sports.yahoo.com/blogs/mlb-big-league-stew/evening-shade-adrian-beltre-hall-fame-chances-stephen-213046596--mlb.html

[This message has been edited by AWP 97 (edited 8/28/2012 7:01p).]

Hall of Very Good. Re-evaluate in a few seasons.

Hall of very good? what?

his numbers for a solid decade before he joined the red sox in 2010. The guy was not a hall of very good player throughout that decade. Don't let a random 3 year stretch of greatness cloud the fact that he was literally a collective average player with some pop over that 10 year stretch (which includes his monster contract year run)

Year Tm G PA AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI SB CS BB SO BA OBP SLG OPS OPS+ TB GDP HBP SH SF IBB
1998-2009 LAD,SEA 1681 6877 6285 828 1700 348 26 250 906 111 38 478 1084 .270 .325 .453 .779 105 2850 153 53 14 47 55




[This message has been edited by Token (edited 8/28/2012 11:32p).]

[This message has been edited by Token (edited 8/28/2012 11:34p).]

Hall of Pretty Good?

Let me be clear, he would need a few more huge seasons for me to begin to consider him for the Hall, yet alone say he belonged. It is very telling that he's having a monster week and had a terrific streak of season's on some of baseball's best and most visible teams...and people are still "meh" to "not quite" on the Hall of Fame. If the excitement isn't there now, it certainly won't be there in 10 years.

[This message has been edited by TXAggie2011 (edited 8/28/2012 11:57p).]

steroids bro

I pulled up his baseball-ref page

Here are his similar batter through age 32

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imilar Batters through 32
View Similar Player Links in Pop-up
Compare Stats to Similars

Ron Santo (918) *
Cal Ripken (857) *
Del Ennis (855)
Shawn Green (849)
Carl Yastrzemski (842) *
Aramis Ramirez (837)
Scott Rolen (836)
Al Kaline (836) *
Brooks Robinson (833) *
Orlando Cepeda (833) *

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Not a bad list.

He's not a HoFer in my mind right now, but to say he's nowhere close is disingenuous.

Post WWII Hall of Fame third baseman...

Eddie Matthews, Brooks Robinson, Mike Schmidt, George Brett, Paul Molitor, Wade Boggs, Ron Santo, George Kell.

Beltre isn't close to some of those guys, perhaps he should try broadcasting and hope the veteran's committee will bite? Nah, they'll remember Chipper, A-Rod, Wright, etc... before Adrian Beltre.

[This message has been edited by TXAggie2011 (edited 8/29/2012 12:55a).]

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Hall of Pretty Good?

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I would say he is closer to the "Hall of slightly above average, but with potential for a big year once a decade".

He belongs nowhere close to the Hall of Fame. If he can put together another 3 or 4 years at his current level of production, that changes.

David Wright?

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Hall of Pretty Good?

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I would say he is closer to the "Hall of slightly above average, but with potential for a big year once a decade".

He belongs nowhere close to the Hall of Fame. If he can put together another 3 or 4 years at his current level of production, that changes.

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You must be blind, deaf, and mentally handicapped, or just plain hating. For the third straight year now he has been arguably the best 3rd baseman in the Major Leagues (his last two years as a Ranger are just ridiculous). There is no reason to believe he won't continue to produce/play like this through his career as a Ranger. I am not saying he should be sure fire HoF, but to say he is only slightly above average is just idiocy and ignorance, at their worst.

If he can play 5+ years and avg 150 hits a season, he'll get to 3000...hof

1. I need an explanation for his 2004 season. (even Luis Gonzalez thinks that HR spike looks suspicious) Not to mention putting up those kind of numbers playing 81 games at Dodger Stadium.

2. And defensively, oh my, before he got to Arlington: "hands of stone" and then some. Forget the gold gloves -- those were due to offensive numbers

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2. And defensively, oh my, before he got to Arlington: "hands of stone" and then some. Forget the gold gloves -- those were due to offensive numbers

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That's just flat out wrong. He was amazing defender with the Dodgers and Mariners.

Have a hard time believing 2004 wasn't aided in some way....

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For the third straight year now he has been arguably the best 3rd baseman in the Major Leagues

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Someone has forgotten Detroit signed Prince Fielder and Miguel Cabrera moved back to 3rd base. Just give it a few years, and "Miguel Cabrera, 3rd Base" will catch on.

David Wright's outplayed Beltre this season, too.

But yes, Beltre has had a few pretty good seasons lately.

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For the third straight year now he has been arguably the best 3rd baseman in the Major Leagues

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Someone has forgotten Detroit signed Prince Fielder and Miguel Cabrera moved back to 3rd base. Just give it a few years, and "Miguel Cabrera, 3rd Base" will catch on.

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The defensive Grand Canyon between Beltre & Miggy is more than enough to overcome the gap between them offensively.

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For the third straight year now he has been arguably the best 3rd baseman in the Major Leagues

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Someone has forgotten Detroit signed Prince Fielder and Miguel Cabrera moved back to 3rd base. Just give it a few years, and "Miguel Cabrera, 3rd Base" will catch on.

David Wright's outplayed Beltre this season, too.

But yes, Beltre has had a few pretty good seasons lately.

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David Wright?? He has been very good, but not Beltre. Beltre will most assuredly end this season with his 2nd straight gold glove, and with considerably more Homers than Wright, as well as more RBI's. Likely more hits as well. About the only thing Weight does better is take walks.

