I just had a lively discussion with some buddies on the Kobe vs. MJ debate (I didn't realize there was a debate on this, but whatever).

Two buddies are Team Kobe, one feels their greatness is equal, me and another buddy were Team Jordan. I was shocked. And these are pretty knowledgable sports fans.

So...what are your thoughts?

Jordan.

Kobe if he gets to 7 rings.

MJ. By alot.

no discussion

MJ

laughable

By a lot...that's what I said. Don't forget MJ all but certainly would have had 8 rings if not for the gambling, I mean baseball ordeal. Kobe's not even in the Top 5 discussion for me yet.

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Don't forget MJ all but certainly would have had 8 rings if not for the gambling,

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I don't mean to derail the thread, but I can't sit idly by and watch such a display of ignorance. If mj was in the nba for those two years, and he was for a half season, dream would have still been the best player in the league. The man was unbelievable during this period.

MJ would have 10 rings if he played under these rules- can't even touch the guards thanks to the Spurs run

MJ would have 10 rings if he played under these rules- can't even touch the guards thanks to the Spurs run

from Jordan's kid on Twitter

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NO ONE...And I mean NO ONE should EVER com par kobe Bryant to my dad an say that he is anywhere near close to my dad He's jagging this game

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Kobe was the best player on 2 of his championship teams.

MJ lead on all 6. It's not even close.

i think mj is still ahead currently... but kobe definitely can be the best ever

It's pretty simple.....if Kobe wins 2 more, especially the next 2 for a 4-peat, he'll be better than Jordan. If not, he won't.

I'm in MJ camp.

But things I consider:

The refs favored the stars (Jordan especially) wayyy more in the 90s than they do today.

If the two-year-sabbatical hadn't been taken, I think it highly unlikely the Bulls would've won 8 straight. There would've been too much cumulative wear and tear on Jordan's body by the later years. The Bulls also had precious time to retool the role players in the two year gap.

MJ, and there will likely never be anyone comparable. Kobe is not even close.

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If mj was in the nba for those two years, and he was for a half season, dream would have still been the best player in the league

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Wrong. Way Wrong. MJ is the best player of all-time and those two years were right in the middle of his prime.

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It's pretty simple.....if Kobe wins 2 more, especially the next 2 for a 4-peat, he'll be better than Jordan. If not, he won't.

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Nope. Kobe just is not it.

Jordan = SIX Finals MVP's
Kobe = TWO Finals MVP's

End.of.discussion.

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I don't mean to derail the thread, but I can't sit idly by and watch such a display of ignorance. If mj was in the nba for those two years, and he was for a half season, dream would have still been the best player in the league. The man was unbelievable during this period.

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SO you're saying the Hakeem's prime was only 2 years? Where was he in '92 and '93, or again in '96 and '97? If he was so dominate why didn't he even make it to the finals other than those 2 years sans Jordan? He was in the West so if he was so dominate they'd have met the Bulls in the Finals right? Oh wait, they didn't

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Jordan = SIX Finals MVP's
Kobe = TWO Finals MVP's

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Exactly this. For all 6 of his titles, Jordan was the best player on the floor. Kobe hasn't even been the best for half of his. Jordan never played with a player as dominate as Shaq and still has more rings.

And why is the "rings" discsussion so important. I mean I see the allure if it, but is Derek Fischer a better point guard than John Stockton? No...is Dennis Rodman or Robert Horry a better Power Forward than Karl Malone or Charles barkely? No...hell, is Horace Grant a better center than Dwight Howard? Hell no. The ring argument isn't all it's cracked up to be when determining a players value and place in history.

Horace Grant was a forward, not a center.

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SO you're saying the Hakeem's prime was only 2 years? Where was he in '92 and '93, or again in '96 and '97? If he was so dominate why didn't he even make it to the finals other than those 2 years sans Jordan? He was in the West so if he was so dominate they'd have met the Bulls in the Finals right? Oh wait, they didn't

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This is a horrible argument, and I cant even find a point in your incoherent rambling. Are you saying that Hakeem was dominant for more than 2 years, or less than 2 years? It also take more than one dominant player to get to the finals.

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It's pretty simple.....if Kobe wins 2 more, especially the next 2 for a 4-peat, he'll be better than Jordan. If not, he won't.

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Dead wrong. If he wins 2 more rings it won't change the fact that Kobe was Pippen for his first 3.

The whole Hakeem/Jordan argument is stupid. It's impossible to say Hakeem would have been better because it's obvious that was Jordan's prime too, seeing as those 2 years off (say what you want about the half season) were sandwiched between 6 titles. It's impossible to say Jordan was better because Dream dominated those years on the court.

It's a shame we were robbed of them facing off in the playoffs, would have been a pretty epic scorer's duel.

MJ, not even close. Besides just being more gifted as an athlete, Jordan wasnt the kind of guy that had one of the worst games of his life in the deciding game of a championship series.

