4/14/22
Quote:
$30MM hitters that don't know how to bunt and won't even try to advance a runner by going the other way. Home runs and strikeouts,

If he did what you are asking him to do, he wouldn't be making 30MM.

HTH.
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Quad Dog
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In reply to Proposition Joe • 4:27p, 4/14/22
AG
Proposition Joe said:
McInnis said:
Well they've been trying everything they can think of to shorten games - not letting batters leave the box between pitches, pitch time limits, the hokey free runner in extra innings, and nothing has worked.

Don't worry, if they ever go to 7 innings they could work in extra timeouts during innings, maybe one after the second batter, so they could get all their commercials in.

Bullpen pitchers come in ready to pitch - no real way to avoid the long walk in from the bullpens out in the outfield, but there's zero reason a pitcher who has just been warming up in the bullpen needs to then take the mound for more warm up pitches.

Dictate that all future stadiums must have a bullpen near the dugout. Most stadiums built in the last 20 years should be able to change it now. Fine them until they make the change.
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Proposition Joe
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In reply to Quad Dog • 4:35p, 4/14/22
Quad Dog said:
Proposition Joe said:
McInnis said:
Well they've been trying everything they can think of to shorten games - not letting batters leave the box between pitches, pitch time limits, the hokey free runner in extra innings, and nothing has worked.

Don't worry, if they ever go to 7 innings they could work in extra timeouts during innings, maybe one after the second batter, so they could get all their commercials in.

Bullpen pitchers come in ready to pitch - no real way to avoid the long walk in from the bullpens out in the outfield, but there's zero reason a pitcher who has just been warming up in the bullpen needs to then take the mound for more warm up pitches.

Dictate that all future stadiums must have a bullpen near the dugout. Most stadiums built in the last 20 years should be able to change it now. Fine them until they make the change.

I've given up on hope for that -- stadiums these days are built as event centers first, ballparks second.
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ORAggieFan
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In reply to CampingAg • 12:51p, 4/15/22
CampingAg said:
Baseball is horrendously broken right now. It's the second week in April. We've had:


-Sky high opening day ticket prices
Uh, if it's that bad prices wouldn't be that high. They are high mostly due to secondary market, which is driven by the high demans.
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Proposition Joe
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In reply to ORAggieFan • 4:31p, 4/15/22
ORAggieFan said:
CampingAg said:
Baseball is horrendously broken right now. It's the second week in April. We've had:


-Sky high opening day ticket prices
Uh, if it's that bad prices wouldn't be that high. They are high mostly due to secondary market, which is driven by the high demans.

Yes and no. Demand (in regards to $$) for opening day this year across baseball was at an all-time low -- though that had a lot to do with the shift in opening days due to the lockout.

But high prices don't necessarily mean secondary market sales. If price is high from the primary, people don't buy; when people don't buy, the secondary market lacks supply and prices don't necessarily come down.
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West Roxbury
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9:36a, 4/16/22
I am finding that the high-level class 5a and 6A high school baseball games are great to watch. 2 hours. Sometimes under 2 hours with elite pitching. Fans close to the action. 7 innings.

I am a baseball guy through and through and I will not watch 4 hour games. MLB playoffs are some of the longest. It's too long.
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Martin Cash
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In reply to htxag09 • 4:01p, 4/18/22
AG
htxag09 said:
I'm with you with games being too long. But want to watch a game for cheap, don't go to the home opener. I imagine tickets will be pretty cheap in a few months, no?

Also, I just saw a snippet of the call (assume you're talking about the slide past second?) and it seemed to me that it was the right call. I'd be pissed too, but per the rules, it was an illegal slide.
Ranger tickets? Yep.
The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but the heart of the fool to the left. Ecclesiastes 10:2
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ArmyAg97
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7:01a, 4/23/22
AG
Can we please add Apple TV broadcast to the reasons baseball is collapsing.
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Iowaggie
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4:57p, 5/4/22
AG
Still some good in baseball:



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