BA: Advantage Wright (.319 to .313)
OBP: Advantage Wright (.411 to .351)
SLG%: Advantage Beltre (.528 to .516)
OPS: Advantage Wright (.928 to .879)

2B: Advantage Wright (36 to 27)
3B: Advantage Wright (2 to 1)
HR: Advantage Beltre (25 to 17)

H: Advantage Beltre (152 to 147)
SB: Advantage Wright (12 to 1)
CS: Advantage Beltre (0 to 10)
BB: Advantage Wright (74 to 29)
SO: Advantage Beltre (62 to 89)
IBB: Advantage Wright (16 to 4)

RBI: Advantage Beltre (81 to 78)


1 Year Park Factor: Advantage Wright (95 to 106)
3 Year Park Factor: Advantage Wright (95 to 112)

Beltre Away Splits: .283/.321/.471
Wright Away Splits: .341/.428/.556



Fielding %: Tie (.968)
Range Factor/9: Advantage Wright (2.54 to 2.30)
Defense WAR: Advantage Wright (1.8 to 0.9)
UZR: Advantage Beltre (8.0 to 7.3)



Let me know if I need to keep going.

[This message has been edited by TXAggie2011 (edited 8/29/2012 2:39p).]

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The defensive Grand Canyon between Beltre & Miggy is more than enough to overcome the gap between them offensively.

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Offensive gap...

Cabrera: .325/.391/.584
Beltre: .313/.351/.528

Cabrera (Home): .333/.402/.675
Beltre (Home): .340/.377/.576

Cabrera (Away): .318/.380/.500
Beltre (Away): .283/.321/.471



Defense Grand Canyon...

dWAR : Beltre 0.9, Cabrera 0.2
RF/9 : Cabrera 2.54, Beltre 2.38
Fielding % : Beltre .968, Cabrera .967
UZR : Beltre 8.0, Cabrera -6.3

No need to provide defensive stats. Anyone who has watched the 2 play this year knows there is not really a comparison between the 2 defensively.

[This message has been edited by keithd03 (edited 8/29/2012 2:50p).]

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Beltre isn't close to some of those guys, perhaps he should try broadcasting and hope the veteran's committee will bite? Nah, they'll remember Chipper, A-Rod, Wright, etc... before Adrian Beltre

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Yeah...i'm a Wright fan. I guess my question was does he really belong in the list of Chipper and gAroid, as in, pretty much locks for the HOF already.

Wright's a stud, but career wise he's no closer than Beltre IMO. Both have a bit to go.

That's fair. Yeah, I totally agree that Wright does not belong to stand next to Chipper and A-Rod quite yet, and maybe never will.

I'm just thinking that history will look back at Wright more favorably than Beltre.

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UZR : Beltre 8.0, Cabrera -6.3

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Yup.

Beltre is no spring chicken. He is 33. Factor that in the plans.

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For the third straight year now he has been arguably the best 3rd baseman in the Major Leagues

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Yeah, almost 3 years of being a top 5 player at your position is HOF worthy. Of course, that comes after being a borderline bust for the last 5 years. How many HOFers were considered under-performers from age 26-30?

I admit that I was exagerating when I said "slightly above average", and "solid starter with all star potential" would be more accurate.

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There is no reason to believe he won't continue to produce/play like this through his career as a Ranger

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Exactly how long do you think he is going to be with the Rangers? At 33, it is very reasonable to expect his numbers to start decreasing over the next couple years.

Of course, I am completely ignoring the bizarre statistical spike of his 04 season, and the fact he suddenly learned how to hit for average at age 31.

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At 33, it is very reasonable to expect his numbers to start decreasing over the next couple years.

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He's arguably declined a little since last year, which was a decline from 2010.

IMO, in 10-20 years, folks are going to look back at Beltre's era and the 3rd base hierarchy will look something like...

Chipper, A-Rod

Wright, Longoria

Beltre, Rolen

Chavez, Aramis Ramirez, etc...



Beltre will be viewed as a terrific player, but he's not nearly good enough offensively to differentiate himself from many of his contemporaries. The fact that some of our most diehard Ranger fans around here aren't calling him a HoFer speaks volumes of his candidacy. The eye test, if you will, he doesn't pass it, much like Harrison and the Cy Young.

[This message has been edited by TXAggie2011 (edited 8/29/2012 11:21p).]

Beltre is better than Wright, and has been for the last 3 years (2010-2012). More hits, homers, RBI's, and better BA over that timespan than David. Over that same time span, Beltre has had a better SLG% every year, and only this year has Wright had a better OPS, Beltre with the advantage in '10 & '11. There are no signs of that changing in the years to come. Again, eye test, you don't need to look at stats to see what Beltre does defensively, just watch the man play. He regularly makes plays at 3rd base no other guys in baseball can make, sometimes plays no other guys would even attempt. He will hands down win his 2nd straight Gold Glove as a Ranger with no sign he won't be looking to win another in 2013.

And, oh yeah, let me know when Adam Wright joins Adam Kennedy, George Brett, Reggie Jackson, Albert Pujols, Bob Robertson, Babe Ruth, and Adrian Beltre on the list of guys with a 3 HR playoff game. Oh wait, don't waste your time on that one, it will never happen.

Hey, A4L, you got a little something on your shirt there. Nothing too bad, just a couple of little white drops. And you might want to wipe the dirt off your knees before you go out in public today.