In the bottom of the eighth, both Siri and Graveman entered the game. Siri went in for Alvarez in the four hole and Graveman into the nine hole. My question is why did Dusty do this? Why not have Siri go into the nine spot where he would have actually batted third in the top of the ninth instead of having Graveman hit? Not sure Baker was thinking correctly or maybe I am not thinking correctly.

maybe he felt that had it come to needing to score runs in the bottom of the 9th it would be better to have a good bat in the 4th spot than dealing with the pitcher spot there for the rest of the game, had we been down in the 8th he probably would have switched things around.

The Braves batted in the bottom of the ninth, not the Astros. The only way that the four hole would have batted again for the Astros would have been in the tenth if the Braves tied it in the ninth with four runs off of Graveman.

Panama Red said:

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To give him the option of using Diaz to pinch hit in that spot and still keep his best defense in the game.

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Not sure that explains anything. Diaz was his last position player available, so you have to keep him for emergency purposes and I don't think he had any intentions of ever pinch hitting him in the ninth even if there was runners on second and third with no outs. Graveman was going two innings unless he got into big trouble. Why bat a relief pitcher like Graveman when you don't have too?

Panama Red said:

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I think you're wrong about Dusty's intentions of what he would've done that situation. I think for sure he brings Diaz to hit in that spot, closes it out with Pressley

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Was Pressley able to go yesterday?

Either way, I agree with you. If Graveman didn't look like he could go two innings, he would've pinch hit Diaz in that scenario. I'd rather Diaz be hitting than Siri.

threeanout said:

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Panama Red said:

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To give him the option of using Diaz to pinch hit in that spot and still keep his best defense in the game.

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Not sure that explains anything. Diaz was his last position player available, so you have to keep him for emergency purposes and I don't think he had any intentions of ever pinch hitting him in the ninth even if there was runners on second and third with no outs. Graveman was going two innings unless he got into big trouble. Why bat a relief pitcher like Graveman when you don't have too?

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But why would you burn your last position player in a situation where you had a big lead? Diaz may be a slightly better option as a PH, but if you make the correct switch you could have Siri batting and still save Diaz.

It wouldn't matter in a big lead, hence Graveman hitting last night. But if we'd given up 2 runs in the bottom of the 8th then you would no longer have a big lead. So, yes, you'd rather have diaz batting than Siri.

Also, "correct switch" implies that Dusty was wrong and you're right. You asked why, you've gotten valid answers even if you don't agree with them. There's hardly a "wrong" and "right" answer/move in baseball.

Hell, I don't remember the game but in the Dodgers/Braves series a Dodger pitcher made the third out of the inning and didn't even pitch the next half inning.

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But why would you burn your last position player in a situation where you had a big lead? Diaz may be a slightly better option as a PH, but if you make the correct switch you could have Siri batting and still save Diaz.

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You wouldn't.

Its only if Graveman struggled, and Graveman came up with a shot to take back the lead or extend it.

Putting Graveman there gives Dusty the option to leave him in because he is pitching well and we have a lead, or to pinch for him if that was not the case.

So you're saying Dusty would rather have the option of burning his last bench player Diaz (who has gone 10-78 since late August) instead of already having Siri in that spot???

That's dumb enough that I believe you are correct in Dusty's thinking.

Panama Red said:

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But why would you burn your last position player in a situation where you had a big lead? Diaz may be a slightly better option as a PH, but if you make the correct switch you could have Siri batting and still save Diaz.

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You wouldn't.

Its only if Graveman struggled, and Graveman came up with a shot to take back the lead or extend it.

Putting Graveman there gives Dusty the option to leave him in because he is pitching well and we have a lead, or to pinch for him if that was not the case.

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I'm enjoying the banter, but you are contradicting yourself with different posts. One you say, "I think for sure he brings Diaz to hit in that spot, closes it out with Pressley" and then above you say you would only burn Diaz if Graveman struggled and they had shot to take back the lead or extend it.

The only thing I can think of is that Dusty was willing to take an out in the 9th, but didn't want to be forced to use Diaz to pinch hit in extra innings, if it got to that point.

Basically, let the pitcher take the out in the 9th so Diaz wouldn't be needed until the 11th or 12th inning, rather than the 10th.

