***Rangers vs A's***

32,244 Views | 340 Replies | Last: 10 yr ago by Mr Gigem
mhayden
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quote:
Just oiinting out that they built the lineup around him last year, paid him $20 mill, and got zilch. So If that doesn't qualify as an albatross, I don't know what does. Let me know when they start keeping score.


So by that definition is Yu Darvish now an albatross?

Ignoring that a 1 year sample size on a 5+ year contract is a horrible way to judge, to do so in an year where the player was lost to injury and by all accounts is healthy now is even worse.
DallasAg 94
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About what to expect all season.

Give up 8 ERs
Get 1 H
Commit 1 E

Going to be a LONG season.

To complain about trades or contracts is midget minded.

This team needs A LOT. It needs SP, it needs RP, it needs Offense and it needs Defense.

Gotta ride it out. Get some experience and play for 2016.

Too Early to start looking for 2016?
mhayden
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Just 1 game, but concerning to me that the two areas where we would hopefully be average to above average (fielding and hitting) both looked bad tonight.

We knew the pitching would suck.
Spartacus
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Too Early to start looking for 2016?
Yes, post All Star break unless someone offers a blockbuster deal for a lot of proven potential for one of the older big names.

rather be fishing
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Nope, said it last year. And its not about the contract amount, its about what you could get for him that is more long term serviceable. As you can tell from my posts, I do not think the Rangers will contend with Darvish contract term, or Beltre's health.

If we are in contention, I would see Yu's value.



I see your point. Holding on to Darvish after last season was a grasp at having a little bit of stability in the rotation, just sucks he went down so close to the opener. However, they should have known that he was injured after someone of the DL time he sat out last year. May have been a reason they didn't make a move with him, knowing he wouldn't pass a physical.

Beltre is the only person on the team worth a damn, and he doens't have many more years, at this point you're basically giving him a loyalty bonus.

Fielder was a terrible trade. Should have been able to get a lot more than a big, slow mound of injury.
Spartacus
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Don't get me wrong, Darvish would be THAT PITCHER for someone, just not this team.
mhayden
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At what point in the season last year were you for trading Darvish?

You do realize that a trade of Darvish last year, by your own admission, raises the white flag on the 2015 and 2016 seasons.

So that Prince Fielder trade? A waste.

The Choo signing? A waste.

But also throw in Derek Holland.

And 2 years of Martin Perez.

Better move Beltre too.


We're not the Florida Marlins or the Oakland Athletics -- the days of burning the whole thing to the ground and rebuilding doesn't happen with big market teams.

The prospects that you got back for Darvish wouldn't be ready to be relied on a the big league level until Holland and Perez are close to being on their way out... So then IF the prospects pan out, you then have to go looking for an ace again.

Conceding 4 years to maybe get some prospects that might help you contend in 2017 is dumb.
DannyDuberstein
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A team that needs everything being committed to $50-60 mill/year on andrus, choo, and fielder thru 2020 or so seems reasonable to at least debate. There were plenty of questions at the outset on all 3 deals, and finding their way out if the darkness is going to involve those players in some way - whether its they start producing more, find a way to dump them, or some combination. But i apologize for being midget minded.

Again, they chose this path prior to 2014 and I was (and am) fine for seeing what 2015 holds vs conducting a firesale during last season. But those 3 are a big part if why they are where they are now, and will be a big part of the future direction - For better or worse.
Spartacus
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Conceding 4 years to maybe get some prospects that might help you contend in 2017 is dumb.
No, 2016 with the right trades.

Let me pose a different question, if you can't compete in 2016, or 2017, how dumb was it you didn't make a move when you were already toast in July 2014? Plus, you are banking on a heck of a lot of rehabs in 2015.


And I hope I am wrong FWIW







S.A.Aggie2006
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quote:
quote:
Nope, said it last year. And its not about the contract amount, its about what you could get for him that is more long term serviceable. As you can tell from my posts, I do not think the Rangers will contend with Darvish contract term, or Beltre's health.

If we are in contention, I would see Yu's value.



I see your point. Holding on to Darvish after last season was a grasp at having a little bit of stability in the rotation, just sucks he went down so close to the opener. However, they should have known that he was injured after someone of the DL time he sat out last year. May have been a reason they didn't make a move with him, knowing he wouldn't pass a physical.

Beltre is the only person on the team worth a damn, and he doens't have many more years, at this point you're basically giving him a loyalty bonus.

