As people that expanded the game internationally, not as players. Sorry. That's the reality of the basketball hall of fame. It's as much impact as it is skill based. Bosh is the far and away better player, Vlade had the bigger impact, because he contributed to basketballs expansion in Europe. That's why Vlade made it, it's why Yao made it only playing 486 games in the NBA and Bosh will make it on his skill and achievements in the NBA.

The threshold of getting in the basketball hall of fame is the lowest in the 4 major US sports. That's my point. If the basketball hall of fame was as hard to get into as baseball's neither Vlade nor Bosh would be in.

Put it this way, there is no one in NBA history with a similar resume to Bosh's that isn't in the Hall of Fame. Not even anyone close.

All those players made it into the HOF as players, not as contributors, which is a separate category.

Battered.Ag said:

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Southlake said:

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Great player! Loved him. Slightly underrated. Would have shone more if he didn't play at Miami.

But, not HOF.

Somebody has to be on the edge...

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he was a franchise guy in Toronto, and gave it up voluntarily to join Miami big 3. Chris Bosh will be in the HOF. it's not even a question

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I don't think that not being able to be "the man" and going a team where the path is easier because you can be the 3rd option should be celebrated or cited as a point in favor of HOF-worthiness.

He will get in because of the era he played and championships with the heat. I think he would be closer to Jermaine ONeal 2.0 if he had been drafted around the same time (1996).

Appelt_Ag09 said:

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He will get in because of the era he played and championships with the heat. I think he would be closer to Jermaine ONeal 2.0 if he had been drafted around the same time (1996).

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Jermaine ONeal is a good comparison. Except Jermaine ONeal had more injuries to deal with, but still managed 3x more All-NBA teams than Bosh.

Guitarsoup said:

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All those players made it into the HOF as players, not as contributors, which is a separate category.

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Their contribution to the game is a consideration for players and contributors alike. Contributors are mostly people that were not on-court participants (Like Phil Knight) or participated on-court for things like the Harlem Globetrotters. The few players that made it as contributors are guys that were "The first African American to make an all-star game" or "The first African American to sign an NBA Contract". There's like 3 of those and Rebecca Lobo, because of her broadcasting and playing career. If you ever played substantial minutes professionally you're going in as a player rather than contributor.

Vlade's Hall of Fame bio on the website reads like "He was really great, for a Euro"

Quote:

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The arrival of Vlade Divac in the NBA in 1989 signified a watershed moment for the game of basketball. Divac, barely out of his teens and barely speaking a lick of English, landed in southern California, the 26th draft pick of the Los Angeles Lakers and the new face of international basketball. Just the summer before, Divac had helped Yugoslavia to a silver medal at the 1988 Olympics. Now the big center with the soft hands, perfect timing, and warm heart would blaze a basketball trail for Europeans and eventually other players from across the globe. Divac won gold at the 1990 and 2002 World Championships to accompany gold at the 1989 and 1991 European championships. His game was beautiful the effortless passes, the flawless footwork, the up-and-under for an easy layup, and the clever practice of defending an opponent with the so-called flop. Divac recorded more than 13,000 points, 9,000 rebounds, 3,000 assists, 1,600 blocked shots, and 1,200 steals making him one of the greatest all-around players to come from Europe to the NBA.

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Bolded are the parts that are qualified by the fact that he was a great European player and not a great player overall, or parts that talk about things off the court.

But, you're trolling.

I'm not trolling at all. You bolded where it said he was one of the best European players.

He has an incredible international resume, including two silver medals and a bronze medal in the Olympics (yes, once placing above Team USA.)

You can't look at his international resume and say he doesn't deserve in. If he never played in the NBA, he would be in the HOF.

You picked a terrible argument and stuck to it. Bottom line is Vlade's international resume absolutely gets him in and absolutely helps him with his HOF resume. There is no legitimate argument from anyone about that. Except you for some reason.

Maybe if they put in the 2003 draft class...

If anyone appears to be trolling it seems to be hph

Guitarsoup said:

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I'm not trolling at all. You bolded where it said he was one of the best European players.

He has an incredible international resume, including two silver medals and a bronze medal in the Olympics (yes, once placing above Team USA.)

You can't look at his international resume and say he doesn't deserve in. If he never played in the NBA, he would be in the HOF.

