Where do you rank him all time?

2

#2 behind MJ

#2

He's got no shot of passing Jordan, and the majority of that has nothing to do with basketball.

Obi Wan Ginobili said:

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#2

He's got no shot of passing Jordan, and the majority of that has nothing to do with basketball.

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Let's say he leads the Cavs to the championship this year, and then plays another 3-5 years at peak LeBron level, winning another MVP and another 1-2 titles along the way.

Its a long shot, but he has the hunger to try.

2 with a 50/50 shot at passing Jordan.

Malcolm52 said:

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Obi Wan Ginobili said:

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#2

He's got no shot of passing Jordan, and the majority of that has nothing to do with basketball.

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Let's say he leads the Cavs to the championship this year, and then plays another 3-5 years at peak LeBron level, winning another MVP and another 1-2 titles along the way.

Its a long shot, but he has the hunger to try.

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He could win more titles and more MVP's than Jordan, break all his records, be better statistically, and he's still going to be chasing Jordan because people don't like LeBron.

The two biggest reasons are "The Decision" and the "Superteam" argument.

"The Decision" was goofy and a little pig headed, but people threw way too big of a hissy fit because of it. At least the money raised went to a children's charity, right? Some will also point to Jordan not switching teams during his prime. I have no clue what that has to do with anything, but it still gets brought up.

The "Superteam" logic is flawed to, but it's going to be the biggest barrier for him to "overcoming" Jordan, whatever that even means. Basketball was a different game during the Jordan years. Some would say that because Jordan played (and dominated) in a more physically demanding era, that LeBron can never be compared. I think that's a lazy way to think about it. LeBron is the physical specimen you would clone if the technology existed. Despite that, he plays in an era where you get called for fouls if the air conditioning kicks on. Yes, that means he has gotten more calls than Jordan probably did, but he also has to DEFEND in this environment. Can you imagine if LeBron was able to use his 6'8", 260 pound frame and actually be physical?

TRL-Ag said:

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Obi Wan Ginobili said:

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#2

He's got no shot of passing Jordan, and the majority of that has nothing to do with basketball.

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So you're saying he's a better basketball player but won't pass Jordan because he's a cult hero?

I think when it's all said and done you could make a case for LeBron being #1, and he's a better human being than Jordan.

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Generally agree with both of these sentiments.

I don't know if people over the age of 35 are going to allow anyone to pass MJ in their minds.

The Warriors present an interesting test for LeBron that wasn't there for MJ.

Beating a super team will get him major props.
Losing to a super team will be the thing media/MJ fans need to hold down LeBron's status.

TRL-Ag said:

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Obi Wan Ginobili said:

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#2

He's got no shot of passing Jordan, and the majority of that has nothing to do with basketball.

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So you're saying he's a better basketball player but won't pass Jordan because he's a cult hero?

I think when it's all said and done you could make a case for LeBron being #1, and he's a better human being than Jordan.

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That's pretty much what I am saying.

LeBron is chasing a ghost, the same way that so many baseball players are chasing Babe Ruth. No stats will ever be enough. Jordan is such a legend that people completely ignore the fact that he was a POS human being, and a POS teammate his entire career. It's hard to talk **** about the guy when most of the players are wearing his damn shoes.

For whatever it is worth, the fact that LeBron is ALREADY in the conversation as the second best of all time, when he is only 32, is insane, especially when you consider the amount of hype tossed on him in high school.

Obi Wan Ginobili said:

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Malcolm52 said:

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Obi Wan Ginobili said:

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#2

He's got no shot of passing Jordan, and the majority of that has nothing to do with basketball.

---

Let's say he leads the Cavs to the championship this year, and then plays another 3-5 years at peak LeBron level, winning another MVP and another 1-2 titles along the way.

Its a long shot, but he has the hunger to try.

---

He could win more titles and more MVP's than Jordan, break all his records, be better statistically, and he's still going to be chasing Jordan because people don't like LeBron.

The two biggest reasons are "The Decision" and the "Superteam" argument.

"The Decision" was goofy and a little pig headed, but people threw way too big of a hissy fit because of it. At least the money raised went to a children's charity, right? Some will also point to Jordan not switching teams during his prime. I have no clue what that has to do with anything, but it still gets brought up.

The "Superteam" logic is flawed to, but it's going to be the biggest barrier for him to "overcoming" Jordan, whatever that even means. Basketball was a different game during the Jordan years. Some would say that because Jordan played (and dominated) in a more physically demanding era, that LeBron can never be compared. I think that's a lazy way to think about it. LeBron is the physical specimen you would clone if the technology existed. Despite that, he plays in an era where you get called for fouls if the air conditioning kicks on. Yes, that means he has gotten more calls than Jordan probably did, but he also has to DEFEND in this environment. Can you imagine if LeBron was able to use his 6'8", 260 pound frame and actually be physical?

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I hear you 100% but a year ago nobody would even consider LeBron in the argument for GOAT. He then beats the greatest regular season time ever in epic fashion and then whispers start to pop up. If he beats this version on the Warriors then the argument will start to actually have some merit.

