He was a defensive replacement.

Yep. Between the numbers and the starting pitching it is hard to imagine this team struggling to win the division once August and September rolls around, provided we stay reasonably healthy.

Okay. Something I don't get. Starting pitchers come here and we revive their careers. What are we doing differently with BP pitchers?

Philip J Fry said:

---

Okay. Something I don't get. Starting pitchers come here and we revive their careers. What are we doing differently with BP pitchers?

---

Irish Pete literally just explained this. Much of what looks like a bad bullpen is really just bad luck on balls in play.

Really hoping we can jump on Severino early in this ballgame.

I also am really hoping Dallas can give us 7-8 innings. That would be huge.

CSWendt said:

---

Few thoughts from last night:

1) JD Davis has some raw power. He's able to get the ball near the wall even when he doesn't hit it all that well.

2) Outside of 2 innings this week, this is the best stretch of baseball this team has played. Our level of play could very easily have us at 5-2 on this road trip against quality opponents.

3) If Springer and Correa can get into a groove this offense can get to where they were last year. Kemp, Gattis, and Davis have all provided some length which is what worked so well for us last year. I don't even think Gonzalez needs to have the year he did last year for this offense to be the best in the league.

4) Last point: These two blown saves against Cleveland and NY mean nothing in isolation. It's a long season. Come August and September this team will hardly remember these games. What will matter is figuring out how to stop this from being a regular occurrence (if you even want to say it currently is).

---

While I agree that this will just be an afterthought by then, we do have 7 blown saves this year which is concerning

"we had 30 last year, so stop worrying"

That's what I was told. Regardless we won the WS in spite of Giles inability (and others) not because of

I know many of you won't but this thread needs to be read.

irish pete ag06 said:

---

I know many of you won't but this thread needs to be read.

---

Like it's been said on this thread many times. It's the inherited runners he seems to always let score and there's no confidence by anyone when he comes in.

I will agree that there isn't anyone we could realistically get that would be an improvement. Most of the elite guys are already on teams who will compete. And the others would cost an arm and a leg. Padres will accept a crazy offer for hand sometime this season.

Mr.Bond said:

---

"we had 30 last year, so stop worrying"

That's what I was told. Regardless we won the WS in spite of Giles inability (and others) not because of

---

Just checked. It was 22

Quote:

---

I will agree that there isn't anyone we could realistically get that would be an improvement. Most of the elite guys are already on teams who will compete. And the others would cost an arm and a leg.

---

I think we make a run at Kelvin Herrera

He's a rental so he could be had for a bit cheaper than some of the others like Hand.

It'll be interesting to keep an eye on Britton as he comes back from the achilles injury.

Read it. Didn't find it compelling.

Ag_07 said:

---

Quote:

---

I will agree that there isn't anyone we could realistically get that would be an improvement. Most of the elite guys are already on teams who will compete. And the others would cost an arm and a leg.

---

I think we make a run at Kelvin Herrera

He's a rental so he could be had for a bit cheaper than some of the others like Hand.

It'll be interesting to keep an eye on Britton as he comes back from the achilles injury.

---

Geoff Blum was on the radio this morning and he singled out Herrera as his top target. Unfortunately it seems to be a sellers market so he might not be as cheap as you think.

Philip J Fry said:

---

Read it. Didn't find it compelling.

---

Ok. I thought it was quite compelling considering how everyone assumes we are going to find another closer better than Giles somewhere. Just like last year.

I'd be perfectly fine if Hinch just kept using closer by matchup/committee approach. Got lefties coming up, go with Devo and his change. Got righties? Go with Giles. Got guys who struggle with a major offspeed curve? Go with McHugh for a couple of innings. Then there's always Peacock (although he's been as snakebit as any pitcher in our pen this year, Hard Contact percentage is down, but homers per fly ball is up).

We can "bolster" this pen through trades, don't get me wrong, but there is not righty we can acquire that will be "better" than Giles, statistically speaking.

Charlie Conway said:

---

Ag_07 said:

---

Quote:

---

I will agree that there isn't anyone we could realistically get that would be an improvement. Most of the elite guys are already on teams who will compete. And the others would cost an arm and a leg.