You picked a terrible argument and stuck to it. Bottom line is Vlade's international resume absolutely gets him in and absolutely helps him with his HOF resume. There is no legitimate argument from anyone about that. Except you for some reason.

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Point me to where I said he didn't deserve to be in? I didn't. But if you're comparing Vlade to Bosh, Bosh comes out way ahead, because his accomplishments occurred in the premiere league in the world and Vlade made his name as a great Euro player. I didn't say his international career doesn't help him get in. I said he absolutely is in, because he's European and part of that is playing in European/International tournaments. The point is that Bosh absolutely will be in, absolutely deserves to be in and it's because the Basketball Hall of Fame isn't like other Hall of Fames. If it were, neither Vlade nor Bosh would be in.

Judge me if you want, but winning medals when your competition is limited to guys that aren't the premiere players in the NBA or limited to guys that were born in Europe really doesn't impress me as much as being an 11 time all star in the premiere league in the world. It "impresses" the Hall more than me, because they want countries to have basketball heroes so the game expands. That's why it's harder for a US player to get in than a Serbian.

Vlade also only has two Olympic medals, both silver and one was won before the Dream Team. The roster for the United States he beat out in the Olympics is mostly a Who's Who of "Who?"'s.

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Vlade also only has two Olympic medals, both silver and one was won before the Dream Team. The roster for the United States he beat out in the Olympics is mostly a Who's Who of "Who?"'s.

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GTFO. Maybe you are too young to remember that team, but it had plenty of talent and should have won. Hall of Famer Mitch Richmond and College HOF Danny Manning choked against Russia.

It's the worst roster the US has sent to the Olympics in 44 years, at least. Anyway, I don't really care anymore. I'm not trying to say Vlade was a bad player, he wasn't, but you've said there's no shot Bosh should be in and that Vlade definitely should and that's just crazy talk.

You're talking about a 19/8 player with 11 All-Star appearances versus a 11/8 player with 1 all-star. If you succeed overseas, but fail in the league it doesn't matter as much as not participating overseas and succeeding in the league. That's handicapping.

Both will be in, but the real question is why Chris Webber and Tim Hardaway aren't in yet.

Bosh was a better player in the NBA than Vlade.

Vlade has more accomplishments. Bosh's biggest accomplishments were being the #3 guy on a team that won two titles.

Vlade added more to the sport of basketball than Bosh. Without Vlade, we wouldn't have James Harden going down the court, trying to get opponents' hands near his arms to fake like he is taking a shot and getting fouled, then flailing all over the court.

But cool that Bosh led the Raptors to a team record over .500 once or twice.

I hate how that article is written. Kobe, Duncan, and Garrett have so much more accomplishments. When you lump the stats together, it hides Bosh.

It would be like saying that Drew Brees, Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, and I have combined for 223,000 passing yards and 1627 touchdown passes. I of course have zero.

Except Bosh made 11 consecutive All-Star appearances and won two championships and the closest you got to throwing a pass in the NFL is watching someone else do it on TV.

Guitarsoup said:

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I'm not trolling at all. You bolded where it said he was one of the best European players.

He has an incredible international resume, including two silver medals and a bronze medal in the Olympics (yes, once placing above Team USA.)

You can't look at his international resume and say he doesn't deserve in. If he never played in the NBA, he would be in the HOF.

You picked a terrible argument and stuck to it. Bottom line is Vlade's international resume absolutely gets him in and absolutely helps him with his HOF resume. There is no legitimate argument from anyone about that. Except you for some reason.

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Good Call, and great arguments from you on this thread.

Chris Bosh just got announced to the 2021 Hall of Fame Class.

Kellso said:

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yes

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https://www.si.com/nba/raptors/news/toronto-raptors-chris-bosh-inducted-into-hall-of-fame

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Bosh joins Tracy McGrady and Hakeem Olajuwon as former Raptors players inducted into the Hall of Fame.

"Chris was the face of our franchise and for basketball in Canada for many wonderful years," Raptors president Masai Ujiri wrote in a press release. "The Toronto community watched him grow from an eager young rookie into a perennial all-star, a father and an NBA champion.