Jordan will probably always be considered the GOAT, for basketball and non basketball reasons I agree. but LeBron still has some bullets in his gun.

behind kawhi this year...

I love both, and I can say Lebron is the best right now.
I know the decision has been discussed, but this and his interview, not 4, not 5, not 6, not 7!!!

I divide up rankings to pre and post 3-point line. Only real all-time greats on both sides are Kareem and Dr. J and both of them had most of their prime before even though they had titles after.

Post 3-point line (79-80 season, beginning of Magic/Bird careers)

1. Jordan
2. Bron
3. Magic


I agree with the sentiment that LeBron is chasing a ghost.

But I also think that because LeBron is bigger and stronger than everyone, him taking the sissy way out and flopping so much grates on the older generation, especially how hard-nosed Jordan was. He will never get the respect that Jordan got from many because he doesn't always "play like a man".

Jordan played in much more hardass NBA where superstars didn't get every damn call and get away with everything. Big men dominated when he played and lebron wouldn't stand a chance driving against those guys back then. They would lay his ass out

Fun fact... After Jordan's first retirement Pippen lead Chicago to a 55-27 record and was in the MVP conversation. Same record as Harden/Houston this year.

Obi Wan Ginobili said:

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Malcolm52 said:

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Obi Wan Ginobili said:

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#2

He's got no shot of passing Jordan, and the majority of that has nothing to do with basketball.

---

Let's say he leads the Cavs to the championship this year, and then plays another 3-5 years at peak LeBron level, winning another MVP and another 1-2 titles along the way.

Its a long shot, but he has the hunger to try.

---

He could win more titles and more MVP's than Jordan, break all his records, be better statistically, and he's still going to be chasing Jordan because people don't like LeBron.

The two biggest reasons are "The Decision" and the "Superteam" argument.

"The Decision" was goofy and a little pig headed, but people threw way too big of a hissy fit because of it. At least the money raised went to a children's charity, right? Some will also point to Jordan not switching teams during his prime. I have no clue what that has to do with anything, but it still gets brought up.

The "Superteam" logic is flawed to, but it's going to be the biggest barrier for him to "overcoming" Jordan, whatever that even means. Basketball was a different game during the Jordan years. Some would say that because Jordan played (and dominated) in a more physically demanding era, that LeBron can never be compared. I think that's a lazy way to think about it. LeBron is the physical specimen you would clone if the technology existed. Despite that, he plays in an era where you get called for fouls if the air conditioning kicks on. Yes, that means he has gotten more calls than Jordan probably did, but he also has to DEFEND in this environment. Can you imagine if LeBron was able to use his 6'8", 260 pound frame and actually be physical?

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He would never do that though

PatAg said:

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Obi Wan Ginobili said:

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Malcolm52 said:

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Obi Wan Ginobili said:

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#2

He's got no shot of passing Jordan, and the majority of that has nothing to do with basketball.

---

Let's say he leads the Cavs to the championship this year, and then plays another 3-5 years at peak LeBron level, winning another MVP and another 1-2 titles along the way.

Its a long shot, but he has the hunger to try.

---

He could win more titles and more MVP's than Jordan, break all his records, be better statistically, and he's still going to be chasing Jordan because people don't like LeBron.

The two biggest reasons are "The Decision" and the "Superteam" argument.

"The Decision" was goofy and a little pig headed, but people threw way too big of a hissy fit because of it. At least the money raised went to a children's charity, right? Some will also point to Jordan not switching teams during his prime. I have no clue what that has to do with anything, but it still gets brought up.

The "Superteam" logic is flawed to, but it's going to be the biggest barrier for him to "overcoming" Jordan, whatever that even means. Basketball was a different game during the Jordan years. Some would say that because Jordan played (and dominated) in a more physically demanding era, that LeBron can never be compared. I think that's a lazy way to think about it. LeBron is the physical specimen you would clone if the technology existed. Despite that, he plays in an era where you get called for fouls if the air conditioning kicks on. Yes, that means he has gotten more calls than Jordan probably did, but he also has to DEFEND in this environment. Can you imagine if LeBron was able to use his 6'8", 260 pound frame and actually be physical?

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He would never do that though

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You can't know that any more than I can. LeBron has never played in an NBA where he's been allowed to physically overpower opponents, so there's no way to know what he would have done.

Yes, he flops, but that doesn't make him weak. He's gaming the system. It's a reality of today's NBA. It's a game of shooters and drawing cheap ass touch fouls. He can't play like Jordan used to play just to prove he can do it. It isn't the same game.

Oh hey look: 90's bball nuthuggers have come along to talk a bunch of crap about how the game today isn't as tough!

Lebron is as big and as strong as Karl Malone but way faster and his competitive advantage today would be as much of one in any era: it's that when he has a head of steam, nobody is stepping in front of him.

Jordan was great and as a huge fan of Hakeem's this hurts to say: but 90's basketball really wasn't very good. The league expanded by 25% during the decade... the league was diluted and not very skilled at the time: hence, why you have one team who managed to win 6 championships in 8 years. It's both a sign of how great Jordan is, but also how crappy basketball was in that era.

