Evan Grant is extremely fair and balanced about this team. Zero issues with this tweet. Tonight's loss was embarrassing.

Is it just me or is JD missing more and more and more and more

So I was watching the Rockies and Giants last night and Dyson came in for the 8th and struck out the side. He's been doing much better lately apparently, and the announcers talked about how much a good pitching coach can help when guys start to have issues.

I heard on the radio this morning that last year (I think that was the time period), teams that trailed by at least 7 runs at some point in a game were 2-244. And the year before, 4-244.

So a pretty historic loss, and had the Yankees finished the deal Sunday night, back-to-back such losses truly would have been historic.

Alabaster Jones said:

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So I was watching the Rockies and Giants last night and Dyson came in for the 8th and struck out the side. He's been doing much better lately apparently, and the announcers talked about how much a good pitching coach can help when guys start to have issues.

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Yep.... At some point I figured Dyson would get back to form. He may have been snakebitten with us this year, but he's eventually going to be back to being useful IMO. I'm so sick of Brocail. He hasn't fixed anything with the bullpen all year. It's at the point where if the starter doesn't go 7 plus innings, no lead feels safe. Add into that that Banister seems incapable of making the correct bullpen decision, and you have a game like last night.

gigem1223 said:

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When the entire staff is struggling with command, at some point you've got to look at Brocail.

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Yeah I mean how many times does it seem like Brocail goes out to the mound to meet with a BP member, and then after he goes back to the dugout they walk the guy, or struggle to throw strikes then let up a hit? That seemed to happen a bunch last night. It's almost laughable at this point.

The thing that made me want to pull my hair out last night was watching the ability and ease of their bullpen throwing strikes versus ours. After the half inning where they cut it to 9-7, their pitcher allowed a single to Napoli and then struck out the side. We brought in Scheppers and I thought to myself "I am nearly certain he will walk this batter to lead it off here." And... sure enough, he did. And then he continued to struggle throwing strikes, as feels typical at this point.

MooreTrucker said:

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I think that points DIRECTLY at Brocail.

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And, of course, seeing what we've seen from Banister in regards to player loyalty, I would imagine that Brocail is not under any pressure in terms of losing his position as pitching coach, even though he absolutely should be.

Another guy I think you have to look at is bullpen coach Brad Holman.

When he first arrived, Brocail said he wanted Holman to be a big part of coaching this pitching staff; that Brocail wanted the pair to work together in coaching.

At the least, they need to reevaluate that relationship to see if something there isn't working how it is supposed to.

And I think all the leadership has responsibility for the bullpen mess.

Some guys just aren't reliable. The bullpen has been trying to hold on for a couple of years now and it's still sliding towards reliance on unproven youth and patently unreliable MLB journeymen. That is mostly Jon Daniels and the front office's fault.

The guys on the staff are not improving. They're coming out and across the board showing the same faults and mistakes repeatedly; they're not showing up with improved pitches and they're not approaching batters correctly. That's on Brocail, Holman, and the support and scouting staff.

Combined with some of the same faults shown by the hitters and fielders, I also wonder if Bannister is not doing a great job identifying issues at the top and setting out to his assistant coaches what he wants them to focus on.

Lastly, they're not being put in positions to succeed, work through problems, or rebuild confidence. They're also not appearing sharp with laser eyes focus, or the ideal attitude on the mound. That's on Bannister, especially the part of putting guys in positions to succeed.

Is it just me or does Brocail just have an incompetent look about him, regardless of results?

He's always walking around with that dumbass clipboard, and I'm always thinking, "hey dip****, the problem is not on a chart. it's right there before your eyes. do some coaching."

It kind of reminds me of when I coached my daughters rec softball teams. We'd have these coaches wandering around with their noses in these giant clipboard tracking who knows what. And my little team would spend the entire time kicking the **** out of their teams because really all you had to do was watch them and provide some coaching on some basic tasks. I know it's a stupid comparison, but I can't help but think of it every time I see him staring at his clipboard while his pitcher is out there getting shelled.

Some of you are all over the place.

I doubt there was one concern about the BP, coming into the season. If you raised a concern, please link it, because I missed it.

The bullpen should have been fine, HOWEVER, BPs are always fickle and unpredictable.

