free_mhayden said:

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Cole Hamels vs Yu Darvish, Game 7 World Series.

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I'll have what you're having

I watched sam dyson close the game against the Cubs.

That 2.22 ERA would sure be nice to have in the bullpen right now

"Change of scenery" = massive coaching failure. On the bright side, they saved a few bucks on Mike Maddux' salary.

And his ****ing tu sip son

97 mph sinker. Can't imagine why he would be good in the late innings....

Verlander with another gem of an outing.

Almost a catch-22 for the Astros as their starting pitching falters again -- if he looks bad, he's not worth it... but now that he continues to look good, it's a lot less likely you'll get him for cheap. 13 other teams will have a chance to claim him before Houston gets the shot.

free_mhayden said:

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Verlander with another gem of an outing.

Almost a catch-22 for the Astros as their starting pitching falters again -- if he looks bad, he's not worth it... but now that he continues to look good, it's a lot less likely you'll get him for cheap. 13 other teams will have a chance to claim him before Houston gets the shot.

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The Rangers should claim him just to say guck you to the Astros

It's a pretty common practice for teams to claim a player just to block another team from doing so (and fail to come to a trade agreement).

A little over a month ago when Verlander's ERA was hovering around 5 and it looked like his days of being a frontline starter may be behind him, the chances of any team claiming him on waivers and potentially having to pay him $28m the next 2 years was pretty remote.

And don't get me wrong, he still has a handful of really bad outings... But over his last 7 starts he's put up an average of almost 7IP and sub 2ER.

He's showing signs that he's still capable of being a 3-4 WAR (or better) pitcher at age 35 or 36.

Some team will take a chance on claiming him before Houston has a chance.

AccidentProne said:

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free_mhayden said:

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Verlander with another gem of an outing.

Almost a catch-22 for the Astros as their starting pitching falters again -- if he looks bad, he's not worth it... but now that he continues to look good, it's a lot less likely you'll get him for cheap. 13 other teams will have a chance to claim him before Houston gets the shot.

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The Rangers should claim him just to say guck you to the Astros

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@$28M for 2018 and 2019, and $22M for 2020... that's cutting off your nose to spite the Stros.

I would think Detroit would happily let him go on a claim.

Looking at the upcoming schedule....other than the weekend series against the Astros (who are playing like **** lately)...Rangers play a bunch bad teams they should beat. They've yet to take care of business against bad teams this season, so I'm not holding my breath but they have a real opportunity to get back into this thing.

gigem1223 said:

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Looking at the upcoming schedule....other than the weekend series against the Astros (who are playing like **** lately)...Rangers play a bunch bad teams they should beat. They've yet to take care of business against bad teams this season, so I'm not holding my breath but they have a real opportunity to get back into this thing.

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As bad as we suck, we're one decent run from being within a game of the wildcard.

Only 4GB right now. Pretty crazy

Houston doesn't have to worry about other teams claiming Verlander at this point, right?

[url] https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2017/08/justin-verlander-placed-on-revocable-waivers.html[/url]

Looks like that is the case, though now that no team has claimed him it comes down to whichever teams offers the best return for Detroit -- which begs the question if a deal wasn't able to be struck at the trade deadline, is it more or less likely now?

Darvish on the bump for the Dodgers tomorrow night

jtstanley4621 said:

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Just randomly decided to look at our prospect list. I think it's safe to assume that Guzman will play 1B for the rangers either this season, or next season. SO I won't include him. There are a couple guys that I'm fascinated to watch develop: Taveras, Calhoun, Ragans, and Matuella.

...

Matuella is interesting too, because they essentially said he has ace-type stuff, but he's obviously struggled pretty hard with some injuries during his time with the Rangers. He's 22 and still only in A ball, I would assume mostly due to injuries stunting his development a bit. But if he can remain healthy, who knows?

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SO:

AAA: Rainout
AA: Tyler Davis (24-RHP): 7.0 IP, 4 H, 1 ER, 5 SO, 1 BB.
A+: Wes Benjamin (24-LHP): 7.0 IP, 6 H, 2 ER, 7 SO, 0 BB
A: Mike Matuella (23-RHP): 5.0 IP, 8 H, 1 ER, 6 SO, 1 BB
A(Sh): Tyree Thompson: 5.0 IP, 5 H, 4 ER, 5 SO, 2 BB
AZL: Bye

Tyler Davis is the guy I said seems to have come out of nowhere.

Quote:

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A: Mike Matuella (23-RHP): 5.0 IP, 8 H, 1 ER, 6 SO, 1 BB

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Really excited to see a line like this from Matuella. His outings have been getting longer - 4 of last 5 he's gone 5 or more. Threw 90 pitches yesterday. Seems to have good control. Just keep extending him out and pray he stays healthy. He certainly has the talent.

And for today...

Thursday Starters:
Round Rock (AAA): TBD
Frisco (AA): Collin Wiles (23, RHP): 8-9, 4.10 ERA
Down East (A+): Jonathan Hernandez (21, RHP): 1-5, 4.40
Hickory (A): TBD
Spokane (A-Sh): Tai Tiedemann (21, RHP): 3-2, 4.40 - 8th Rd 2016

Wiles is the guy I think has tired. It will see if he continues to lose effectiveness, or bounces back.

