M.C. Swag said:

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Guitarsoup said:

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You can go over the cap to sign Capela. So make trades for LeBron (if you could work out a Anderson/Gordon for LeBron deal) and then S&T Capela using bird rights for Jordan with matching salaries.

Only way you could make that happen, but that is going to be difficult.

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What do you do with CP3? Even if Hou manages to unload Anderson and Gordon, bringing on Lebron and re-signing CP3 puts Hou at $105m+ just for those 3 guys. At that point Hou is staring down the barrel of a $100m lux tax bill just to fill out the rest of the roster. (not to mention all kinds of hard cap rules that would preclude Hou from signing almost anyone of substance unless they get multiple players to agree to less than their market value)

I really think the best course is to run it back. The effort it would take and the money it would cost to overhaul the roster for just Lebron (let alone Deandre) is too much. Too many variables. Not enough flexibility.

The roster as it stands is enough. We saw that. Hou had the lead late in game 6 and game 7 with their 2nd best player hurt.

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It's not your money. Spend all of Tillman's money.

From a cap standpoint, it's possible.

Guitarsoup said:

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M.C. Swag said:

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Guitarsoup said:

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You can go over the cap to sign Capela. So make trades for LeBron (if you could work out a Anderson/Gordon for LeBron deal) and then S&T Capela using bird rights for Jordan with matching salaries.

Only way you could make that happen, but that is going to be difficult.

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What do you do with CP3? Even if Hou manages to unload Anderson and Gordon, bringing on Lebron and re-signing CP3 puts Hou at $105m+ just for those 3 guys. At that point Hou is staring down the barrel of a $100m lux tax bill just to fill out the rest of the roster. (not to mention all kinds of hard cap rules that would preclude Hou from signing almost anyone of substance unless they get multiple players to agree to less than their market value)

I really think the best course is to run it back. The effort it would take and the money it would cost to overhaul the roster for just Lebron (let alone Deandre) is too much. Too many variables. Not enough flexibility.

The roster as it stands is enough. We saw that. Hou had the lead late in game 6 and game 7 with their 2nd best player hurt.

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It's not your money. Spend all of Tillman's money.

From a cap standpoint, it's possible.

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You miss the part about hard cap rules precluding Hou from signing any outside players to anything other than the league minimum? The lux tax is just ANOTHER consideration. Not THE consideration.

So you trade for Jordan and Bron instead of using the MLE? Ok, tough decision there.

Guitarsoup said:

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So you trade for Jordan and Bron instead of using the MLE? Ok, tough decision there.

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I don't think you're understanding the situation.

Please show me the math to bring in both those players and the rockets roster afterwards.

Then please explain why cleveland would be willing to give up lebron AND pay more in roster salaries to do it.

From Hou and Clevs perspective ....trading Lebron doesn't add up. Financially (for both teams), competitively (for both teams), or even logistically (particularly for Clev...who'd have to eat Anderson's deal for what...? With Hill and Clarkson, why would they want Gordon? etc).

Quote:

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particularly for Clev...who'd have to eat Anderson's deal for what...? With Hill and Clarkson, why would they want Gordon? etc).

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I mentioned it earlier on here, but CLE may be inclined to take on Anderson's contract if indeed they decide to go into full on tank mode. His $20MM over the next 2 years would help them reach the salary min while tanking, and it'll go off the books when they're ready to add.

I actually think it's a perfect contract for any tanking team to take on who needs salary while dumping players but only for a couple years so as to not hamstring them.

Ag_07 said:

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Quote:

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particularly for Clev...who'd have to eat Anderson's deal for what...? With Hill and Clarkson, why would they want Gordon? etc).

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I mentioned it earlier on here, but CLE may be inclined to take on Anderson's contract if indeed they decide to go into full on tank mode. His $20MM over the next 2 years would help them reach the salary min while tanking, and it'll go off the books when they're ready to add.

I actually think it's a perfect contract for any tanking team to take on who needs salary while dumping players but only for a couple years so as to not hamstring them.

