Thanks.MAROON said:
$5mil team option for 2023, since he will play in 90 or more games this season.
***** Official 2022 Houston Astros Season Thread *****
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Last: 2 yr ago by Harry Dunne
Farmer1906 said:He actually has a no-trade clause. If the Angels want to blow it up, then they have to have him agree to any deal. That could limit suiters for him.Deluxe said:
If I'm Trout, I wouldn't be in any rush to return. He needs to sit out the rest of the year, get healthy, and demand a trade.
Theoretically (because no way the Angels would trade Trout to us), who would you give up a bigger package for? Soto or Trout? Keep in mind Trout is signed for longer and Soto will have to be reupped in 2.5 years or before. But you also are already on the hook for Trout's old years.
superaggie73 said:Farmer1906 said:He actually has a no-trade clause. If the Angels want to blow it up, then they have to have him agree to any deal. That could limit suiters for him.Deluxe said:
If I'm Trout, I wouldn't be in any rush to return. He needs to sit out the rest of the year, get healthy, and demand a trade.
Theoretically (because no way the Angels would trade Trout to us), who would you give up a bigger package for? Soto or Trout? Keep in mind Trout is signed for longer and Soto will have to be reupped in 2.5 years or before. But you also are already on the hook for Trout's old years.
Trout can't hit in mmp, been awful here his whole career. Not sure I want to sign up for an expensive hitter who is going to suck in half his games, not to mention his injury issues that are only going to get worse over time.
IF I could get comfortable with Trout's health issues, I'd rather have Trout. He's the best player of this era and the opportunity to lock him and Yordan hitting 3-4 in the order through 2028 is pretty enticing. With Yordan hitting behind him and access to our nerds, I think Trout has an even higher ceiling that what he's shown so far (which is pretty high).superaggie73 said:Theoretically (because no way the Angels would trade Trout to us), who would you give up a bigger package for? Soto or Trout? Keep in mind Trout is signed for longer and Soto will have to be reupped in 2.5 years or before. But you also are already on the hook for Trout's old years.Farmer1906 said:He actually has a no-trade clause. If the Angels want to blow it up, then they have to have him agree to any deal. That could limit suiters for him.Deluxe said:
If I'm Trout, I wouldn't be in any rush to return. He needs to sit out the rest of the year, get healthy, and demand a trade.
His $35mm/year salary isn't even that crazy because, after Scherzer's deal, I think we're going to start seeing more and more $40mm+ contracts.
But again, all that is contingent on getting comfortable with his health.
In fairness, when he's at MMP, he's facing our pitchers.EastCoastAgNc said:Trout can't hit in mmp, been awful here his whole career. Not sure I want to sign up for an expensive hitter who is going to suck in half his games, not to mention his injury issues that are only going to get worse over time.superaggie73 said:Theoretically (because no way the Angels would trade Trout to us), who would you give up a bigger package for? Soto or Trout? Keep in mind Trout is signed for longer and Soto will have to be reupped in 2.5 years or before. But you also are already on the hook for Trout's old years.Farmer1906 said:He actually has a no-trade clause. If the Angels want to blow it up, then they have to have him agree to any deal. That could limit suiters for him.Deluxe said:
If I'm Trout, I wouldn't be in any rush to return. He needs to sit out the rest of the year, get healthy, and demand a trade.
EastCoastAgNc said:Mathguy64 said:
Been nice knowing you Niko.
Any team who takes Niko in a trade is getting fleeced. I don't care if they are only sending back a load of laundry.
Which would be a pretty funny thing to send back along with all the wool from the fleecing.
Baseball remains an amazing sport where position players can be vastly overpaid. Would rather have cap tied up in pitching
Liriano got us a big out in game 7 of the WS. That trade was a win.Harry Dunne said:Definitely a bad trade long-term. Certainly would have been nice to have Teoscar all these years.Lonestar_Ag09 said:
Liriano was a bad trade, cost us way more than it should have and did nothing for us.
But I look at trades a different way. All I care about is:
1. Did we win the World Series? Yes
2. Did we trade away our future to do it? Obviously not
You also have to look at all the trades together and not just the few that ended up looking bad. In order to make great trades you have to take some risks, and when you take risks some are not going to work out. The total body of work trade-wise of that regime is outstanding.