---

I think we make a run at Kelvin Herrera

He's a rental so he could be had for a bit cheaper than some of the others like Hand.

It'll be interesting to keep an eye on Britton as he comes back from the achilles injury.

---

Geoff Blum was on the radio this morning and he singled out Herrera as his top target. Unfortunately it seems to be a sellers market so he might not be as cheap as you think.

---

I disagree about the market. There are quite a few more "tankers" and bad teams this year. I think it will force the price down compared to the last 2 years.

irish pete ag06 said:

---

Charlie Conway said:

---

Ag_07 said:

---

Quote:

---

I will agree that there isn't anyone we could realistically get that would be an improvement. Most of the elite guys are already on teams who will compete. And the others would cost an arm and a leg.

---

I think we make a run at Kelvin Herrera

He's a rental so he could be had for a bit cheaper than some of the others like Hand.

It'll be interesting to keep an eye on Britton as he comes back from the achilles injury.

---

Geoff Blum was on the radio this morning and he singled out Herrera as his top target. Unfortunately it seems to be a sellers market so he might not be as cheap as you think.

---

I disagree about the market. There are quite a few more "tankers" and bad teams this year. I think it will force the price down compared to the last 2 years.

---

I was just basing it on what he was saying on the radio. I think he mentioned that about half the teams would be looking for a shut down guy.

Ag_07 said:

---

Whatever he does I think Hinch needs to start letting the BP guys go a bit longer per outing.

I don't think he can continue to use 4-5 guys to get 9 outs.

I get some guys like Sipp and maybe even Joe Smith are specialists and you don't want them going against their splits, but the BP is starting to be taxed and blowing through arms is going to start taking it's toll.

Use Peacock earlier and get 2 IP out of him, use McHugh earlier and let him finish a game, but stop with the use a guy for an inning and yank him. He's going to run into a situation where he's always going to be using guys back to back days. Kinda like what we're seeing now.

I think they're a good group, but it's gonna take some fine tuning in how they're used to manage wear and tear. I really think that's the issue right now. Simply usage and guys getting worn out. It's the first time this year we're dealing with it and once we get out of it they'll be back to being dependable.

---

total agreeance

I don't recall the exact details but I want to say we had one of the better bullpens "statistically" for a large portion of last season....and the last month and into the playoffs everyone got rocked. We had no one we could count on and won the WS despite their ineptitude. I'm not concerned as much with our current teams stats as I am looking into the playoffs and who we can count on. You can throw regular season bullpen numbers out the window when you get into post season play as they aren't worth the paper they are written on.

Ken giles stats help paint a picture but if we were in game 5 of the divisional series tonight against the Cleveland Indians and it was a 3-2 game heading to the 9th... mentally that guy terrifies me. Maybe he has a great second half and cruises through the playoffs I don't know, but for me personally that guys mental makeup in post season play is concerning.

If we landed Herrera I think that would be the best possibly move we could make. Also I know their owner is a nut job and I'm sure some will call me crazy but I don't think a phone call to Baltimore for Zach Britton is that outlandish. He is making his first appearance tonight in A ball...yes he's injury prone, yes he is coming of Achilles surgery but if we could snag him for a relative Bargin would that be worth rolling the dice to see how he responds? Don't know if that ship has sailed but if lunhow could pull off some trade magic maybe we get lucky for 4 months and Britton is effective again for a playoff run.

bullard21k said:

---

I don't recall the exact details but I want to say we had one of the better bullpens "statistically" for a large portion of last season....and the last month and into the playoffs everyone got rocked. We had no one we could count on and won the WS despite their ineptitude. I'm not concerned as much with our current teams stats as I am looking into the playoffs and who we can count on. You can throw regular season bullpen numbers out the window when you get into post season play as they aren't worth the paper they are written on.

Ken giles stats help paint a picture but if we were in game 5 of the divisional series tonight against the Cleveland Indians and it was a 3-2 game heading to the 9th... mentally that guy terrifies me. Maybe he has a great second half and cruises through the playoffs I don't know, but for me personally that guys mental makeup in post season play is concerning.

