He passed Bryant years ago among all but Laker homers. Jordan may be out of reach because of how he changed the game.

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Magic Johnson never won a championship without Kareem on the team.

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Every Celtics championship team in the 80s had 4-5 Hall of Fame players, plus great role players like Danny Ainge (all-star), Cedric Maxwell (all-defense and Finals MVP). It's not like Bird did it with no help.

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The only player to win a championship with basically zero help was Olajuwon, who won with a bunch of role players the first year.

Personally I think Hakeem had the most dominant 2 year run (including the championships) that we've seen. He's only NOT in that top 5 because he didn't stay at that level long enough.

Jordan gets credit for changing the game in addition to the rings. Lebron is going to have to win several more than Jordan to be considered greater. But IMO he has a shot.

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Personally I think Hakeem had the most dominant 2 year run (including the championships) that we've seen. He's only NOT in that top 5 because he didn't stay at that level long enough.

Jordan gets credit for changing the game in addition to the rings. Lebron is going to have to win several more than Jordan to be considered greater. But IMO he has a shot.

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Agreed. Hakeem's peak was the greatest the game has ever seen, especially when you consider who he faced as his opponents. I really can't think of an equivalent for another player who had to face multiple all-time greats at their position to win a title.

Dirk says hi ('11 vs Kobe, Durant, LeBron, Wade).

Hakeem really dominated Jordan the way Lebron just did Curry. Ohh wait.

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03 Spurs role players were worse than 94 or 95 Rockets.

Jordan lost Game 7 to the team Hakeem beat in the finals.

Conversation was on greatest of all time

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LeBron's greatness being determined by championships is completely valid. This is because his trips to the finals have been a breeze. Some of his career achievements are inflated from being in a weak Eastern Conference. I wish the Spurs could play the Pacers/Hawks/Raptors in the conference finals every year.

LeBron is great and should be among the all-time greats (I have him top 10 now). But to me, in his case, he has to win the championships to be considered a top 5 all-time player.

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Such a silly argument. Bird was drafted by one of the most successful NBA franchises of all-time, arguably the most successful. His '86 championship team had 4 Hall of Famers and 2 All-Stars. Their first round opponent was 22 games UNDER .500, their conference finals opponent's starting 5 was Craig Hodges, Randy Breuer, Paul Pressey, Terry Cummings, and Alton Lister, who had a COMBINED 1 All-Star game appearances at the time of their series. I bet you have Bird in your top 10 even though he basically played in the equivalent of today's D-League.

Magic Johnson's 1985 NBA title also began with a series win of a sub .500 team, this time the 36-46 Suns. Not much trouble for a team with Bob McAdoo, James Worthy, Jamaal Wilkes, Kareem Abdul-Jabaar, and Magic Johnson, all 5 of whom are in the Hall of Fame (2 of which are unanimously included among the 10 best players ever to play basketball). They also had Michael Cooper, an 8-time all defensive team player. Their conference final opponent did have a couple Hall of Famers, Alex English, and a 37 year old Dan Issel, but of course they were no match. Is Magic Johnson in your top 10?

The problem with criticizing LeBron for level of competition is that the NBA is more competitive now, by far, than at any other era in basketball history. The 80's championship teams may as well have been decided by coin flip, because the Lakers and Celtics had Hall of Famers at essentially every starting position, while the other teams may have had an All-Star or two. They only had to really show up for one series. I can buy the argument of LeBron's easy road if you were comparing him to another temporary player, say Dwyane Wade or Kevin Durant, but championships in general are a terrible way to compare players across generations.

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I still can't believe how bad Cleveland was without him. He leaves and they get the #1 pick 3 out of 4 years (one was through a trade I think, but still).

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People act as if his Miami team was stacked, but they've been pretty unsuccessful without him too. They've won 1 playoff series since he left, and have a record of 85-79, 7-7 in the playoffs. Chris Bosh has been injured, but their record is actually better without him. They've also added Joe Johnson, Luol Deng, Goran Dragic, and Hassan Whiteside.

FWIW, in the 37 seasons the Cavaliers have played without LeBron James they won 4 total playoff series'. The 2015-2016 Cavs just matched that.

Lol at Ulrich subtly throwing shade at the '11 Mavs! That "relatively weak" team SWEPT the back-to-back defending champs, at full strength, and Dirk had a postseason for the ages that year.

The Heat didn't exactly go through cupcakes to get to the finals, either; they had to beat both the Celtics and the Bulls (with Rose still MVP-caliber at the time) to get to the finals that year.

Some Spurs fans just can't give credit to other teams where it's due, I guess...

Jordan
LeBron
Magic
Duncan
Kobe

My top 5 since 1979.

I'm not a NBA aficionado. Has there been an example of a team/player that was as bad as Cleveland prior to Lebron who had the instant success after getting that one player?

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Lol at Ulrich subtly throwing shade at the '11 Mavs! That "relatively weak" team SWEPT the back-to-back defending champs, at full strength, and Dirk had a postseason for the ages that year.

The Heat didn't exactly go through cupcakes to get to the finals, either; they had to beat both the Celtics and the Bulls (with Rose still MVP-caliber at the time) to get to the finals that year.

Some Spurs fans just can't give credit to other teams where it's due, I guess...

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You need to get on the same page with the rest of the Mavs fans, their narrative has been that the Mavs were Nowitzki and spare parts.

That was the 'peak' of LeBron's career last night IMO. The most impressive of his three NBA championships by far. The first two he had to go to Miami and win with Wade and Bosh, the former of who already had carried a team to a ring.

