Finals comparison. Kobe: 25 pts, 43% FG. Jordan: 33 pts, 50% FG.

Fun fact, career number of playoff games shooting below 40% (throwing out Kobe's first 3 years)...Jordan: 21, Kobe: 49!!! That's an insane number of crappy playoff performances.

MJ: 21/179 (11.7%). Kobe 61/198 (30.8%). Obviously, you can't measure playoff performance solely on FG%, but that stat is astounding to me.

Another fun fact, career number of playoff games scoring less than 20 points (throwing out Kobe's first 3 seasons)...Jordan: 3, Kobe: 25.

How do these things not matter?

[This message has been edited by funky07time (edited 6/18/2010 2:00p).]

another fun fact....

jordan won the same # of titles that kobe has right now in 4 more years than kobe.

we'll see how many kobe has in 4 years.

Um...what? 6 is more than 5. 6 is also more than 2 (# of titles as the best player on their team).

Kobe just finished his 14th season. Jordan played 15 if you want to include the two Wizards seasons. MJ won his 5th in his 12th season, Kobe did it in his 14th...not that it matters. I think you just lost speaking privileges.

[This message has been edited by funky07time (edited 6/18/2010 2:08p).]

let me clarify.

Kobe won his 5th title by 31.

Jordan won his 5th title by 35.

Lets wait to see how many titles kobe has by 35. (4 years)

Fail. Actually Jordan won his 6th title at 35. You do realize Jordan won 6 titles right?

Kobe has had pao and shaq which are better bigs then mj ever had, and mj's numbers are much better. The lakers won despite the klunker kobe threw out there in game 7.

Oh, that and the refs letting the lakers set up camp at the free throw line the entire 4th quarter

i'm not talking about Jordan's 6th. I'm talking about the months between his 5th/birthday. Here's what i mean funky:

The math is pretty close...

Jordan won title #5 on June 13th, 1997. Jordan was born February 17th, 1963. Making him 34 for title #5.

Kobe won title #5 on June 17th, 2010. Kobe was born August 23rd, 1978. Making him 31 for title #5.

June 2011- Kobe is 32
June 2012- Kobe is 33
June 2013- Kobe is 34
June 2014- Kobe is 35

so, i'm still right. Kobe has 4 years to win 1 title to match Jordan by 35 years old. He's 4 years ahead of Jordan.

[This message has been edited by Simplebay (edited 6/18/2010 2:41p).]

Why would you go by age and not number of seasons in the league?

because i dont think jordan was getting any younger when he was gone

quote:

---

another fun fact....

jordan won the same # of titles that kobe has right now in 4 more years than kobe.

---

I mean, I get that you're a LA homer to the nth degree, but this kind of word play is just stupid. You're trying to make it look like Kobe has 4 more years to accomplish what Jordan did, but it's a complete farce.

In reality, Jordan won more titles than Kobe (6-5) in less time (12 season-14 seasons).

Meant for that to say 13 seasons, not 12. No edits using the mobile browser...

MOAR NUMBERS THEN RWAR

Jordan has 6 championships in 1251 games played
Kobe has in 1219 games played

KOBE WILL WIN ANOTHER CHAMPIONSHIP IN 32 GAMES


ps i still said jordan was better fyi.

I won't say it's not even close but consider 2 things:

1. MJ was much more efficient on offense

2. The league was so much more punishing to guards going into the lane back then than they are now. I'd like to see how Kobe would fare in the same physical conditions MJ did. Now, guards are practically untouchable on the perimeter and many fouls that are flagarant now didn't used to be.

the fundamental issue...Kobe was not the best player on his first 3 championship teams. MJ was the best on all 6 of his.

also, did MJ ever lay an egg in a close-out finals game like Kobe did last night?

quote:

---

also, did MJ ever lay an egg in a close-out finals game like Kobe did last night?

---

Michael Jordan missed 20 shots in the last game he ever played as a bull.

quote:

---

besides...you think Jordan saw anything EVER remotely as good as the team defense boston plays?

---

This demonstrates that you have absolutely no understanding of the game of basketball. The Celtics defense is the closest thing to the typical defense played in the late 80's and early 90's. Even with that said, guards are practically untouchable by rule now. Because of the rules on hand-checking and how fouls in the lane are ruled, defense now doesn't come close to touching the defense MJ saw in his day.

players become bigger, faster, stronger over time. not the other way around.

the 60's defense was NOTHING compared to the 80's. the 80's nothing compared to the 2000's. and 90's were nothing compared to the 2010 celtics.


you think Jordan would've been allowed to get a wide open jumper nowadays? really? he was guarded by Bryon Effing Russell. one on one. think about that. i doubt Bryon Russell in his prime is even as good a defender as Tony Allen on an off day.

[This message has been edited by Simplebay (edited 6/19/2010 10:08a).]

Considering you were ALLOWED to hand check and play a ton of defense with your hands in the 80's and not anymore, yes, yes I do think he could get wide open.

Switch to ESPN Classic sometime and watch those guys play. It is 5 times more physical on the perimeter. Defense now, by the necessity of the some of the new rules is a ton lighter than it was in that era. Even the NBA will admit that the defensive rules they've made over the past 15-20 years is to favor a cleaner offensive game with more scoring. And of course, another reason it is the way it is is because players do get bigger and more athletic... they don't want superstars to get seriously injured.

One thing that struck me during game 7 the other night was the physicality that they allowed...then I remembered Jordan played through this crap for all 6 titles.