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With most teams, you're right about that. But not with Clev. They aren't looking to add a salary...they need to dump em (assuming Lebron leaves). Clev is still over the cap even if Lebron walks. They're paying nearly $60m in Lux tax this summer. Taking on Anderson & Gordon further exacerbates the issue and due to repeater tax rules, clev's lux tax bill for next season would be infinitely worse. You honestly think they'd pay $200m for a tank team? I don't.

M.C. Swag said:

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Guitarsoup said:

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You can go over the cap to sign Capela. So make trades for LeBron (if you could work out a Anderson/Gordon for LeBron deal) and then S&T Capela using bird rights for Jordan with matching salaries.

Only way you could make that happen, but that is going to be difficult.

---

What do you do with CP3? Even if Hou manages to unload Anderson and Gordon, bringing on Lebron and re-signing CP3 puts Hou at $105m+ just for those 3 guys. At that point Hou is staring down the barrel of a $100m lux tax bill just to fill out the rest of the roster. (not to mention all kinds of hard cap rules that would preclude Hou from signing almost anyone of substance unless they get multiple players to agree to less than their market value)

I really think the best course is to run it back. The effort it would take and the money it would cost to overhaul the roster for just Lebron (let alone Deandre) is too much. Too many variables. Not enough flexibility.

The roster as it stands is enough. We saw that. Hou had the lead late in game 6 and game 7 with their 2nd best player hurt.

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I think we are in need of at least one more backcourt player capable of ball-handling if CP3 goes down again

M.C. Swag said:

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Ag_07 said:

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Quote:

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particularly for Clev...who'd have to eat Anderson's deal for what...? With Hill and Clarkson, why would they want Gordon? etc).

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I mentioned it earlier on here, but CLE may be inclined to take on Anderson's contract if indeed they decide to go into full on tank mode. His $20MM over the next 2 years would help them reach the salary min while tanking, and it'll go off the books when they're ready to add.

I actually think it's a perfect contract for any tanking team to take on who needs salary while dumping players but only for a couple years so as to not hamstring them.

---

With most teams, you're right about that. But not with Clev. They aren't looking to add a salary...they need to dump em (assuming Lebron leaves). Clev is still over the cap even if Lebron walks. They're paying nearly $60m in Lux tax this summer. Taking on Anderson & Gordon further exacerbates the issue and due to repeater tax rules, clev's lux tax bill for next season would be infinitely worse. You honestly think they'd pay $200m for a tank team? I don't.

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I was thinking about trading Anderson to a team like the Bulls, Hawks, Kings, or Nets. If we throw in 2 first rounders and a second rounder, they'll swallow his contract. And Gordon is a positive asset on a good contract so we could trade him to any team wanting a good shooting guard.

TrillOBrien said:

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M.C. Swag said:

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Guitarsoup said:

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You can go over the cap to sign Capela. So make trades for LeBron (if you could work out a Anderson/Gordon for LeBron deal) and then S&T Capela using bird rights for Jordan with matching salaries.

Only way you could make that happen, but that is going to be difficult.

---

What do you do with CP3? Even if Hou manages to unload Anderson and Gordon, bringing on Lebron and re-signing CP3 puts Hou at $105m+ just for those 3 guys. At that point Hou is staring down the barrel of a $100m lux tax bill just to fill out the rest of the roster. (not to mention all kinds of hard cap rules that would preclude Hou from signing almost anyone of substance unless they get multiple players to agree to less than their market value)

I really think the best course is to run it back. The effort it would take and the money it would cost to overhaul the roster for just Lebron (let alone Deandre) is too much. Too many variables. Not enough flexibility.

The roster as it stands is enough. We saw that. Hou had the lead late in game 6 and game 7 with their 2nd best player hurt.

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I think we are in need of at least one more backcourt player capable of ball-handling if CP3 goes down again

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If we can't get a star, I'd really like to get Tyreke Evans as the backup point guard.