It's funny that everyone sees the Cole trade as such a great victory and I mean yes, we got 2 years of a CYA caliber guy for much less than that. But did we win a WS? So looking back at it, you can make an argument that maybe if we keep Musgrove we might still have him. Either way we can't fire up the DeLorean and see "what if?", but the main point is that you have to look at the entire body of work and what came of that trading approach and not just one trade that "didn't work out" (or did it?).
Deluxe said:IF I could get comfortable with Trout's health issues, I'd rather have Trout. He's the best player of this era and the opportunity to lock him and Yordan hitting 3-4 in the order through 2028 is pretty enticing. With Yordan hitting behind him and access to our nerds, I think Trout has an even higher ceiling that what he's shown so far (which is pretty high).superaggie73 said:Theoretically (because no way the Angels would trade Trout to us), who would you give up a bigger package for? Soto or Trout? Keep in mind Trout is signed for longer and Soto will have to be reupped in 2.5 years or before. But you also are already on the hook for Trout's old years.Farmer1906 said:He actually has a no-trade clause. If the Angels want to blow it up, then they have to have him agree to any deal. That could limit suiters for him.Deluxe said:
If I'm Trout, I wouldn't be in any rush to return. He needs to sit out the rest of the year, get healthy, and demand a trade.
His $35mm/year salary isn't even that crazy because, after Scherzer's deal, I think we're going to start seeing more and more $40mm+ contracts.
But again, all that is contingent on getting comfortable with his health.
I think I agree with this. Yes you're locked into his older years at $35 million, but it's gonna cost you more than that to resign Soto if you had him.
So what would that cost you today? Brown, Leon, Lee, Whitley, Javier/Garcia, and Meyers/McCormick?
The #Nationals offer to the #Cardinals included Matthew Liberatore and 4 young major leaguers in exchange for Soto.
— MLB News Network ® (@newsnetworkmlb) July 26, 2022
Matthew Liberatore Is the 45 rated prospect overall
I assume Dylan Carlson and/or Tyler ONeil are involved too
Lowest OPS of any park in which he's played over 5 games at .757 and a .206 average in 64 career games. 11 homers, thoughEastCoastAgNc said:superaggie73 said:Farmer1906 said:He actually has a no-trade clause. If the Angels want to blow it up, then they have to have him agree to any deal. That could limit suiters for him.Deluxe said:
If I'm Trout, I wouldn't be in any rush to return. He needs to sit out the rest of the year, get healthy, and demand a trade.
Theoretically (because no way the Angels would trade Trout to us), who would you give up a bigger package for? Soto or Trout? Keep in mind Trout is signed for longer and Soto will have to be reupped in 2.5 years or before. But you also are already on the hook for Trout's old years.
Trout can't hit in mmp, been awful here his whole career. Not sure I want to sign up for an expensive hitter who is going to suck in half his games, not to mention his injury issues that are only going to get worse over time.
Bell as a bat target is pretty obvious. His defense is a concern. Stros need a 1B that can pick throws. Yuli has saved a lot of errors. Especially from Altuve and Peña.
Wonder how many throws infielders eat not having yuli as a safety blanket.
Wonder how many throws infielders eat not having yuli as a safety blanket.
I saw another account tweet that this wasn't true FWIWbearkatag15 said:The #Nationals offer to the #Cardinals included Matthew Liberatore and 4 young major leaguers in exchange for Soto.
— MLB News Network ® (@newsnetworkmlb) July 26, 2022
Matthew Liberatore Is the 45 rated prospect overall
I assume Dylan Carlson and/or Tyler ONeil are involved too
Cubs All-Star catcher Willson Contreras gets emotional when discussing the possibility of being traded pic.twitter.com/8wJh6YYbi0
— Talkin’ Baseball (@TalkinBaseball_) July 26, 2022
I remember Graveman having similar feelings last year, it's understandable
Every team needs a 1B that can pick it.MosesHallRAB04 said:
Bell as a bat target is pretty obvious. His defense is a concern. Stros need a 1B that can pick throws. Yuli has saved a lot of errors. Especially from Altuve and Peña.
Wonder how many throws infielders eat not having yuli as a safety blanket.