I haven't really followed Hernandez. Even though he has been in the organization since 2013, most of that is DSL (Dominican) and AZL (Rookie).

RetiredAg said:

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Quote:

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A: Mike Matuella (23-RHP): 5.0 IP, 8 H, 1 ER, 6 SO, 1 BB

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Really excited to see a line like this from Matuella. His outings have been getting longer - 4 of last 5 he's gone 5 or more. Threw 90 pitches yesterday. Seems to have good control. Just keep extending him out and pray he stays healthy. He certainly has the talent.

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Yep. With the way that prospects come up now at such a young age, it's kind of hard to remember that him being 22-23 where he's at is still actually just fine. He just needs to keep getting reps.

jtstanley4621 said:

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RetiredAg said:

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Quote:

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A: Mike Matuella (23-RHP): 5.0 IP, 8 H, 1 ER, 6 SO, 1 BB

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Really excited to see a line like this from Matuella. His outings have been getting longer - 4 of last 5 he's gone 5 or more. Threw 90 pitches yesterday. Seems to have good control. Just keep extending him out and pray he stays healthy. He certainly has the talent.

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Yep. With the way that prospects come up now at such a young age, it's kind of hard to remember that him being 22-23 where he's at is still actually just fine. He just needs to keep getting reps.

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The age thing can be misleading. Some of that is determined by how the team signed the player. Intl'l FA, HS or College.

For Int'l player out of LATAM, they are often signed at 16. Rule V gives a team 5 years of control, before they have to be on the 40. So, a 20 year old LATAM kid could be lost to another team, if left unprotected.

A HS kid, maybe 17-18 gets the same 5 years, so you are looking at 22 or 23.

A kid 19+ (Maybe late grad in HS or college kid) gets 4 years. If you sign Matuella at 21 (IIRC), then the team can stash him until he is 25.

That has a huge impact on how you manage players.

Some teams don't bother with LATAM because you have to invest a ton, and then you may end up losing the kid before he is ready.

Take Yohander Mendez whowas born in Jan 1995.. He was signed in 2011 @ 16. He is 22, debut in 2016 (age 21) and will be Arb eligible in 2020. FA in 2023. Next year will have to be his breakout year or he will likely start to be considered a bust.

Matuella was born June 1994 and signed in 2015. This is the more traditional route. He'll likely be 26 before making his debut.


The 2011 class was huge for the Rangers: Guzman (AAA-22), Odor (MLB-23), Mazara (MLB-22), along with Darvish and Leonys Martin were all part of that class with Mendez (AA-22). If we re-sign Darvish, we could have 5 players signed in that Int'l draft playing at the ML level, 4 of which are under 24.

Quote:

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Take Yohander Mendez whowas born in Jan 1995.. He was signed in 2011 @ 16. He is 22, debut in 2016 (age 21) and will be Arb eligible in 2020. FA in 2023.

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We don't know that.

Given his lack of service time in 2017, the earliest he can reach arbitration is after the 2020 season and the earliest he could reach free agency is after the 2023 season. He has a remaining option, so those milestones can be pushed back even further. He'll turn a healthy 28 the winter of 2023-2024.

As far as Latin America, everyone has a decent investment in the region. You can't compete without mining that talent pool to some extent.

The level of investment varies, but I think that's more to do with other factors than the Rule V draft.

The Rule V draft mattered more before the eligibility requirements were changed from 4 and 3 drafts to 5 and 4 drafts.

TXAggie2011 said:

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Quote:

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Take Yohander Mendez whowas born in Jan 1995.. He was signed in 2011 @ 16. He is 22, debut in 2016 (age 21) and will be Arb eligible in 2020. FA in 2023.

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We don't know that.

Given his lack of service time in 2017, the earliest he can reach arbitration is after the 2020 season and the earliest he could reach free agency is after the 2023 season. He has a remaining option, so those milestones can be pushed back even further. He'll turn a healthy 28 the winter of 2023-2024.

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Help a brother out... how many months are left in the year, AFTER the season ends.

I'll help you out. October is usually the month in which the baseball season ends.

AFTER the 2020 season, begins in November and includes December
AFTER the 2023 season, begins in November and includes December.

Yo was born in January. Winter begins December 21st (in the Northern Hemisphere), so technically yes... he will be 28 in the "winter" realizing only 10 days of the Winter falls into 2023.

For clarity:

We know:

Quote:

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Take Yohander Mendez who was born in Jan 1995.. He was signed in 2011 @ 16. He is 22, debut in 2016 (age 21)

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I project:

Quote:

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Take Yohander Mendez ... will be Arb eligible in 2020. FA in 2023.

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Of course, he could die before then, so don't take any future statements as fact. The point was to illustrate the differences in where players are sourced and how they join the organization... not to declare absolute success.

TXAggie2011 said:

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As far as Latin America, everyone has a decent investment in the region. You can't compete without mining that talent pool to some extent.