Fielder was a terrible trade. Should have been able to get a lot more than a big, slow mound of injury.
fielder has never had an injury till last year fyi.
S.A.Aggie2006
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Sonny gray is the real deal, I faced him on my season opener of mlb the show 2015 and only won 1-0 granted I had yu pitch a 9 inning shutout
Kyle98
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Is Aggs4Life back with a couple of new accounts or something? It's 1 freaking game into the season and the sky is already falling.....

At least wait until the A's sweep us to declare that it's time to blow this thing up.
AggieDPT
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Is Aggs4Life back with a couple of new accounts or something? It's 1 freaking game into the season and the sky is already falling.....

At least wait until the A's sweep us to declare that it's time to blow this thing up.


Jesus I had forgotten about him. Spartacus is making a strong push to be even more emotional and intolerable than him so far.
Kyle98
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quote:
quote:
Is Aggs4Life back with a couple of new accounts or something? It's 1 freaking game into the season and the sky is already falling.....

At least wait until the A's sweep us to declare that it's time to blow this thing up.


Jesus I had forgotten about him. Spartacus is making a strong push to be even more emotional and intolerable than him so far.
Yeah, I had too, until I read through this thread this morning. I made it about 4 innings last night before I had to get some sleep. Woke up and checked out the thread, and that's the first thing I thought of, ol' A4L.
DallasAg 94
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A team that needs everything being committed to $50-60 mill/year on andrus, choo, and fielder thru 2020 or so seems reasonable to at least debate. There were plenty of questions at the outset on all 3 deals, and finding their way out if the darkness is going to involve those players in some way - whether its they start producing more, find a way to dump them, or some combination. But i apologize for being midget minded.

Again, they chose this path prior to 2014 and I was (and am) fine for seeing what 2015 holds vs conducting a firesale during last season. But those 3 are a big part if why they are where they are now, and will be a big part of the future direction - For better or worse.
My point is none of those 3 players on their own affect this team in a great way.

Let's pretend we don't make the Fielder v Kinz trade. Moreland likely plays first and Odor is in the minors. Kinz is on the hook for $16M.
Let's pretend we don't sign Andrus to 8yrs/$118m ($14.74M/yr), but 8yrs/$80M ($10M/yr).
Let's pretend we don't sign Choo to 7yr/$130M. He gets $14M for 2015.

So we get $8M for Fielder + $4.75M for Andrus and $14M for Choo = $26.75M

We need an OF for Choo and a 1B. And we need a LF, 3 SPs and a handful of RPs. $30M isn't enough to fill the holes we have via FA.

I think Odor (21). I like Rua (25). I like Nick Martinez and Nick Tepesch. I think I've been following Mendez since 2011, when he was with Hickory. I'm excited about a lot of the young guys, I'm just not ready to declare them as MLB players.

SO many things have not gone the Rangers way... but that is the case with most teams. Every team loses players to injury. Many people here (myself included) were looking for the Rangers to trade Profar to St. Louis. The OF most of us wanted ended up being killed in a car accident.

Our OF needs help because Hamilton left. That worked out regardless of how much we could have signed him. Cliff Lee is another bullet dodged. I don't think Chris Davis was a huge loss. Nobody knew he'd be approved for an exemption by MLB for a banned substance.

AFAIK, none of the minor leaguers we traded have done much. I think many are on opening day rosters.
For example the Cubs: Grimm (RP), Ramirez (RP) and Olt (3B).

Losing Darvish was huge. A 2015 team with a healthy Darvish, Harrison and Profar is much different. But, there isn't any guarantee we could align replacements easily. We were concerned about losing Darvish because of Cy Young voting. Everyone loses players, and we just have to grind out this year with hopes we find out about players. Players like Nick Martinez, Rua, Odor, Chi-Chi. We have Gallo, Alfaro and Jackson who can help in 2016.

Choo, Fielder and Andrus can still have a successful 2015, so we could still be in the mix if everything aligns best case. If not, I'd like to see them unload.

One more point... I think JD has this year to get the Rangers on the right trajectory or he'll be gone.

He has had to rebuilt almost the entire organization - Front office, scouting, minors... That happens when you have a successful organization. It is what makes it so hard to sustain... people come and take your talent on and off the field.
mhayden
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The problem is how far back do you want to back-date the "we should have traded and rebuilt"?