Sources: Mets and Cubs have been discussing a potential trade package that would send Willson Contreras and David Robertson to NY for multiple prospects (Not named Alvarez or Baty)
— Pat Ragazzo (@ragazzoreport) July 26, 2022
Talks are ongoing, packages still being discussed as of late last weekendhttps://t.co/Ef247mvW4M
Prior to tonight’s game, the Yankees made the following roster moves:
— New York Yankees (@Yankees) July 26, 2022
•Placed OF/DH Giancarlo Stanton on the 10-day injured list (retroactive to 7/24) with left Achilles tendonitis.
•Recalled OF Tim Locastro (#33) from Triple-A Scranton/Wilkes-Barre.
I hear you, but this is hard to quantify. My eyeballs tell me Yuli hasn't been near as good as he was last year. While I haven't watched a ton of Bell defensively, reports are that he's been doing much better.MosesHallRAB04 said:
Bell as a bat target is pretty obvious. His defense is a concern. Stros need a 1B that can pick throws. Yuli has saved a lot of errors. Especially from Altuve and Peña.
Wonder how many throws infielders eat not having yuli as a safety blanket.
Here are the stats on defensive.it bears that out.
DRS (Defensive Runs Saves from Fielding Bible)
Bell 2
Gurriel (-1)
2021 Gurriel 5
OAA (Outs Above Average from Statcast)
Bell 1
Gurriel (-5)
2021 Gurriel (-1)
Def (Fielding Runs Above Avg from Fangraphs)
Bell (-5.8)
Gurriel (-9.3)
2021 Gurriel (-11.3)
Everyone but Christian Walker is negative for first basemen.
linkdude said:Prior to tonight’s game, the Yankees made the following roster moves:
— New York Yankees (@Yankees) July 26, 2022
•Placed OF/DH Giancarlo Stanton on the 10-day injured list (retroactive to 7/24) with left Achilles tendonitis.
•Recalled OF Tim Locastro (#33) from Triple-A Scranton/Wilkes-Barre.
Bad timing with the subway series starting tonight. Hopefully the Met's take advantage
FIFY, whelp maybe not....E said:
https://www.instagram.com/tv/CgeznTcMEvI/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y
Yes!!!TREX01 said:Liriano got us a big out in game 7 of the WS. That trade was a win.Harry Dunne said:Definitely a bad trade long-term. Certainly would have been nice to have Teoscar all these years.Lonestar_Ag09 said:
Liriano was a bad trade, cost us way more than it should have and did nothing for us.
But I look at trades a different way. All I care about is:
1. Did we win the World Series? Yes
2. Did we trade away our future to do it? Obviously not
You also have to look at all the trades together and not just the few that ended up looking bad. In order to make great trades you have to take some risks, and when you take risks some are not going to work out. The total body of work trade-wise of that regime is outstanding.
It's funny that everyone sees the Cole trade as such a great victory and I mean yes, we got 2 years of a CYA caliber guy for much less than that. But did we win a WS? So looking back at it, you can make an argument that maybe if we keep Musgrove we might still have him. Either way we can't fire up the DeLorean and see "what if?", but the main point is that you have to look at the entire body of work and what came of that trading approach and not just one trade that "didn't work out" (or did it?).
Teoscar was also not a highly-regarded prospect. The lane for him here was clogged and wouldn't have had the playing time and chance to develop that he got in Toronto.
Per @baseball_ref database: The only pitchers in recorded play-by-play history to allow 0 baserunners and have 17+ K over a 30 PA span:
— Greg Harvey (@BetweenTheNums) July 26, 2022
Ryan Pressly (2022)
Pedro Martínez (1999)
Incredible Run! @astros 🔥 pic.twitter.com/oEJGO1BjfU
I wonder how many top tier AL hitters have their worst career OPS at MMPredline248 said:
Lowest OPS of any park in which he's played over 5 games at .757 and a .206 average in 64 career games. 11 homers, though
I know it's already been addressed, but this is such an intellectually dishonest take (obtuse was a great word) I had to break it down again... the poster was proposing us doing something that we haven't ever done since the new culture of the Houston Astros was established. I didn't say we don't trade for big names. I said we won't trade long-term competitiveness for one-off shots (rentals and low-control deals).Farmer1906 said:Exactly. Just look at the minor trade acquisitions we made.Buck Compton said:I love the trade deadline.Wabs said:
Get Bell and Castillo and let's roll
How many times does management need to emphasize that it won't trade long-term competitiveness for a one-off shot at a title before it sinks in for most of you?
