Do believe that the longevity and success of the "oldtime" coaches is unquestioned but the last game of Pop's Spurs was a beautiful illustration of how the game should be played.

What if the Spurs didn't get Tim Duncan? Ha, well no **** man. What a stupid question.

Obviously it is an argument that has no answer.

I'd probably still have to go with Phil because 11 rings is ridiculous, even if he always had the most talented team in the league in those years. Phil also used one system and it didn't work without a loaded team. That said, he still won 11 Titles.

Red was great but winning those titles then was very different than now. Getting players to play team ball wasn't nearly the same type of challenge either in that generation. Remember as well that the Celtics went right on winning after he quit coaching, in fact the most impressive of the Celtic run was their last title over a very talented Lakers team with an old Celtic team that had lost a lot of its core and Red was not the coach.

Riley is a good coach but the Showtime Lakers were ridiculously talented and had 2 Top 5 All Time players in Kareem and Magic to go with a bunch of other studs. His Title with Miami was actually more impressive imo.

Pop has the most sheer coaching ability of the group though, even if he isn't the best coach. He has taken so many players from the scrap heap and made them in to stars it is hard to count. He has developed so much raw talent from overseas as well. More than that though, he is a tactical genius. His teams have gone from defensive low post focus to offensive fast paced focus with equal success. He makes bold moves like inserting Bonner into the starting lineup and putting CoJo in a closeout game to start the 2nd Half when Parker went down. He has an incredible basketball mind and he knows how to get the absolute maximum out of his players.

Not really a stupid question as pop even told Gundy himself: we won because I have Tim Duncan and you don't.

You're right about Phil and those guys but to act like the spurs started from the third worst team is misleading as there were only there due to an injury to Robinson. I'm not sure how red, Phil and those guys got those players to begin with but pop lucked into Duncan without a doubt.

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TheMasterplan


Not really a stupid question as pop even told Gundy himself: we won because I have Tim Duncan and you don't.

You're right about Phil and those guys but to act like the spurs started from the third worst team is misleading as there were only there due to an injury to Robinson. I'm not sure how red, Phil and those guys got those players to begin with but pop lucked into Duncan without a doubt.

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Pop will never admit to being a good coach. That's his personality, not an argument against his greatness.

I don't think anyone has said that they started from the third worst team or that Pop didn't luck into Duncan. Still, every coach we're talking about had a top 5 player for all or most of his career. As someone said, it's chicken and egg. Would these players have reached the heights that they did without their coaches? Would their coaches have reached the heights they did without their top 5 megastars?

In any case, if you're going to penalize Pop for Duncan then you have to penalize Jackson for Jordan, Pippen, Shaq, and Kobe, Riley for Magic and Kareem, and Red for Russell and company. If you start this game, I don't see how Pop comes out behind because at absolute worst it's a wash, and if it's a wash then you are saying something silly like Duncan=Jordan+Pippen or Duncan=Shaq+Kobe.

Well clearly SA fans are going to say it's Popp. There's no point in arguing either way on this thread.

I never saw Auerbach's Celtics or Riley's Lakers, so I'm not going to venture an opinion on them. I think Pop's teams are better coached than Phil Jackson's were. More polished, more well rounded, incredible player development. Machinelike. The Jackson Lakers were pretty well coached, but not to this level.

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What happens if David Robinson never gets injured the year before they drafted Tim Duncan? Are we still calling him the greatest coach of all time?

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What if the Bulls don't get MJ because the team in front of them that passed on MJ for that other guy (can't remember team or name, was it Portland?)? What it's can be dumb AF.

What happens if the Rockets don't pass on the Clyde Drexler and the #2 pick for Ralph Sampson? Would anyone else have won a title between the mid 80s and late 90a?

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What if the Bulls don't get MJ because the team in front of them that passed on MJ for that other guy (can't remember team or name, was it Portland?)? What it's can be dumb AF.

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Sam Bowie to Portland. Portland drafted Walton, Bowie, and Oden. Throw in Brandon Roy and that's a pretty impressive string of great prospects who never reached their potential due to injury.

[This message has been edited by Ulrich (edited 6/19/2014 2:22p).]

Walton did get them a title but you have a good point. Petered out way too soon.

Petered.

Did the bulls/rockets suck already or did their main player get injured which caused them to suck, get a nice draft pick and come back the best team in the league?

Not at all the same. Mavs simply just sucked which is how they got dirk. (Along with trade).

Which Rockets rebuild? The Morey Rebuild? They sucked, but not enough to have many balls in the lottery.

Spurs only had 4 players in common between 1997 (year they sucked) and 1999 (year they won it all. Robinson, Elliott, Avery and Perdue. Plus new coach. Perdue was pretty much a non-factor on the 99 team (just 7mpg in the playoffs and 12mpg in the regular season.) They made a pretty strong change in those two years, starting with obviously Duncan.

But they also brought on Mario Elie, Jerome Kersey and Steve Kerr to bring some toughness and championship experience. And Jaren Jackson. Does Jaren count as Pop's first diamond in the rough signing? He killed LA in 99.

From the time the Spurs joined the NBA they were a pretty decent team. They made the playoffs a lot, but also had some bad years. I think the combination of getting Duncan and Pop put them over the top and made them the best franchise of the last 15 years.

Since the Spurs joined the NBA, they have only missed the playoffs 4 times. Only team better is the Lakers with 3 (this year, 05 and 94.)

Does it count as making the playoffs if you get swept in the first round like last year?

Pop is a "quiet bad ass", he is fiery on the sidelines but he allows his players to enjoy their success.