The success so far:
Claudio: 35 GP, 39.0 IP, 2.54 ERA, 1.10 WHIP
Kela: 29 GP, 29.2 IP, 2.73 ERA, 0.91 WHIP <- Demoted to Minors to start season (discipline)
Bush: 28 GP, 27.2 IP, 3.25 ERA, 1.45 WHIP.
Leclerc: 20 GP, 20.2 IP, 3.05 ERA, 1.21 WHIP <- Injured
Alvarez: 19 GP, 14.2 IP, 3.07 ERA, 1.91 WHIP

Not great... but serviceable.

The failure:
Dyson: 17 GP, 10.80 ERA <- Pure failure this season.
Jeffress: 5.46 ERA <- Very volatile/unpredictable.
Barnette: 7.23

NA: Deikman

Just like in years past, you have a RP that blows everything up. You have an injury which forces players into positions/roles they aren't normally used.

Dyson (29) had a 3.88 Career ERA coming to Texas. He leaves with a 3.27, despite the failure, this season.
Dyson had:
1.15 ERA in 2015
2.43 ERA in 2016
10.80 ERA in 2017

Tell me you saw that coming...

Jeffress (29) had the following:
Current Career ERA: 3.23
2016 for Rangers 2.70.
2017 for Rangers 5.46.

Tell me you saw that coming.

Barnette (33) had a 2.09 ERA (53G) last year and a 7.23 ERA this year. He is a gimmick RP. He made his debut at 32, which tells you he is at risk, and hitters appear to have figured him out. That, IMO, was likely predictable.

Whether it is Tolleson, or anyone else... RP is volatile. AL RP ERA for the season is 4.07 and the Rangers team ERA of 4.66 is 12th. The 5 listed above (Bush, Leclerc, Kela, Claudio & Alvarez are fine, but we need 2 more. A decent Dyson & Jeffress should be those 2, but they aren't.

I am no fan of Brocail. I'm not sure what he does. When I think he should go out and slow the game down for guys like Martin Perez, he doesn't. Then, he goes out when I think he shouldn't. He seems more casual and social and many of the pitchers have done worse with him.

For a veteran pitching staff, I think Brocail works fine. Leave them alone and let them do what they know. Hamels, Darvish, Colby... fine. Young guys? Not so much. However, you look at the rotation ERA of 4.33 (5th in AL) and if you'd have told me Hamels would miss 10 of 16 GS, Nick Martinez would have 11 GS, ABD would have 4 GS, Dillon Gee and Claudio each with a GS... and that Andrew Cashner (5.25 ERA in NL, mostly with SD, one of the most pitcher friendly parks) would have 12 GS, we'd be talking mid-1990s rotations worthy.

I think JD put together what he thought was a good pitching staff and Brocail has seen result quite favorable. The 2 exceptions being Dyson and Jeffress.

JD could go out and get a couple RPs. I'm not sure Sadzeck (6'7", 25, RHP) is being transitioned for a call-up as a RP. YoMen (6'5", 22, LHP) has done some RP, so we could see them, before the trade deadline.

Let's review this in September.

I've heard people talking about trading for relief pitchers...

At this point, I would not want us to try and trade for one. Or anyone for that matter. The prospect pipeline isn't great right now, and given the trajectory of the Astros, I don't know if it's worth it to try and make a push this year if it means giving up some future players.

I don't really like Doug Brocail, and never really have, but I don't have any basis for this. I have no idea if he's a good pitching coach or not, and I also question if you can really tell anything from the results the Rangers have received this year. The Rangers have received better than expected results from some questionable starters and some worse than expected results from what we thought were solid bullpen pieces. Maybe he needs to be replaced, maybe that would do nothing to the situation. Mike Maddux, every Ranger fans' favorite pitching coach, is leading a pretty bad bullpen himself up in Washington.

Last night's game sucked, but it wasn't the usual suspects who blew it. Hamels was disappointing, but it was his first game back, so tough to jump to conclusions. For being a bottom of the bullpen guy, Alvarez has been pretty solid this year, but he did little more than pile on the pain for Hamels. Scheppers was a disaster, after having looked really good in his few appearances so far. Alex f'ing Claudio, my favorite bullpen piece, allowed 5 baserunners in getting 3 outs, so unlike him.