The level of investment varies, but I think that's more to do with other factors than the Rule V draft.

The Rule V draft mattered more before the eligibility requirements were changed from 4 and 3 drafts to 5 and 4 drafts.

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Baltimore as an example signed 5 players and likely spent less than 10% of their pool money. Do they have a decent investment in the region?

Relax, child, relax. I'm not trying to start a fight about Mendez. I'm just saying that's the "earliest" and that it can be extended another year with his remaining minor league option. (And I don't think its unlikely the Rangers will use their last option and push his timeline out further.)

Quote:

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Baltimore as an example signed 5 players and likely spent less than 10% of their pool money. Do they have a decent investment in the region?

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They have their Dominican rookie league team again and their scouting network, albeit a recently curtailed scouting network.

The Orioles are famously "frugal" whether it be with prospects from Latin America, North America, or elsewhere. They're not an "example" of anything but themselves.

The only other team with less than 13 signings was the Red Sox, and they're under severe penalties.

And the club with 13 signings, Oakland, has several years been the "big spenders" in Latin America. And even with just 13, they expended their entire bonus pool and then some this season.

https://www.fanragsports.com/mlb/astros/inside-baseball-astros-cautious-ways-will-hurt-october-chances/
[url=https://www.fanragsports.com/mlb/astros/inside-baseball-astros-cautious-ways-will-hurt-october-chances/][/url]
[url=https://www.fanragsports.com/mlb/astros/inside-baseball-astros-cautious-ways-will-hurt-october-chances/][/url]

Quote:

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The Astros, who long suspected the Rangers would be less than anxious to send Yu Darvish in-state and in-division, it turns out didn't try very hard at all for Darvish, either, causing the Rangers, who determined a couple days before the deadline they needed to deal Darvish, to send him to the Dodgers, and turning them from a strong World Series favorite into a prohibitive one. The Dodgers' offer, once again, was said be "easily" the best one to be had. Yet, one rival exec wonders why Houston didn't grab Darvish.

"They could have beaten what the Dodgers offer easily without touching their top four guys," one rival exec said. "He should be an Astro."

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[url=https://www.fanragsports.com/mlb/astros/inside-baseball-astros-cautious-ways-will-hurt-october-chances/][/url]

Only time will tell about the Astros, but they have a plan and they're sticking to it. If they get Correa and others healthy, that's still an AL pennant quality club.

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Yo was born in January. Winter begins December 21st (in the Northern Hemisphere), so technically yes... he will be 28 in the "winter" realizing only 10 days of the Winter falls into 2023.

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Wow, you're really digging deep today, but I'll "help you out" in that "winter" in baseball nomenclature refers to anything between the end of the season and spring training.

The meetings that will take place December 10th-14th aren't going to be called the "Late Fall Meetings" and the practices that will start next February aren't going to be called the "Mid to Late Winter Training."

There risk and reward to be had in terms of hanging on to prospects. I for one believe that if you think you're right on the cusp of getting to a WS, you pull the trigger if you deem it necessary. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. I don't blame our front office for the Beltran and Lucroy trades. They didn't work out the way they were supposed to, but hey at least they TRIED, you know? I'm not saying you should trade all your top guys, but if you see a guy out there that could fill a position of need in a major way, why not pull the trigger? I felt like we did that with Beltran and Lucroy, and although the results weren't great, I'm fine with the attempt.

In the case of the Astros, maybe holding on to their top guys makes them all that much more ridiculous for the years to come. But there's always that chance that they missed out on an opportunity to bolster their club when it was "their" year, if that makes any sense.

This isn't a defense of the Astros, but its always easy to question not acting when you're anyone but the actor himself.

All year, they've been running wild on great hitting and okay pitching. A top-2 hitter goes down, another top-5 hitter goes down...they've struggled to score runs consistently and then you add the McCullers injury and its just a tough series of injuries they're trying to combat.

I've not looked too far back, but its not like every World Series winner made a blockbuster trade or added a real playoff contributor. 2014 Giants traded half a piece and a piece of junk for a struggling Jake Peavy---he helped in the division series but went out and was the SUCK in the rest of the playoffs.

The Astros great success this year stems almost entirely from their putrid 2010-2014 stretch where they basically closed up the stadium.

Those first round draft picks those years netted them Correa, Springer, Bregman, Gattis (via trade) and Giles (via trade)... That sums to around 12.4 fWAR (plus another 2.8 if you include McCullers who was a comp pick before the 2nd round).

So while the idea that they are going to stay good for a really long time by not "going for it" and keeping their farm system stacked seems great in theory, without losing 100 games and the subsequent future "can't miss" draft picks like Correa, Bregman, etc... then production is going to dip significantly unless the front office starts putting a lot of money down.

Which is why it seems crazy to me that you wouldn't "go for it" with the current club -- especially when the price for Darvish/Gray was so low.

Maybe you don't need one of those two starters to win a title... But man, if you come out of the next 2-3 years without a World Series trophy then being one of the historically worst franchises of all-time from 2011-2014 sure doesn't seem worth it for maybe a AL pennant or two. Texas got that and they didn't have to punt for 4 years.