If we landed Herrera I think that would be the best possibly move we could make. Also I know their owner is a nut job and I'm sure some will call me crazy but I don't think a phone call to Baltimore for Zach Britton is that outlandish. He is making his first appearance tonight in A ball...yes he's injury prone, yes he is coming of Achilles surgery but if we could snag him for a relative Bargin would that be worth rolling the dice to see how he responds? Don't know if that ship has sailed but if lunhow could pull off some trade magic maybe we get lucky for 4 months and Britton is effective again for a playoff run.

---

Did anyone's bullpen get any outs in the playoffs?

The irony is that the bullpen is over worked right now because they blew two leads which lead to extra innings being pitched

Good point and reinforces the premise that people have a confirmation bias when it comes to their own bullpens. We won critical games in the post season last year by beating and scoring on some of the best, shutdown closers in the game and what were considered to be deep bullpens.

And for the record, I would also like to add another quality arm to the bullpen, but as Joe Smith's production to this point indicates, bullpen arms and results are not always that predictable, even with a strong, established track record. Thus, it is a real risk in giving up way too much for a bullpen arm in a trade.

Here's why I'm not worried about the bullpen. On top of the incredible bad luck that they've had (thanks, as usual, Irish Pete), take a look at this.

We will have a 3 man rotation of three of the following in the playoffs, sending two fantastic arms to the pen:

Cole
Verlander
Morton
Keuchel
McCullers

So take the two of those that won't start, and they become your first bullpen guys.

So the bullpen of guys that will actually see relief innings will look something like:

Keuchel
McCullers
Peacock
Devo
Rondon
Giles
McHugh

Regular season is a marathon that I think we will win, then we go to the postseason with the best stable of great arms in the league.

I want a shutdown closer as much as every other fan of most other teams, but they don't grow on trees.

We will be fine.

Now back to your regularly scheduled anger.

I doubt that they will use a 3-man rotation in the playoffs, much more likely that we'll see a 4-man.

I'm also generally fine with our BP right now. Let's see how the next month goes. My only gripe is how Hinch uses them sometimes. I felt he stepped out of his comfort zone in the playoffs and rode the hot hand. It paid off big time. I want to see less by the book utilization of the BP and go with what you see on the field.

I'm still upset he didn't put Rondon back out there. I know some of you disagree, but as soon as Devo came out I feared he would struggle. I don't like going with guys 3 days in a row. Rondon had just pitched one of the best 1-2-3 innings we've seen from a reliever all year and only had 10 pitches with a taxed BP.

It will be a 4 man rotation just like last year. Either LMJ or CM will go to the pen.

The Milkman said:

---

Mr.Bond said:

---

"we had 30 last year, so stop worrying"

That's what I was told. Regardless we won the WS in spite of Giles inability (and others) not because of

---

Just checked. It was 22

---

Yep, I had originally said 21 (right about what we're on pace for this year), not 30... but let's not get in the way of his temper tantrum.

mathguy86 said:

---

It will be a 4 man rotation just like last year. Either LMJ or CM will go to the pen.

---

My buddy and I were discussing this the other day...if things hold pat I would honestly consider DK in the pen if we don't add another lefty bullpen arm before trade deadline.

Given their stuff I think JV, Cole and Morton are your best three in a playoff scenario.

WelchAg said:

---

I'm also generally fine with our BP right now. Let's see how the next month goes. My only gripe is how Hinch uses them sometimes. I felt he stepped out of his comfort zone in the playoffs and rode the hot hand. It paid off big time. I want to see less by the book utilization of the BP and go with what you see on the field.

I'm still upset he didn't put Rondon back out there. I know some of you disagree, but as soon as Devo came out I feared he would struggle. I don't like going with guys 3 days in a row. Rondon had just pitched one of the best 1-2-3 innings we've seen from a reliever all year and only had 10 pitches with a taxed BP.

---

The other thing - it's May. If Rondon goes 2 innings last night, can he pitch today for the series win if it's a 1 run game?

I would rather not stretching guys past what they are conditioned to do in May. We need that stuff for critical games in September/October.