Claiborne doesn't count. He's bullpen filler while relevant pieces take some time off to figure things out. The posts blaming JD for him are amusing, he is strictly a pitcher of last resort. Doesn't hurt to see if he's got anything, and when he shows that he doesn't, which is likely, he'll be gone within the week when Barnette is 'healthy'.

DallasAg 94 said:

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Some of you are all over the place.

I doubt there was one concern about the BP, coming into the season. If you raised a concern, please link it, because I missed it.

The bullpen should have been fine, HOWEVER, BPs are always fickle and unpredictable.

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IMO, that still goes back to Brocail. We expected the BP to be a strength of the team, and yet it's been a disaster. What changed? Maddox left, Brocail comes in.

Coincidence?

MooreTrucker said:

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DallasAg 94 said:

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Some of you are all over the place.

I doubt there was one concern about the BP, coming into the season. If you raised a concern, please link it, because I missed it.

The bullpen should have been fine, HOWEVER, BPs are always fickle and unpredictable.

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IMO, that still goes back to Brocail. We expected the BP to be a strength of the team, and yet it's been a disaster. What changed? Maddox left, Brocail comes in.

Coincidence?

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Brocail was here last year too, when many of these guys were productive winning pieces.

Oh yeah? I forgot that, I guess.


Well, then, never mind.

BP's do have a tendency to be fickle. But the trending has been heavily weighted in one direction going back to the latter part of 2016. When guys have a multiple season track record of reasonable success in the majors but then they seem to lose it in a vicious manner with no answer, that really makes me question the coaching they are getting. Tolleson's crash and burn. Then Dyson goes wobbly late last year and completes his crash and burn. Jeffress has been useless. It's a lot more than just fringe guys like Barnette.

IMO, what happened in 2016 just reinforces the Brocail factor. We saw some oil start to leak with a number of these guys last year, and that oil leak turned into a full out deluge by early 2017.

Squirrel Master said:

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I don't really like Doug Brocail, and never really have, but I don't have any basis for this. I have no idea if he's a good pitching coach or not, and I also question if you can really tell anything from the results the Rangers have received this year. The Rangers have received better than expected results from some questionable starters and some worse than expected results from what we thought were solid bullpen pieces. Maybe he needs to be replaced, maybe that would do nothing to the situation. Mike Maddux, every Ranger fans' favorite pitching coach, is leading a pretty bad bullpen himself up in Washington.

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That was my point about Brocail. I don't like him, but can't justify it. SP ERA is incredible compared to what we've rolled out there. Not sure if it is Brocail, but if it is because of Brocail that the BP sucks, it has to be him who has done wonders with Nick, ABD, et al.

Claudio had a frustrating night. No one teed off on him. He gave up a couple ground balls that found holes, and one that was so poorly hit that no one could get to it.

I'm upset at his result last night, but not worried about him.

MooreTrucker said:

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DallasAg 94 said:

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Some of you are all over the place.

I doubt there was one concern about the BP, coming into the season. If you raised a concern, please link it, because I missed it.

The bullpen should have been fine, HOWEVER, BPs are always fickle and unpredictable.

---

IMO, that still goes back to Brocail. We expected the BP to be a strength of the team, and yet it's been a disaster. What changed? Maddox left, Brocail comes in.

Coincidence?

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The same Brocail that got Dyson and Jeffress to perform... is the same that is blamed?

SP...
2017- 4th - 4.33
2016 - 9th - 4.38
------------ Start of the Brocail Era ------------

------------ End of the Mike Maddux Era ------------
2015 - 11th - 4.32
2014 - 14th - 4.75
2013 - 7th - 3.99
2012 - 8th - 4.30
2011 - 3rd - 3.65
2010 - 7th - 4.23
2009 - 7th - 4.61
------------ Start of the Mike Maddux Era ------------
2008 - 13th - 5.51
2007 - 14th - 5.50
2006 - 12th - 5.11

There is no question before Maddux showed up SP was abysmal. The fact he got a rotation ranked 3rd in the AL should deserve a statue in the new stadium. However, when he left, the rotation was on decline. Martinez never developed. Martin Perez, Harrison, Holland, et al, never established themselves. Aside from the 2011 season, he has been "at or below AL average."

This season has had nothing but smoke-and-mirrors.