But to come back to his home town after abandoning them previously for Miami and give them their first title in any major sport since 1964....by being the first team to ever come back from a 1-3 series hole to get revenge on a 73-9 regular season team who beat you last year in the Finals... how can you possibly ever top that sort of story?

Everything now from this point is just the wrap up pages on LeBron Jame's career IMO. He has cemented himself as a definite top-3 to top-4 player of all-time and last night seems like the moment that will always be regarded as the climax of his story. If you were making a movie about his life...you'd end it with last night.

Was this year how worst supporting cast? Check the blind resume below.

I would say they're all pretty close with B being the best in the playoffs. A is probably the weakest in the playoffs.

Season A (playoffs)
#2 21.2 - 5.0 - 5.1 (15.9 - 4.6 - 4.8)
#3 16.6 - 6.8 - 1.7 (12.1 - 7.3 - 1.5)
-1 other with double digit ppg (1 in playoffs)

Season B
#2 19.6 - 3.0 - 4.7 (25.2 - 3.0 - 4.7)
#3 16.0 - 9.9 - 2.4 (14.7 - 8.8 - 2.1)
- 2 others with double digit ppg (1 in playoffs)

Season C
#2 22.1 - 4.8 - 4.6 (22.8 - 5.2 - 4.3)
#3 18.0 - 7.9 - 1.8 (14.1 - 7.8 - 0.6)
- 0 others with double digit ppg (1 in playoffs)

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I'm not a NBA aficionado. Has there been an example of a team/player that was as bad as Cleveland prior to Lebron who had the instant success after getting that one player?

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Tim Duncan.

Prior to this year, only four players had ever led their team in 4 of 5 stat categories and led both teams in 3.

2013 LeBron James
2003 Tim Duncan
1987 Magic Johnson
1975 Kareem Abdul-Jabbar (in defeat to the Celtics)

LeBron led both teams in all 5 stat categories. Completely unprecedented.

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Prior to this year, only four players had ever led their team in 4 of 5 stat categories and led both teams in 3.

2013 LeBron James
2003 Tim Duncan
1987 Magic Johnson
1975 Kareem Abdul-Jabbar (in defeat to the Celtics)

LeBron led both teams in all 5 stat categories. Completely unprecedented.

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I was looking into similar stats the other day.

Dream lead the Rockets in 3/5 and was 2nd in the other 2.

LeBron is doing so ridiculous things that may never be done again.

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I'm not a NBA aficionado. Has there been an example of a team/player that was as bad as Cleveland prior to Lebron who had the instant success after getting that one player?

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Tim Duncan.

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Throwing a year to get a high pick doesn't count.

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Good thing they didn't throw a year. Unless you think they faked multiple surgeries and then still did not finish with the best chance of getting Duncan. (That would be Boston.) If you are tanking and don't get one of the two worst records, you are doing it wrong.

But that's ok, facts won't get in the way of your hate.

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I'm not a NBA aficionado. Has there been an example of a team/player that was as bad as Cleveland prior to Lebron who had the instant success after getting that one player?

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Tim Duncan.

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Throwing a year to get a high pick doesn't count.

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Good thing they didn't throw a year. Unless you think they faked multiple surgeries and then still did not finish with the best chance of getting Duncan. (That would be Boston.) If you are tanking and don't get one of the two worst records, you are doing it wrong.

But that's ok, facts won't get in the way of your hate.

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The Spurs regularly got into the playoffs prior Duncan. I was a Houston Rocket fan, and we beat you guys in the finals in 1995. Cleveland has been crap for a long time.

WCF not Finals, but yes, the Spurs were good from 90-96. But the Spurs also overhauled their role players between 97 and 99 when they won it all. Mario Elie, Jaren Jackson, Steve Kerr, Malik Rose, Antonio Daniels and Jerome Kersey were all new to the team and were pretty important to the title run.

David Robinson and Sean Elliot were both out with season ending surgeries in 96-97, so while the Spurs launched from 20 to 56 wins it was from getting everyone back, not just Timmy.

The Cavs went +18 when they drafted Lebron, -32 when he left, and +20 when he came back.

Don't forget a season ending back surgery for Chuck Person before the year started, and career ending injury for Charles Smith (traded JR Reid and a 1st for him a year before) just twenty games into the season. Those were probably faked, too.

We were left with Avery Johnson, Vernon Maxwell, Vinny Del Negro, 37yo Nique, Will Purdue, Cadillac Anderson, and Carl Herrera. None of those guys were under 30. All of them were pretty much trash.

1. Jordan
2. Bird
3. Lebron
4. Magic
5. Kobe

My top 5 in my lifetime. Lebron moved ahead of Magic last night, and not far behind Bird now (maybe tied).

What will it take for Lebron to move ahead of MJ? He has to at least match his rings (3 more to go), then the discussion can start.

Magic and LeBron are both better than Bird.

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WCF not Finals, but yes, the Spurs were good from 90-96. But the Spurs also overhauled their role players between 97 and 99 when they won it all. Mario Elie, Jaren Jackson, Steve Kerr, Malik Rose, Antonio Daniels and Jerome Kersey were all new to the team and were pretty important to the title run.

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I guess, my point is that I cannot think of a single player who made a big of an impact to a team than LeBron did for the Cavs. Tim Duncan doesn't fit the bill since the team was already pretty good for a good while prior. They just had a down year here and there.

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Magic and LeBron are both better than Bird.

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Agree to disagree then.

I think Duncan fits it to. Spurs made it to the WCF once in the 15 years before Duncan, then win five titles in six trips to the Finals and haven't had a win percentage below 60% in 18 years.