Alvarez
Velander
Cole
Greinke
Pressly
Osuna
McCann
Diaz
Liriano
Maldonado
Sanchez
Raley
Graveman
Montero
Garcia
Maton
You gotta keep it small and simple to preserve the minor league prospects. No big names.
We don't sell the farm for rentals, especially for position player rentals. Of the proposed trades, the one that makes the most sense is Castillo. We will probably find some kind of bullpen help. But we just don't shell out for position players. And for the most part we don't make two "blockbuster"-type trades at any one deadline.
11 of the 13 deadline acquisitions we have made have been pitchers. The other two were Maldonado rentals. We typically acquire bats we need via free agency. You have to go all the way back to the Fiers/gomez trade to find a significant position player.
Please tell me how any of your names below support your position. I'm keeping this to deadline moves since 2016. For offseason moves, you have to look at all of them, including moves for a lot of names not on your list.
Names Proposed:
Bell - a rental position player
Castillo - 1.5 years of control, still not the name of Verlander or Cole or even Greinke, but better performance than Greinke. I think this could make a lot of sense, especially if you think he would be open to signing
2016 (Luhnow - sellers at the deadline)
Shipped off Feldman for minor leaguers
Alvarez - We saw an opportunity to swap minor leaguers, make room on the 40-man, and still stay in the playoff hunt during a disappointing season. Fields was optioned to triple A weeks before we flipped him for a 19-year old Cuban prospect who hadn't played above single A level yet. The equivalent to this for this year would be finding a way to flip Enoli or Bielak for a Single A player with upside. Obviously this one worked out and hope we do something similar again.
2017 (Luhnow)
Verlander - sent prospects 3/9/11 to the Tigers for a former Cy Young award winner with 2.5 years of control. Not a rental. Blockbuster trade, but didn't sell the farm. Also got a no name PTBNL but who cares - it was a nobody.
Liriano - rental, sent prospect 8/Nori Aoki for him. Again, not selling the farm
Clippard - sent PTBNL/Cash to white sox. Hardly selling the farm.
Maybin - rental claimed off waivers from LAA.
2018 (Luhnow)
Maldonado - rental, traded them a Class A OF (Sandoval - unranked I believe) and international bonus slot money.
Pressly - 1.5 years of control, sent prospects 10/15 to the Twins. Pretty even trade, and obviously looks better in retrospect once we were able to sign him longer than that 1.5 years.
Osuna - 2.5 years of control, sent Giles and prospects 10/23(who also had a PED suspension), he had also been long suspended, which I believe impacted the price. We also just needed giles gone.
Note: Also traded away Hoyt for a minor leaguer to make room on the roster.
2019 (Luhnow)
Scrubb - no service time clock started, only a minor league deal. Sent them Tyler White. A win since we got more than a case of Gatorade. Hardly selling the farm. In fact, might save the farm since White was liable to eat the farm.
Biagini/Sanchez/Minor league lotto ticket - Biagini had 1.5 years, Sanchez was a rental, we sent them Fisher. hardly selling the farm. This would be like finding a way to package Siri into a deal. I think we'd all be in favor of that.
Greinke - 2.5 years of control, sent prospects 3/4/5/22 for him. Huge blockbuster trade, but former Cy young winner. Overpaid in prospects so we didn't have to pay all his salary. This is as close as we've come to selling the farm. Hopefully we learned from this trade, but this is the one name that helps make your point.
Maldonado (again) - rental, he was a back-up in Chicago though, sent one of our back-ups in the swap (Kemp, position blocked anyway). Also traded away Stassi for a few minor leaguers in this trade to even it out.
2020 (COVID / Click)
Raley - weird contract status, but 2 years of control, sent a PTBNL. Hardly a big name at the time - we were just hoping we could fix him (and we largely did).
2021 (Click)
Graveman/Montero - rental on Graveman, 1 year on Montero. Joe Smith and Toro (position blocked/back-up)
Garcia - rental, sent a journeyman reliever and an unranked prospect (who had spent 8 years in the minors for us)
Maton - 2.5 years of control, sent a major leaguer in Straw, mostly just so Dusty had to play our rookies. Now Dusty is getting back at Click by using Maton every chance he gets. We also go Yanier Diaz to even this out.
