Timmy seems a little low... Seems fair though

Timmy's face.

I might shuffle the order a little bit on the back half, but overall it seems pretty reasonable at first glance.

Thats a totally reasonable list. Although it's pretty similar to his boyfriend Simmons' list

Wilt Chamberlain 7th?

Let me know when someone else averages 50 points a game for a season.

Dream >>>> Anyone else

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Wilt Chamberlain 7th?

Let me know when someone else averages 50 points a game for a season.

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Regular season super champion.All that domination, so few rings.

I was very young when Bird played so maybe I just don't know enough.... but doesn't Timmy's rings and longevity put him above Larry at this point? There is at least an argument there, right?

Hard to choose. Larry had three mvps and three titles, Duncan has two mvps and five titles. Bird was better offensively, Duncan better defensively.

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Wilt Chamberlain 7th?

Let me know when someone else averages 50 points a game for a season.

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Let me know when you start thinking for yourself and not taking every statistic at face value

Bird was better than Duncan. Come on.

Where is Julius Erving?

About 5-10 spots later.

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Where is Julius Erving?

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Hanging out with Karl Malone

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Bird was better than Duncan. Come on.

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Disagree.

To be fair, I was young when he played, but Bird > Duncan. More versatile and broader skill set, imo. Could shoot from anywhere, dribble, pass, defend. Duncan has him on longevity though.

Bird never made All-defense first team and was only second team 3x. He had some great defensive plays, but he was not a dominating defensive player like Duncan was.

Bird was a great scorer/shooter/passer for sure. But Duncan was certainly a very versatile player. Great mid-range game. Great post game. Great at passing out of double teams and finding the open player. Dominating defensive force both on ball and as a help defender for both post players and mid-range players.

It's definitely not a blowout in Bird's favor, and I don't blame any Spurs fans for having Duncan over Bird.

I think only Spurs fans have Duncan over Bird.

Kobe being that high is crazy IMO.

Duncan had less help than Bird with 5 titles vs Bird's 3. The NBA is much tougher now than the 80s when the NBA was basically just two great teams (one per conference) and a bunch of other teams.

In any event, I think Jordan, Russell and Kareem are pretty clear at the top. Duncan, Bird, Magic in some order are probably the next three and there are a lot of great arguments for all of them.

Magic = 5x Champ, 3x FinalsMVP, 3x MVP
Bird = 3x Champ, 2x Finals MVP, 3x MVP
Duncan 5x Champ, 3x FinalsMVP, 2x MVP

Duncan also has better longevity and defense than either of the others. Do you want 9 years of Bird or 18 years of Duncan?

FWIW: Duncan's career PER is better than Magic or Bird and his career Win Shares/48min is better than Bird's. His VORP is better than Bird or Magic.

Bird was a horrendous defense player. Anyone who says otherwise didn't watch him play

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Bird was a horrendous defense player. Anyone who says otherwise didn't watch him play

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Kind of ironic that his most shown highlight is a defensive play?

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Bird was a horrendous defense player. Anyone who says otherwise didn't watch him play

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Kind of ironic that his most shown highlight is a defensive play?

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That play was more about Basketball IQ than Defensive Ability, though.

Happened right after he got packed by Rodman.

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Bird was a horrendous defense player. Anyone who says otherwise didn't watch him play

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No. He was slow and unathletic on defense. He was a good defender. To say he was horrendous makes me question if you really saw him play. Or at the very least, it makes me question if you know what good defense looks like.

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Bird was a horrendous defense player. Anyone who says otherwise didn't watch him play

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Kind of ironic that his most shown highlight is a defensive play?

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That play was more about Basketball IQ than Defensive Ability, though.

Happened right after he got packed by Rodman.

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Jesus Christ, if you make a steal because of your IQ it's not good defense?

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Bird was a horrendous defense player. Anyone who says otherwise didn't watch him play

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Kind of ironic that his most shown highlight is a defensive play?

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That play was more about Basketball IQ than Defensive Ability, though.

Happened right after he got packed by Rodman.

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Jesus Christ, if you make a steal because of your IQ it's not good defense?

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It was a single good defensive play he made due to his insanely high basketball IQ. It doesn't mean he was a great defender.

Bird was a decent defender. Great rebounder and ballhawk.

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Bird was a horrendous defense player. Anyone who says otherwise didn't watch him play

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Yet somehow he's 25th all-time in steals per game.

And as far as Bird v. Duncan, if you remove all Spurs and Celtics fans.....I'd guess that 80-90% of the people who saw both would rank Bird ahead of Duncan. It is not a slight to Duncan...Bird was just that good.

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Bird was a horrendous defense player. Anyone who says otherwise didn't watch him play

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Yet somehow he's 25th all-time in steals per game.

And as far as Bird v. Duncan, if you remove all Spurs and Celtics fans.....I'd guess that 80-90% of the people who saw both would rank Bird ahead of Duncan. It is not a slight to Duncan...Bird was just that good.

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To be a devil's advocate:

But in doing that you don't take into account that Bird was a much more high profile player playing for the best nba franchise ever in a time when there really weren't as many nba superstars, so the ones then seemed larger than life. Those things help tilt that type of vote in favor of Bird.

Duncan has been in six finals. He does not suffer from lack of exposure.

It is too bad that Bird's back didn't hold out for 3-5 more years than it did.

This debate always rests on one thing: Are you ranking based on ABILITY or OVERALL CAREER? I always rank based on the former because the latter has too many variables:
1. Jordan
2. Bird
3. Magic
4. Abdul-Jabbar
5. Olajuwon
6. Duncan
7. Russell
8. Kobe
9. Oscar Roberson
10. Shaq

I struggle ranking guys from the 60s and 70s with the guys of the last 20-30 years. I would probably have Wilt and Russell much lower than most.

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This debate always rests on one thing: Are you ranking based on ABILITY or OVERALL CAREER? I always rank based on the former because the latter has too many variables:
1. Jordan
2. Bird
3. Magic
4. Abdul-Jabbar
5. Olajuwon
6. Duncan
7. Russell
8. Kobe
9. Oscar Roberson
10. Shaq

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Has to be combination of the two things. If we're talking ability, LeBron James is a top 3 player all-time. And Kobe Bryant has much more ability than Larry Bird. Same with Hakeem Olajuwon. And damn near everyone else on that list. Bird might have been one of the, if not the smartest basketball player ever. But all the guys on the list have high basketball IQ and otherworldly athleticism.