To say we should have traded Darvish last year when it was obvious we weren't going to compete. Ok, so you trade away your ace for a major prospect haul a month signing/trading for two "win now" long contracts in Choo and Fielder.

Ok so we shoudln't have signed/traded for Choo and Fielder? Because we weren't going to compete in 2014? Texas closed out 2013 one game away from the playoffs after having their #1 starter go down in the first week and their top slugger suspended for PEDs for the last two months.. Perez pitched half a season that year and showed he was every bit capable of being a legitimate starting pitcher, so you looked to walk into 2014 with Yu Darvish, Matt Harrison, Derek Holland and Martin Perez as your #1-4. That's not just a decent rotation, that would have been one of the best young rotations in baseball -- but the offense was already #7 in the league and it looked as though Cruz would be leaving... So it needed offense. So Texas went out and got two big offensive pieces.

Trying to back-date it any further than 2013 implies we shouldn't have signed Darvish in the first place after back-to-back World Series appearances and that's just ridiculous.


You can't "plan" for this:


2012: Your best power hitter absolutely takes a **** the last series of the season, including "mis-playing" a routine fly-ball and then laughing about it. Rangers had a 5 game lead with 9 games to play (6 of which were at home), and they managed to lose the division and wind up losing in the Wildcard game.
You lock up Darvish, Harrison, Holland and Perez on long-term deals for team-friendly $$$ amounts in a move that is universally looked upon as great.

2013: Two games into the season your #1 pitcher (Harrison) goes down for the year. The last two months of the season your best slugger gets suspended for PED use. You still go 28-22 over the last two months and force a 1 game playoff, but lose.

2014: Before the season even starts your #2 pitcher (Holland) is basically out for the year. Four games into his season, your #3 pitcher (Harrison) goes out for the year. Eight games into his season your #4 pitcher (Perez) goes out for the year. The big bat you acquired never looks right and is shelved 40 games into the season.

2015: Before the season even starts your #1 pitcher (Darvish) goes down for the year.

Even ignoring the Fielder/Choo/Profar injuries and the Cruz suspension... In 2013 you lost your #1. In 2014 you lost your #2, #3 and #4. In 2015 you lost your #1 while still waiting for the previous years #3 and #4 to return.

You simply cannot have a "gameplan" for that -- "woulda shoulda" on trades just does not apply.
PatriotAg02
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Hoping it was just Gray and not an omen for the season. I was really looking forward to an improved ball club. Last summer was so boring because I didn't have a team to watch. Hoping they kick it in and are competitive.
TMACsDaMan
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Martin needs to change his approach if he's going to be relied as the leadoff hitter. In his 4 at bats last night, he saw a total of 14 pitches. That number needs to be closer to 18-21. In two of his at bats he saw only 2 pitches. Start working the count damnit!!!

Wait...I just realized...Magadan is still our hitting coach. FACEPALM!!!
DallasAg 94
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And I forgot Perez. How did I not include him.

Darvish - TJ
Harrison - Back
Holland - Knee
Perez - TJ

Brutal.

For 2016, Darvish, Holland, Perez, Gonzalez & Jackson is worth hoping for.
MSFC Aggie
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quote:
Spartacus is making a strong push to be even more emotional and intolerable than him (A4L) so far.
I don't think this is possible
Spartacus
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I think I need to go get a beer with Ag4Life.
JerryAg5.0
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Actually if I remember correctly he was referred to as Queef4life by the end of his posting era
AggieDPT
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Actually if I remember correctly he was referred to as Queef4life by the end of his posting era


Q4L
DallasAg 94
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BRUTAL poster.

Is it the same person who posts on Politics?! S/He is just terrible.
Aggie_3
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BRUTAL poster.

Is it the same person who posts on Politics?! S/He is just terrible.


Just ask him about homestead
rather be fishing
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BROKE UP THE NO HITTER!
AggieDPT
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And....Elvis with a first pitch DP
DannyDuberstein
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5.6 earthquake detected when Fielder hit the deck.
Spartacus
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I missed L Martin's hit, where did he hit it?
Aggie_3
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Colby made some good pitches to the first batter
Aggie_3
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Damn to bad not a strike because that throw was perfect
DannyDuberstein
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Getting squeezed.
AggieDPT
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Then he booted it and walked the next guy on 4 pitches.
DannyDuberstein
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Beltre
Aggie_3
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This strikes zone is tinier than a newborns testicals
 
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