Trout is an old 30. Do not want.redline248 said:Lowest OPS of any park in which he's played over 5 games at .757 and a .206 average in 64 career games. 11 homers, thoughEastCoastAgNc said:superaggie73 said:Farmer1906 said:He actually has a no-trade clause. If the Angels want to blow it up, then they have to have him agree to any deal. That could limit suiters for him.Deluxe said:
If I'm Trout, I wouldn't be in any rush to return. He needs to sit out the rest of the year, get healthy, and demand a trade.
Theoretically (because no way the Angels would trade Trout to us), who would you give up a bigger package for? Soto or Trout? Keep in mind Trout is signed for longer and Soto will have to be reupped in 2.5 years or before. But you also are already on the hook for Trout's old years.
Trout can't hit in mmp, been awful here his whole career. Not sure I want to sign up for an expensive hitter who is going to suck in half his games, not to mention his injury issues that are only going to get worse over time.
Teoscar nearly killed Tuve that year as well. Being banished to the north was his punishment.PSully97 said:Yes!!!TREX01 said:Liriano got us a big out in game 7 of the WS. That trade was a win.Harry Dunne said:Definitely a bad trade long-term. Certainly would have been nice to have Teoscar all these years.Lonestar_Ag09 said:
Liriano was a bad trade, cost us way more than it should have and did nothing for us.
But I look at trades a different way. All I care about is:
1. Did we win the World Series? Yes
2. Did we trade away our future to do it? Obviously not
You also have to look at all the trades together and not just the few that ended up looking bad. In order to make great trades you have to take some risks, and when you take risks some are not going to work out. The total body of work trade-wise of that regime is outstanding.
It's funny that everyone sees the Cole trade as such a great victory and I mean yes, we got 2 years of a CYA caliber guy for much less than that. But did we win a WS? So looking back at it, you can make an argument that maybe if we keep Musgrove we might still have him. Either way we can't fire up the DeLorean and see "what if?", but the main point is that you have to look at the entire body of work and what came of that trading approach and not just one trade that "didn't work out" (or did it?).
Teoscar was also not a highly-regarded prospect. The lane for him here was clogged and wouldn't have had the playing time and chance to develop that he got in Toronto.
I laughedQuote:
In fact, might save the farm since White was liable to eat the farm.
All I do is Nguyen said:
My biggest need at the trade deadline is another SP/MR so when we get rid of Odo we dont see a drop off, and maybe another pen arm or a decent Bat.
Lance. We'll probably keep Odo in the 6 man to eat innings, and return Javier to bullpen for long relief. Then in postseason I would guess Odo is off the roster and we go to a five man rotation if
Verlander
Framber
Urquidy
Garcia
LMJ
All that considering we don't make any moves with those guys. Urquidy probably the only one with enough trade value to be moved.
Any news on McCullers after his first rehab start? I've seen nothing but his stat line
Talks for Catcher Willson Contreras from the #Cubs have intensified around the league. #Astros were on Willson early, but teams like the #Yankees and #Mets have reached out to see what the price is at. #Astros still the favorite to land him before the deadline if dealt.
— MLB Leaks (@MLB_Leaks) July 26, 2022
Starts tomorrow with sugar land, I think against OKC
I know we have LMJ coming back but there is no guarantee that he will be the ace he was or someone else gets hurt. Like several posters have said, you can never have too many pitchers.kegstand said:All I do is Nguyen said:
My biggest need at the trade deadline is another SP/MR so when we get rid of Odo we dont see a drop off, and maybe another pen arm or a decent Bat.
Lance. We'll probably keep Odo in the 6 man to eat innings, and return Javier to bullpen for long relief. Then in postseason I would guess Odo is off the roster and we go to a five man rotation if
Verlander
Framber
Urquidy
Garcia
LMJ
All that considering we don't make any moves with those guys. Urquidy probably the only one with enough trade value to be moved.
No matter what!
Epstein didn't do, you know, the thing...
I'm the rare Astros/Cowboys/Spurs fan. We do exist
Epstein didn't do, you know, the thing...
I'm the rare Astros/Cowboys/Spurs fan. We do exist
My nomination for the most surprising thing regularly seen in a Texags thread about the Houston Astros: the use of "obtuse" in a non mathematical conversation
Lance will be even better and extremely pissed off as he dominates in the post-season
"that aint no guess, its what its gonna be"
"that aint no guess, its what its gonna be"
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