How is gary carter in the hall of fame?

.262 career avg
324 home runs

no doubt he was a great player, but HOF material? i just dont see it.

324 HRs is 40th All-Time in the NL.

You can't dismiss the fact he is compared to catchers, and not the general DH/1B populace. He is 4th All-Time in Games Caught at 2,056. We can argue whether Pudge benefited with the PED era.

#1 Pudge:.297/310HR
#2 Carlton Fisk (2226 Games Caught): .269/376HRs
#3 Bob Boone (2225): .254/105HR
#4 Gary Carter (2056)
#5 Tony Pena (1950): .260/107HR
#6 Jim Sundberg (1927): .248/95HR

Piazza: .308/427HRs

Its what makes the whole 'Roid Era ridiculous. It allowed catchers like Pudge and Piazza to give offensive numbers that are considered ridiculous for their position.

He was one of best catchers in baseball for over a decade. He was pretty damn good. Borderline HoF but probably deserves it. One factor was Carter's attitude. He always enjoyed playing, like Puckett or Banks.

He also tooted his own horn more than anybody. From first day, Carter spent a lot of time telling us how awesome he was.

[This message has been edited by birdman (edited 5/8/2011 5:31p).]

He recieved 1.93 shares of MVP voting is 95th all-time-more than a large number of Hall of Famers.

He led the league 3 years in the the caught stealing %. Was in the top 3 another 4 seasons.

He was a terrific hitter as far as catchers come for around a decade. That skill mixed with the longevity of it is impressive.

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He recieved 1.93 shares of MVP voting is 95th all-time-more than a large number of Hall of Famers.

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I've never heard of this statistic. can you explain it?

I thought Carter was borderline too

played in relative obscurity in Montreal for 10 years. An 11-time all-star. Only guy on the 1986 world champion mets with an ounce of character. I guess he is/will be the only hall of famer from that famous/notorious team.

There were so few above average catchers in the national league in 70's and 80's. It was only Bench, Carter, and Ted Simmons.

By the way Simmons was a much better hitter than Carter. In 1975 Simmons caught 154 games for the cardinals, hit .322, drove in 100, and only struck out 35 times in 581 at-bats. That was a remarkable season

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I've never heard of this statistic. can you explain it?

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"Shares" are the percentage of the maximum number of vote points a player can recieve in a single MVP balloting that a player actually recieved in voting. That maximum being however many ballots were cast times the point value for a first place vote.

In a given year, a unanimous MVP choice would recieve 100% or 1.0 shares. If a guy got 25 points out of, say, 100 maximum points, he would have 0.25 shares (even if he didn't get a single 1st place vote).

Over the course of Gary Carter's career, he recieved a total of 1.93 shares during MVP voting.


I hope that makes some sense.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/awards/awards_1980.shtml#NLmvp

Here's the 1980 MVP results.

Mike Schmidt was a unanimous choice with every first place vote and 336 points. He recieved 1.0 shares.

Gary Carter was second with 193 points which is 57% of 336. He recieved 0.57 shares.

Ah, I think I understand.

So let's say you were the second best player in the NL, while Barry Bonds was winning his million MVPs. You consistently finished second behind him. While you might not have any MVPs, you have a very high career MVP share percentage.

I am not a Gary Carter fan but there are far worse catchers let alone players in the HOF. His numbers are somewhat misleading to todays fan considering the Roid/HGH era. Those Montreal teams with Catrer, Dawson, Raines, and Steve Rogers were picked year in and year out to win, but just couldn't get it done. I hated him with the Mets, but that is more so the Mets than him. I do think though that Ted Simmons, as W pointed out, deserves more considersation considering Carters inclusion.

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He was one of best catchers in baseball for over a decade.

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The really interesting this about this is that I always thought that Boone was the best of this group (Fisk, Carter, Boone). Boone isn't in the HOF and I guess he shouldn't be on stats alone, but back in those days, if you polled 100 sportswriters on who is the best behind the plate, I'd bet that Boone would have had at least half of the votes.

[This message has been edited by Say Chowdah (edited 5/9/2011 9:51p).]

When Carter was young, he was better than Boone defensively. Boone was consistent for longer time though. Probably give Boone slight edge defensively.

But Carter was great hitter, especially for catcher. Boone was below average, even for catcher.

MVP shares are pretty simple. Who's in the running for MVP, year after year? It gives credit to guys like Piazza, who never won but were in the top 5 many times.

Just on a personal level I'm glad he is getting in, when I was a kid he was one if my favorite non astros.

I remember making a trade for his 1975 topps rookie card and being very happy about that (blockbuster) deal that I had pulled off.

Will Fudge make it?

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Will Fudge make it?

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I am not sure. It allways seemed to me he was carried by ice cream and Sunday a little to much for me to justify him.