At the end of the day, we have Daryl Morey, and he has done the impossible before. It will be a very interesting offseason

Yes, there exists a path to trade for Lebron, but we're talking about likelihoods. A 3rd team is almost a necessity for this to make sense from Cleveland's perspective, but that just further complicates things. The more teams involved the more variables that could lead to a collapse of the deal.

I agree the team needs another backcourt guy and I think Hou can attract some good vets with that MLE (haven't poured over FA list yet to see who's out there).

M.C. Swag said:

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Ag_07 said:

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Quote:

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particularly for Clev...who'd have to eat Anderson's deal for what...? With Hill and Clarkson, why would they want Gordon? etc).

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I mentioned it earlier on here, but CLE may be inclined to take on Anderson's contract if indeed they decide to go into full on tank mode. His $20MM over the next 2 years would help them reach the salary min while tanking, and it'll go off the books when they're ready to add.

I actually think it's a perfect contract for any tanking team to take on who needs salary while dumping players but only for a couple years so as to not hamstring them.

---

With most teams, you're right about that. But not with Clev. They aren't looking to add a salary...they need to dump em (assuming Lebron leaves). Clev is still over the cap even if Lebron walks. They're paying nearly $60m in Lux tax this summer. Taking on Anderson & Gordon further exacerbates the issue and due to repeater tax rules, clev's lux tax bill for next season would be infinitely worse. You honestly think they'd pay $200m for a tank team? I don't.

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I don't know CLE particular situation. I was just speaking in general terms that if they wanted to tank they could use Anderson's contract.

I'm not sure that there is any trade or salary cap magic that will result in LeBron showing up in Houston. The only way that happens is if he specifically wants to come here to win a championship with his friends. In that case, both him and Cp3 will have to choose to take less money. If they don't make that sacrifice this fantasy is not really obtainable...

AG@RICE said:

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I'm not sure that there is any trade or salary cap magic that will result in LeBron showing up in Houston. The only way that happens is if he specifically wants to come here to win a championship with his friends. In that case, both him and Cp3 will have to choose to take less money. If they don't make that sacrifice this fantasy is not really obtainable...

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Definitely possible if he opts in like CP3, it doesn't seem likely though

M.C. Swag said:

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Guitarsoup said:

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So you trade for Jordan and Bron instead of using the MLE? Ok, tough decision there.

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I don't think you're understanding the situation.

Please show me the math to bring in both those players and the rockets roster afterwards.

Then please explain why cleveland would be willing to give up lebron AND pay more in roster salaries to do it.

From Hou and Clevs perspective ....trading Lebron doesn't add up. Financially (for both teams), competitively (for both teams), or even logistically (particularly for Clev...who'd have to eat Anderson's deal for what...? With Hill and Clarkson, why would they want Gordon? etc).

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Did you miss the part where I said it would be difficult... i.e. unlikely?

Financially, it can work. But yes, Cleveland is unlikely to do it.

LeBron opts in. 35mm and change. (all using next season's numbers.)

Houston trades
Anderson
Gordon
Nene
Onuaku
Qi
Money/Picks

Cleveland Trades
LeBron
JR Smith (yes, I realize that LeBron probably doesn't want that numbnuts around, but Cleveland wants to dump the salary.

Cleveland has 40.54mm incoming
Houston has 50.32mm incoming
The max Houston can take back is 125% plus $100,000. 40.54*1.25 = 50.675, so financially it works.
Say Ryan Anderson will agree to a buyout of $35mm from the $41mm he is guaranteed so he can go play somewhere that isn't tanking. Cleveland can stretch that 35mm out over 5 years, or 7/year for cap and luxury tax purposes. Then waive Qi's non-G contract.

So Cleveland's cap went from 138mm to 103mm. They went from 15mm over the tax while paying the repeater to 2mm over the soft cap with 20mm before they hit the lux tax. Ideal for the Cavs? Nope. But better than paying the tax with Bron and they got rid of JR Smith, too.