He will always have a special place in our franchise history and we are thrilled to celebrate this achievement with Chris, his wife Adrienne and their family."
Bosh played in 509 regular-season games for the Raptors, averaging 20.2 points, 9.4 rebounds, 1.2 blocks, and a .492 field goal shooting percentage. He remains the franchise all-time leader in total rebounds (4,776), offensive rebounds (1,369), defensive rebounds (3,407), blocks (600), and double-doubles.

His Raptors career was highlighted by five straight NBA All-Star game appearances between 2006 and 2010. In 2006-07 he became the second player in franchise history to earn All-NBA Second Team honours and was named the Eastern Conference Player of the month in January 2017.

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This is more about the standards of the basketball HOF than anything. Clearly, according to those standards, Chris Bosh gets in. But I think those standards are wrong.

IMO, a hall of fame should either mean that you changed the game or that you were a top tier player for years. Chris Bosh was never more than second tier, and when you ask what his contributions to the game were the answer is "nothing". Really good player for quite a while. Seems like a cool guy, and as far as I know a good human being. Not basketball HOF.

Oddly enough, Vlade might have a better case. He was significant in terms of bringing the flop (which I hate, but undeniably changed the game), the passing big man, and the European post to the NBA. He retired 16 years ago, but he's still a reference people get, and he'll still be a reference 20 years from now. I'm not sure Chris Bosh will.

Bosh in his first year of eligibility, Vlade took 9 years. Does Vlade belong in the Hall of Fame? Sure, because the basketball Hall of Fame is the weakest of the 4 major sports in the US. By a lot. A lot. It's the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame of sports. If it were on the level of the other major Hall of Fames then neither would be in.

Vlade is just not a better basketball player than Bosh.

Ulrich said:

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This is more about the standards of the basketball HOF than anything. Clearly, according to those standards, Chris Bosh gets in. But I think those standards are wrong.

IMO, a hall of fame should either mean that you changed the game or that you were a top tier player for years. Chris Bosh was never more than second tier, and when you ask what his contributions to the game were the answer is "nothing". Really good player for quite a while. Seems like a cool guy, and as far as I know a good human being. Not basketball HOF.

Oddly enough, Vlade might have a better case. He was significant in terms of bringing the flop (which I hate, but undeniably changed the game), the passing big man, and the European post to the NBA. He retired 16 years ago, but he's still a reference people get, and he'll still be a reference 20 years from now. I'm not sure Chris Bosh will.

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This entire post is bullchit and sour grapes.

Looking back through this thread the majority of posters were adamant that Bosh would not be a Hall of Famer when his resume was clearly HOF worthy.

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Chris Bosh was never more than second tier,

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Bosh was an 11x All Star, and 2x NBA Champion.

There are approximately 4,500 men that can state that they made it to the NBA.

Out of that 4,500 there are only 40 players in the entire history of the NBA that have ever been 10x All stars.
Chris Bosh in the top 1% (0.88%) of all people that ever played in the NBA in terms of All Star selections.
By definition that means you were one of the best of all time.

The problem with your post (and Guitarsoup) is that you all are using the NFL and MLB standards to try and judge Bosh's Hall of Fame candidacy, and that is not necessarily the correct method to determine who belongs.

Those HOF are each kind of crummy because of the amount of shady politics that happen between the beta male journalist who vote on the players, and the athlete's they tend to envy.

Drew Pearson should not have to wait 30 years to get the recognition of being a Hall of Famer. He was a HOF worthy in the 1980s when he was named to the 1970's All Decade team.

Barry Bonds and Roger Clemens are two of the very best baseball players that I have ever seen, and they are not in their respective Hall of Fames strictly because of politics.

Barry Bonds being in the HOF or not will not change my mind that he's the greatest baseball player that I've ever seen.

You all can call the basketball HOF watered down, but I like it because its the HOF with the least amount of BS and politics.

Kellso said:

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The problem with your post (and Guitarsoup) is that you all are using the NFL and MLB standards to try and judge Bosh's Hall of Fame candidacy, and that is not necessarily the correct method to determine who belongs.

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I think if you had read my post you might have come up with a better rebuttal to it. I don't follow the NFL or MLB so I can't comment on their HOF selection procedures, my post was about the basketball hall of fame.

The basketball hall of fame has a really low bar, that's all. As I said, my post wasn't really about whether Bosh makes it over the bar (he does) but whether the bar is in the right place (it's not).