2011 had
CJ Wilson: 34 GS
Colby: 32 GS
Holland: 32 GS
Harrison: 30 GS
Dave Bush: 3 GS
Feldman: 2 GS.
We had 5 GS by someone other than the Spring Training SP.

Compare that to 2017
Darvish: 16 GS <- Opening Day
Perez: 15 GS <- Day 2 starter
AJG: 8 GS <- Day 4 starter
Hamels: 6 GS <- Day 3 starter
<Skipped 5th day>

We really started with 4 SPs

Nick Martinez: How many on here have relegated him to being a minor leaguer?
ABD: Seriously? Dude was picked up off of the Independent league. MLB debut at 32.

Cashner and Ross were both on the DL.

Our rotation has been spectaculer, in 2017.

DannyDuberstein said:

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BP's do have a tendency to be fickle. But the trending has been heavily weighted in one direction going back to the latter part of 2016. When guys have a multiple season track record of reasonable success in the majors but then they seem to lose it in a vicious manner with no answer, that really makes me question the coaching they are getting. Tolleson's crash and burn. Then Dyson goes wobbly late last year and completes his crash and burn. Jeffress has been useless. It's a lot more than just fringe guys like Barnette.

IMO, what happened in 2016 just reinforces the Brocail factor. We saw some oil start to leak with a number of these guys last year, and that oil leak turned into a full out deluge by early 2017.

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But a lot of the guys you reference weren't guys with multiple seasons of track record. The Rangers got Tolleson off waivers from LAD in 2014 after he was DFA'd. He was used as a middle reliever in 2014 and made the closer for 2015 after having a solid year. With basically less than a season of closing under his belt, people weren't real pleased with him as a closer, and were looking to move him. He started 2016 terrible and was gone.

Dyson was acquired for 2015 from MIA for spare parts. He was a serviceable middle reliever, who became a very nice backend piece, and then ended up falling apart himself.

Jeffress had been a solid bullpen piece for several years in MIL and fits the bill you're describing. His peripherals last year I think I recalled pointing to a guy who should regress some, but his current performance goes way past just a little regression. He has a pitching reportoire similar to Dyson's, and seems to be having similar problems. I don't know how to explain that. I do think it was too bad he got the DWI last year which led to his leaving the team for awhile and then not really being a playoff piece. He should have been a nice setup guy to have in a very solid playoff bullpen.

Oh I agree for sure. But those groundballs were solidly hit for the most part. I'm not worried about him either, but I also don't think he purely got unlucky with guys eeking out hits on his best stuff last night.

In my eyes, we have Bush, Kela, and Claudio as bullpen options and then basically have to limp our way through getting outs otherwise. As a result, when a starter struggles like Hamels did (which is another issue altogether because that is not what your ace is supposed to do) and leaves a bunch of guys on in an earlier inning than let's say the 7th, you're in trouble big time. Because frankly there's not a great answer for a situation like that.

Add to that that Banister seems to always press the wrong buttons with who to bring in in situations like that, and you have a recipe for disaster.

Some of us spent much of last season in an epic back and forth about whether the bullpen had enough arms; and some have been all over the bullpen since day 1 of this season.

I don't recall predicting anything either way about this bullpen at the start. But it's irrelevant. We have 3 months of data and it's not good.

The business is about results; not predictions.

Quote:

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The same Brocail that got Dyson and Jeffress to perform... is the same that is blamed?[

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There is hardly a stat for Jeffress that wasn't worse in his stint with the Rangers than it was with the Brewers last season.

Walks up, strikeouts down, WHIP up, ERA up.

And he's been bad to terrible this season.

That's not a success story for Brocail.


Dyson...he was excellent for the Rangers in 2015, very good in 2016 (but didn't do what he hasn't done before) and was terrible in 2017.

I'll say Brocail had him pitch pretty good for parts of his stint here but it's again not a true success story for Brocail.

Back from my weeklong ban.

Still not sure what to think of Bush.

Offense looks solid

Starting pitching has been solid, all things considered

Only thing missing is a serviceable bullpen, and I don't really think we're gonna be able to develop one with the pieces we have. Seems like Brocail has some of these starters overachieving and most of the bullpn guys underachieving

What'd you get banned for?

jtstanley4621 said:

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What'd you get banned for?

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A week ago today was the CWS game against TCU

Whatever it was....I'm sure it was well worth it