Now the Rockets S&T DeAndre straight up for Capela. Crazy luxury tax time, but not my money.
Resign Chris Paul.
Resign Ariza
Resign Gerald Green

Hope for some vets that will take the min.
Zaza, Jeff Green, David West, Ilysanova, Mike Beasley, Lance Stephenson (because JR isn't enough crazy), Jamal Crawford, Seth Curry - I think a team that had a starting five of Dre, Bron, Harden, CP3, and tucker could attract some decent vets to fill out the roster.


C: Deandre Jordan
PF: LeBron James
SF: PJ Tucker/Ariza
SG: James Harden/JR Smith
PG: Chris Paul

So likely? Probably not. Like I said several posts ago, it would be really difficult. But it is possible as far as the math goes.

That's one helluva effort. I'll give ya that. Couple things;

1) even if the money works, Clev can't physically sign that many players. They would need to shed contracts (cut or trade essententially for nothing). Makes 0 sense for them to help houston with this and continue to pay more money than 29 other teams to tank.

2) my other point (other than financial) was competitive. Look at that roster for Houston. It's a decent starting squad but woefully thin AND it'd the single largest team salary in the history of the nba. You can't have Jordan and Lebron be you're only options. AND the price that would cost...it's unfathomable. It could ruin the franchise for years.

If you're point was merely to talk about what's possible, sorry. I didn't pick up on that. I don't see the value in arguing over what's possible. Lebron could possibly sign to the warriors for the vet min. I could possibly marry Olivia Wilde.

If you're actually saying 1) it's likely Lebron comes to Hou or 2) the team is better if he did...I'd argue against both.

1. Wrong.gif
Calderon, Hood, Green are all free agents. So you make the trade in July 1 and the three extra players take the spot of the three outgoing players. Ryno and Qi are cut and they go about their business. I'm sure Cleveland could get better offers, but Bron has a no trade. They get some picks, a good trade chip in Gordon and clear space. Again, not the greatest return, but Cleveland is hamstrung by Bron right now. Is it better to just let him walk and get nothing? Maybe.

2. I disagree completely. I think a team that starts with Bron, harden, cp3, and Dre, plus Tucker, Ariza and a bunch of coat tail riders is the best team in the NBA.

TrillOBrien said:

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does anyone else have zero motivation to watch game 4 tonight? I really hope the ratings for this year's Finals are an all-time low to prove a point to the NBA

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Didn't watch a single minute of the finals.

Who would you rather have on defense when facing the Warriors? Capela or Jordan.

Capela has the legs to keep up with the Rockets on offense.

My concern with Capela is rebounding. During the WCF, Draymond Green had dominant stretches.

Definitely would rather have Capela

Interesting breakdown. I think we probably keep Capela over DeAndre Jordan. I'm also not sure that we'd take JR Smith, but it does make sense that we take a bad contract back from them if they're taking Anderson. Maybe we buy up some non-guaranteed contracts to make the money work for either George Hill or Tristan Thompson.

But in all likelihood, any move to bring Lebron to Houston will likely involve side deals with other teams, so who knows where all these guys would end up. I would guess that Cleveland would try to flip Gordon since he'd be their best trade piece aside from Love.

Doesn't Houston also have the full MLE this summer? Would these trades affect that? If we're assuming Lebron opts in, then technically it's not a sign-and-trade. Tillman would be shelling out tons of money, but not my problem .

lil99chris said:

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Who would you rather have on defense when facing the Warriors? Capela or Jordan.

Capela has the legs to keep up with the Rockets on offense.

My concern with Capela is rebounding. During the WCF, Draymond Green had dominant stretches.

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CyberX from clutchfans said that deandre is willing to take a significant paycut back in December.

I tried to include Tristan Thompson because he has 2y/36m left instead of JR Smith 1y14.7 and 2nd year partially guaranteed at 3.8mm, but there was no way to make that extra 3mm work. Remember in my scenario, the Cavs are taking back about 10mm less money than they are sending out, which almost gets them under the luxury tax by itself. The only wan to include Thompson is to also include PJ Tucker, which I was trying not to do since he is so versatile.