This is still MJs game, but just being able to debate Kobe/MJ legitimately shows how much Kobe has accomplished.

Maybe I'm wrong about this but I doubt it... 1990's basketball was so far and above what we have today. The league is so watered down now it's unbelievable. Just look at the last say 5 title teams going back to the 06 Heat.

Do you honestly think any of those teams could hold a finger to MJ's Bulls? Much less the 94 or 95 Rockets? Or the Knicks, Pacers, Magic, Suns, Sonics, or Jazz during their decent runs? Prolly not. The 90's was a hell of a time for basketball... were as the 2000s hasnt been (especially the latter half).

I mean hell the 2006 Mavs, 2007 Cavs, 2009 Magic, and even the 2002-2003 Nets, and 2001 Sixers show just how weak the competition has been for teams in the finals.

quote:

---

Maybe I'm wrong about this but I doubt it... 1990's basketball was so far and above what we have today. The league is so watered down now it's unbelievable. Just look at the last say 5 title teams going back to the 06 Heat.

Do you honestly think any of those teams could hold a finger to MJ's Bulls? Much less the 94 or 95 Rockets? Or the Knicks, Pacers, Magic, Suns, Sonics, or Jazz during their decent runs? Prolly not. The 90's was a hell of a time for basketball... were as the 2000s hasnt been (especially the latter half).

---

You are completely wrong.

I mean completely wrong.

The 1990's sucked ass for the NBA.

90's is one of the worst times for the NBA in its history.

You might be the first person ive ever heard glorify the 90's.

This decade the teams and players have been so much better than the crap the NBA put out in the 90's.

The Bulls never had to play teams as good as the Lakers or Spurs when they made it to the finals.

When people remember the 90's they remember the Heat, Knicks, Pacers and just ugly defensive basketball.

I dont think the Bulls would have beaten the Shaq/Kobe Lakers because they would have no answer for Shaq.

I haven't read the thread, just now jumping in, but anyone that thinks Kobe is in the same league as Jordan is flat out retarded. Jordan is on another level from Kobe, and no, it's not close.

Didn't read the whole thread, but this "debate" is ridiculous. There is no debate. Kobe is not on Jordan's level. Jordan was better. Did people only start watching basketball 10 years ago?

so far no one has said kobe >>> jordan.

because it's simply not true.


but you are idiotic if you think they aren't on the same level. and kobe's only 31, he could make a serious push to be the best ever depending on how his body holds up.

Not unless he wins 2-3 more rings and scores 30+ppg over the next 5 years. Which won't happen.

Jordan has a couple things Kobe never will. 30 ppg and 6 Finals MVP's, along with numerous NBA MVP's. Kobe is great, and you'll see me pimping him very much on here (I think he's easily one of the top 10 of all time, maybe even top 5), but Jordan is on another level from the rest of the NBA.

I'm with watty. I have never cared for Kobe but you're an idiot of you don't respect his skill. He's one of the all-time greats.

But he should never be considered in the same breath as Jordan. MJ is in a whole other stratosphere. You can see it just by watching them play. Looking at the numbers just further confirms that this discussion shouldn't even exist.

The OP has three friends who are mentally disabled when it comes to basketball.

I'm not sure that Jordan is better than Magic Johnson. Flame away.

this thread is like a troll breeding ground

quote:

---

I'm not sure that Jordan is better than Magic Johnson

---

I am.

MJ never had anyone near the talent of Shaq on any of his teams. I know Pippen was one of the 50 greatest, etc. but if you ranked him in that 50 as compared to Shaq you could be talking about a top ten player vs. a # 48 or so.....

Kobe is a Great player, but not anywhere near where MJ was...

quote:

---

Michael Jordan missed 20 shots in the last game he ever played as a bull.

---

He went 15 for 35, which is 42.9%. He went 3 for 7 from 3-point range, which is also 42.9%. He shot 12 for 15 from the FT line for 80%. And he score 45 points including the game winning shot. He also had 4 steals in that game. What were Kobe's stats for Game 7?

quote:

---

55-27, only 2 wins less than the 1992-93 team, which had Jordan.

---

How does a good regular season = almost winning a championship? You must be a Mavericks fan.

And Kellso has got to be 100% troll.

quote:

---

players become bigger, faster, stronger over time. not the other way around.

---

Go read up on Wilt. Wilt is the biggest freak of nature to ever play any sport...he could dunk a 12' goal when he was 19....

quote:

---

Of all his memories of Wilt Chamberlain, the one that stood out for Larry Brown happened long after Chamberlain's professional career had ended. On a summer day in the early 1980s, when Brown was coaching at UCLA, Chamberlain showed up at Pauley Pavilion to take part in one of the high-octane pickup games that the arena constantly attracted. "Magic Johnson used to run the games," Brown recalled Tuesday after hearing that Chamberlain, his friend, had died at 63, "and he called a couple of chintzy fouls and a goaltending on Wilt. "So Wilt said: 'There will be no more layups in this gym,' and he blocked every shot after that. That's the truth, I saw it. He didn't let one [of Johnson's] shots get to the rim." Chamberlain would have been in his mid-40s at the time, and he remained in top physical shape until recently[1].

---

Also, see Dr. J, MJ, D Wilkins, Clyde Drexler...Magic.....all of those were freaks of nature that you would be hard pressed to match physically let alone mentally today.

Players today have the advantage of better training, nutrition, steroids, etc....not genetics.

it isn't even up for debate. Jordan is the best and it's not even close.

the guy was more than just championships - for the time he played, jordan WAS basketball.

He was bigger than the game.