Last proved, again, that Kobe is winning championships because of the team around him. yeah, Jordan had a great supporting cast, but he TOOK OVER in moments like last night. Kobe just let his all-world center, Artest and odom pick up the slack

Jordan never quit on his team (especially in a playoff game) to prove a point. I should end it right here because that is enough reason, but I will add a few more.

Jordan never had anyone in his head they way Shaq is in Kobe's. Jordan was always the best player on his teams. Plus, most recently: 6-24 in a closeout game? Please... Jordan by a longshot.

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but he TOOK OVER in moments like last night. Kobe just let his all-world center, Artest and odom pick up the slack

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Agree with this. Jordan would have owned the 4th last night. Even though Kobe has been in the league a long time he still has the dumb habit of forcing bad shots at bad times even when he is cold (i.e. last night's 3 when everyone was hitting them at the end). Luckily, Gasol and Artest bailed him out last night.

lotta references to last night's game alone.

the overall points are better. but 1 game? besides...you think Jordan saw anything EVER remotely as good as the team defense boston plays?

what would jordan do on double teams? pass to Kerr and Paxon maybe? i dunno. i kinda heard he did that a few times or something.

and last time i checked Pippen was one of the best athletes in the history of the nba. the perfect role player. and without Jordan, still nearly won a championship with the Bulls. (what was the Bulls record when Jordan was out? really good? oh that's right.)

[This message has been edited by Simplebay (edited 6/18/2010 10:26a).]

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besides...you think Jordan saw anything EVER remotely as good as the team defense boston plays?

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Bad boy Pistons

Not to mention, during Jordan's prime you could tackle guys with little more than a foul being called. these days, the fouls Jordan took are flagrants that often result in ejection.

Shut it down, man

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what would jordan do on double teams?

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Score. A lot.

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and without Jordan, still nearly won a championship with the Bulls.

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They lost in the eastern semifinals, about as far as the Lakers sans-Kobe would get

[This message has been edited by BMEDAggie11 (edited 6/18/2010 10:29a).]

hostile you really think the Lakers would be 55-27 without Kobe?

Jordan had "all world" players too.

now, dont be confused, im still picking jordan until kobe gets 2 more rings.

if kobe finishes with 7 championships and(probably) the all time scoring record, he is the best player of all time.

As it stands now:

1. jordan
2. kareem
3. magic
4. russell
5. wilt
6. kobe
7. bird
8. big o
9. west
10. hakeem

[This message has been edited by Simplebay (edited 6/18/2010 10:43a).]

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the overall points are better. but 1 game? besides...you think Jordan saw anything EVER remotely as good as the team defense boston plays?

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When that "1 game" happens to be a moderately important game 7, I think that says a lot.

This morning the Logo said "Kobe will go down as one of the top 2 players ever. He is the greatest Laker ever" West is damn right about that.

the only question is will kobe be #1 or #2 behind jordan.

[This message has been edited by Simplebay (edited 6/18/2010 11:01a).]

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and without Jordan, still nearly won a championship with the Bulls.

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BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

No wonder everyone on this board laughs at you.

55-27, only 2 wins less than the 1992-93 team, which had Jordan. they had 3 all stars that year and one of them wasn't even Kukoc.

and the eastern semifinals game 7 that year was a knob job by the refs at home in the garden to the nba superfranchise

im fully convince you're 19 cooby and have never seen a basketball game in your life

For the simple fact that people even debate kobe v Jordan........makes kobe great.


Its not like they are comparing him to luc longely.

Lol

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As it stands now:

1. jordan
2. kareem
3. magic
4. russell
5. wilt
6. kobe
7. bird
8. big o
9. west
10. hakeem

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I agree....except I would substitute Tim Duncan for Larry Bird.

4 titles > 3 titles

Kevin Mchale and Robert Parish > Ginobli and Parker.


Manu and Parker are really good players.

McHale and Parish are hall of famers who were typically all NBA players.

Tim Duncan is the modern day Kevin Mchale.

let Duncan play with Dirk (compares to Bird) and Kevin Garnett (compares to Parish as best defensive center in the league at the time) I betcha he wins more than 4.

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SO you're saying the Hakeem's prime was only 2 years? Where was he in '92 and '93, or again in '96 and '97?

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I've seen some bad arguments on TexAgs, but this may surpass them all.
-Do you not realize that an athlete's "prime" years are sandwiched by lesser performances??

1. jordan*
2. magic*
3. russell
4. wilt
5. kobe*
6. kareem
7. bird*
8. big o
9. west
10. hakeem/duncan*

* for players I saw in their prime and remember. I saw Kareem but it was from 81 on.

Kobe is third for me. His 24 point (or whatever it was) quarter impressed me a lot. I think he is hands down a better shooter than Jordan even though their percentages are pretty close and Jordan Shot the 3 from a little further out. Kobe takes and makes more bad shots than anyone I have ever seen. Jordan gets the nod on everything else. He averaged 30 points for his career. Kobe has only done it 3 time in his whole career with one of those at 30.0.

Jordan was a better defensive player, hands down. Jordan did not have to be on to score 35 points. Kobe does.




[This message has been edited by BBDP (edited 6/18/2010 1:44p).]