As far as the MLE, different rules come into play when using it.

The Rockets used the MLE on PJ Tucker, so they are hard capped for the 17-18 season at the Luxury tax. They cannot exceed the luxury tax since they used it and they are a little less than $1mm from that point.

Since the Rockets will hit the luxury tax next season, they cannot use the MLE. There is a separate, smaller MLE that can be used by teams above the tax.

Presumably we could make Thompson work if we traded for other teams' non-guaranteed contracts, like we did in the CP3 trade. Then Cleveland cuts those guys after the trade is completed, saving even more money.

Ryan34 said:

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Presumably we could make Thompson work if we traded for other teams' non-guaranteed contracts, like we did in the CP3 trade. Then Cleveland cuts those guys after the trade is completed, saving even more money.

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https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2018/03/how-non-guaranteed-salaries-will-affect-trades-in-new-cba.html

Guitarsoup said:

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Ryan34 said:

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Presumably we could make Thompson work if we traded for other teams' non-guaranteed contracts, like we did in the CP3 trade. Then Cleveland cuts those guys after the trade is completed, saving even more money.

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https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2018/03/how-non-guaranteed-salaries-will-affect-trades-in-new-cba.html

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I see. Didn't realize they closed that loophole. Thanks.

agdaddy04 said:

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AG@RICE said:

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I'm confused as to why most of you would want Capela over Jordan.

Forget their ages, I think Clint is a better player right now. If we get Jordan for a cut rate, I could see the logic; however, I think Clint is currently a better finisher and rim protector.

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You seem to be contradicting yourself

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Crap. You are correct. I transposed the names in my first sentence. I meant to say, I prefer Capela over Jordan.

Capela may not be as strong as Deandre, but he is the ideal center for our "switch everything" defense.
He struggled against GS, but he was absolutely dominant against Utah.

Also, in our meetings with the Clippers this last year, I remember Clint clearly out playing Deandre.

Money is the only reason I'd consider Deandre over Clint.

AG@RICE said:

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agdaddy04 said:

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AG@RICE said:

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I'm confused as to why most of you would want Capela over Jordan.

Forget their ages, I think Clint is a better player right now. If we get Jordan for a cut rate, I could see the logic; however, I think Clint is currently a better finisher and rim protector.

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You seem to be contradicting yourself

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Crap. You are correct. I transposed the names in my first sentence. I meant to say, I prefer Capela over Jordan.

Capela may not be as strong as Deandre, but he is the ideal center for our "switch everything" defense.
He struggled against GS, but he was absolutely dominant against Utah.

Also, in our meetings with the Clippers this last year, I remember Clint clearly out playing Deandre.

Money is the only reason I'd consider Deandre over Clint.

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I would just get a mediocre center. A true center seems to not be very valuable against the Warriors.

Texan_Aggie said:

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AG@RICE said:

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agdaddy04 said:

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AG@RICE said:

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I'm confused as to why most of you would want Capela over Jordan.

Forget their ages, I think Clint is a better player right now. If we get Jordan for a cut rate, I could see the logic; however, I think Clint is currently a better finisher and rim protector.

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You seem to be contradicting yourself

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Crap. You are correct. I transposed the names in my first sentence. I meant to say, I prefer Capela over Jordan.

Capela may not be as strong as Deandre, but he is the ideal center for our "switch everything" defense.
He struggled against GS, but he was absolutely dominant against Utah.

Also, in our meetings with the Clippers this last year, I remember Clint clearly out playing Deandre.

Money is the only reason I'd consider Deandre over Clint.

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I would just get a mediocre center. A true center seems to not be very valuable against the Warriors.

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I kinda agree with this. Capela has been amazing for us and his growth has been really fun to watch. However, I'm not sure he's worth what we would be paying him for our offense and to beat the Warriors. Most other teams? Sure. But ultimately when it comes to beating the warriors, he was on the bench for significant minutes. I think we will resign Capela, but I won't be devastated if it doesn't happen and we clear more money for a player that helps us more.

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