All that's to say, anyone who thinks Lebron wouldn't be as good in the 90's as he is now, is just delluding themselves.

DSAg44 said:

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behind kawhi this year...

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This is the dumbest argument I've seen in years

Lebron will finish #1

He'll have most of the better records. He has rings and can do more on tht floor than MJ.

6'8, too strong and too athletic to stop going to the basket. Can make 3s, can rebound and block. Can play point and is an assist machine given he's a true SF

People forget how ****ty the early Cavs teams were. Think 76ers team that went to finals with AI. Also his first year back in Cleveland Kyrie and Love were hurt in the finals and he should have been the mvp of the finals.

Brown's greatest assets is his durability. The guy is never hurt and is about to go over 50,000 career mins. Hes a better rebounder and passer than Jordan. He makes everyone around him better

Michael Jordan wouldn't miss a Finals game when he had the flu.

Lebron couldn't finish a Finals game without air conditioning.

blackgoldag11 said:

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Jordan played in much more hardass NBA where superstars didn't get every damn call and get away with everything. Big men dominated when he played and lebron wouldn't stand a chance driving against those guys back then. They would lay his ass out

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Nope. Jordan received excellent superstar treatment from the refs.

Frok said:

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blackgoldag11 said:

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Jordan played in much more hardass NBA where superstars didn't get every damn call and get away with everything. Big men dominated when he played and lebron wouldn't stand a chance driving against those guys back then. They would lay his ass out

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Nope. Jordan received excellent superstar treatment from the refs.

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No joke. Jordan was like the beginning of the Superstar treatment in the NBA. How old are you? It was a constant source of debate in the 80s and 90s.

Jordan and it isn't close right now. It wasn't long ago that this debate was whether Kobe was or would be considered better than Jordan. That wasn't close either.

If Lebron adds 3 more championships, a couple MVPs, and several more meaningful signature games, he still won't be the best.

TRL-Ag said:

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Obi Wan Ginobili said:

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#2

He's got no shot of passing Jordan, and the majority of that has nothing to do with basketball.

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So you're saying he's a better basketball player but won't pass Jordan because he's a cult hero?

I think when it's all said and done you could make a case for LeBron being #1, and he's a better human being than Jordan.

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He's a better human being? I love this. You guys have absolutely 0 knowledge of what these guys do off the court. I know of a girl here in Houston that has pics from a hotel room with her and LeBron from just a few years ago.

Nothing to add. I just want to bury that Lonzo Ball thread

Obi Wan Ginobili said:

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Malcolm52 said:

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Obi Wan Ginobili said:

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#2

He's got no shot of passing Jordan, and the majority of that has nothing to do with basketball.

---

Let's say he leads the Cavs to the championship this year, and then plays another 3-5 years at peak LeBron level, winning another MVP and another 1-2 titles along the way.

Its a long shot, but he has the hunger to try.

---

He could win more titles and more MVP's than Jordan, break all his records, be better statistically, and he's still going to be chasing Jordan because people don't like LeBron.

The two biggest reasons are "The Decision" and the "Superteam" argument.

"The Decision" was goofy and a little pig headed, but people threw way too big of a hissy fit because of it. At least the money raised went to a children's charity, right? Some will also point to Jordan not switching teams during his prime. I have no clue what that has to do with anything, but it still gets brought up.

The "Superteam" logic is flawed to, but it's going to be the biggest barrier for him to "overcoming" Jordan, whatever that even means. Basketball was a different game during the Jordan years. Some would say that because Jordan played (and dominated) in a more physically demanding era, that LeBron can never be compared. I think that's a lazy way to think about it. LeBron is the physical specimen you would clone if the technology existed. Despite that, he plays in an era where you get called for fouls if the air conditioning kicks on. Yes, that means he has gotten more calls than Jordan probably did, but he also has to DEFEND in this environment. Can you imagine if LeBron was able to use his 6'8", 260 pound frame and actually be physical?

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And the A/C better kick on or LeBron ain't playing.

MGS said:

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Michael Jordan wouldn't miss a Finals game when he had the flu.

Lebron couldn't finish a Finals game without air conditioning.

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Exactly. LeBron may be the better player - I'm not sure - but Jordan will be remembered for his toughness and drive to win.

I seem to recall a playoffs (Finals?) game in which Isiah Thomas dominated with two broken fingers, a high ankle sprain and the flu. I watched the replay of Leonard hurting his ankle three times yesterday and couldn't see it twist or roll. Doesn't matter cause they won anyway but can you imagine if they lost game 5 at home because Leonard's ankle didn't feel right?

I have Jordan #1 and LeBron #2 right now.

But...but...if LeBron were to beat the Warriors again this season, thus beating both a record 73 win Warriors team last year and then beating their 'superteam' this year...that on top of all the other things...then I will personally flip them to LeBron #1 and MJ #2. I grew up worshipping Jordan but beating those two ridiculously good Warriors teams in both 2016 and 2017 would be the shifting point for me to recognize LeBron as greatest ever.