All I can say is it always looks like a clear cut "right" answer. I can't tell you how many times Dusty made a move, or didn't make a move, and the Astros thread absolutely lit him up about it. Multiple pages of how he's an idiot, asleep at the wheel, etc. Well not many come back and say he was right when the move Dusty made worked out.

An example would an extra inning game in the regular season. I can't remember the game or the exact players. But Dusty made a double switch that put Machete on second to start the inning and Tucker in the 4 or 5 spot. *I think those are the players, but you get the idea. He put a fat slow person on second to start the inning with the extra inning rules.

I think everybody on the Astros thread thought he legitimately lost his mind. Well, the odds of really needing that extra speed with a runner on second and no outs is pretty small. Guess what, Machete scored. Then, Tucker came up in a spot with runners in scoring position. You'd definitely want Tucker in that scenario vs. Machete.

For the record I am a huge Dusty fan, I think he is a great coach, and is just good for the game of baseball. I just can't help but think they somehow overlooked an option last night in the eighth which IMHO was the right move. Granted that they have played 177 games this year and in all but three you don't worry about your pitcher in the batting order.

Not a contradiction at all. If Graveman gave up runs to make it lose, Diaz would have hit. If he had come up with the men on as described but pitched as well as he did, Diaz doesn't hit

No offense, but it's pretty obvious why Dusty made that decision. It's fine you don't agree with it, but your confusion is, well, confusing.

Panama Red said:

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Not a contradiction at all. If Graveman gave up runs to make it lose, Diaz would have hit. If he had come up with the men on as described but pitched as well as he did, Diaz doesn't hit

No offense, but it's pretty obvious why Dusty made that decision. It's fine you don't agree with it, but your confusion is, well, confusing.

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If Graveman gave up the lead, Dusty could have had Siri already in that 9 spot rather than needing to pinch hit. The only way it makes sense is if he was hedging against the possibility of extra innings. Even then, it's still a weird move.

It probably wasn't anything more than getting Alvarez out of LF. No need for him to play out there anymore than absolutely needed.

Roll the dice that he won't need to bat again and limit the chance he get hurt trying to make a play in the bottom of the 9th of a four run game.

03_Aggie said:

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It probably wasn't anything more than getting Alvarez out of LF. No need for him to play out there anymore than absolutely needed.

Roll the dice that he won't need to bat again and limit the chance he get hurt trying to make a play in the bottom of the 9th of a four run game.

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You're completely missing the point of this conversation. He's perfectly correct to take Alvarez out. But 29 out of 30 managers are going to put Siri in the 9th spot so the pitcher spot is further from coming up.

These situations don't matter until they do. And Dusty makes these head scratcher moves quite a bit.

To his credit, he has been much better in the postseason especially with usage of pitchers. Players seem to love playing for Dusty so, could be worse.

P.S. Diaz has been suck forever

I didn't miss the point of the conversation. I'm well aware of the double switch and actually thought that's what he did until I saw this thread.

Like I said, it probably wasn't anything more than let's get Alvarez out of LF so it was two independent moves.

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He's perfectly correct to take Alvarez out. But 29 out of 30 managers are going to put Siri in the 9th spot so the pitcher spot is further from coming up.

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And this is where I disagree. Not sure how you can plainly say that in this scenario. This plays out in three ways:

1) Graveman pitches lights out. If he does this, it's still a large lead and he's pitching the 9th. Don't really care about giving a free out.

2) Graveman struggles, but doesn't give up any runs. He's probably not going to pitch the 9th, but we still have a large lead. So not really worried, let him hit and give up the free out, pinch hit Stubbs/Diaz, not a huge decision or deal breaker with a 4 run lead in the 9th.

3) Graveman struggles, gives up a few runs, or they even tie it, pull ahead. You're either pulling him that inning or he finished that inning but won't be pitching the 9th. Either way, you probably don't have someone in the bullpen that will finish the 8th and throw the 9th so you're pinch hitting for the pitcher. The pitcher slot is coming up in the 3 hole for the 9th. Sure, Diaz has struggled, but I'd 100x rather diaz up in that situation than Siri. I don't think Siri has made solid contact this post season.

Again, it's not as clear cut as you and the OP are making it out to be. You can argue both ways in this move. Would you rather have Siri bat than a pinch hitter in scenario 1 and 2? Yes. But it really doesn't have that big of an impact in a 4 run game. Would you rather have the option to hit Diaz than Siri in scenario 3? Yes.