I personally would love to see a WNBA team play a good HS boys team. I still think the boys get trounced. I watch a lot of basketball and size and speed are very small factors in who utimately wins as long as there's not a gross overmatch. And honestly I look at a WNBA team and they're not going to get physically overmatched by highschool kids. These ladies are big, strong and athletic in their own right.

^
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Gets it.

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as long as there's not a gross overmatch

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That's the thing: There is. The difference in skill and athleticism is too much for even the most fundamental women's team to overcome. Women's "fundamentals" are incredibly overrated, anyway. The average NBA player was much, much further along athletically in 8th grade that any womens has ever been

How many future NBA players are on a good 5A boys basketball team? I'd say you could optimistically say one team this year might have two future NBA players. Its more realistic to have one or none.

I've been to a Silver Starz game recently and I was amazed at how big and athletic these women are. I'm sure the pure speed and jumping ability would still slightly favor the boys, but not enough to create a gross mismatch. This isn't a track meet, it's basketball.

You know how I know you're gay...

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I'm sure the pure speed and jumping ability would still slightly favor the boys, but not enough to create a gross mismatch.

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Okay, you're done sport

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I just think that most of you are beating your chests just a little too much

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It's not "beating your chests" if you think a team of 8th graders (not typical little Johnny, but star 8th graders like those I listed), could beat a WNBA team.

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I'm guessing for many of you, it could be a good 15-20 years before you have a kid that old...thus your unbridled defense of "boys" everywhere

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Man, someone has a chip on their shoulder. This isn't about defending boys. I think Serena Williams would absolutely smoke a stud h.s. or college tennis player. She would get stomped by her male equivalent in the pros though.

Having an 8th grade child or not has nothing to do with perspective on this.

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"Every friend of freedom must be as revolted as I am by the prospect of turning the United States into an armed camp, by the vision of jails filled with casual drug users and of an army of enforcers empowered to invade the liberty of citizens on slight evidence."
---Milton Friedman

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I think Serena Williams would absolutely smoke a stud h.s. or college tennis player.

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Tennis requires speed, strength, and agility, moreso in some cases even than basktball.

Given the argument that is being made on these WNBA threads, a majority of above average senior HS tennis players (boys) would beat Serena Williams, because they'd be faster, stronger and more agile.

Tell me where I've gone wrong there.

[This message has been edited by MassAggie97 (edited 6/10/2009 2:01p).]

My guess is that it is because we can imagine a good women's tennis player that is effective against men without handing in our man cards.

This reminds me of the guys from the ticket who thought they could beat a HS girls basketball team. That was pretty funny too when they got beat.

Simple. Doesn't matter how good of a shot you are, if you give up 4 inches standing, plus another 2 with reach and vertical, it is much harder to get off a good shot.

In tennis, it doesn't matter how tall, fast, strong the opposing player is, if your shot placement is better, you win more often than not. Serena kicks ass in shot placement over HS or college guys. Their best hope is to slaughter her on the serve, which they won't.

[This message has been edited by bigjag19 (edited 6/10/2009 3:36p).]

Mass get completely obliterated repeatedly in the other thread and comes over here still trying to defend his point like it never happened, classic!

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Tennis requires speed, strength, and agility, moreso in some cases even than basktball

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not even close to correct, tennis is about chasing down and hitting a ball, zero physicality with opposing players is involved

Woman's basketball is like men's under water

you can only watch so much before you start to suffocate


sorry but its true

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Doesn't matter how good of a shot you are, if you give up 4 inches standing, plus another 2 with reach and vertical, it is much harder to get off a good shot.

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Mark Price
Steve Kerr
Steve Nash
Jeff Hornacek
Craig Hodges
Chris Mullin
John Paxson
Tim Legler
BJ Armstrong

Mullin was the tallest of that group at 6'6". Legler was like 6'5". Pretty sure the rest were under 6'4".

Jeff Hornacek and Steve Kerr, the greatest outside shooters of all time, were each 6'3" and probably some of the worst athletes in the league in their era.

Keep reaching though.

All guards, generally going against other guards with similar size. Yes, some could drive the lane with success, which is also athleticism. The smaller women guards could not drive the lane like the guys as a whole.

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Simple. Doesn't matter how good of a shot you are, if you give up 4 inches standing, plus another 2 with reach and vertical, it is much harder to get off a good shot.

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Smaller teams win all the time. You ever heard of screens? or back door cuts? How did Princton ever beat UCLA? that is UNPOSSIBLE!!!

Like I said, I watch a lot of basketball. And the smart teams that play together almost always win regardless of how physical the other team is. Why do you think the USA All Star team was always getting creamed by no-name Euro players who couldn't even make the CBA?

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Why do you think the USA All Star team was always getting creamed by no-name Euro players who couldn't even make the CBA?

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You've hit like 5 home runs today.
Hit the showers.

Gigem01--Having an 8th grade child has EVERYTHING to do with perspective. You keep imagining a world full of 8th grade LeBrons and that just isn't even remotely close to realistic. LeBron is definitely exceptional and he was probably quite good in the 8th grade, but for your "normal" people who may even turn out to be studs--but not NBA material--if they are 6'4" in the 8th grade, they aren't even that good yet. When 99% of kids grow that tall, that early, they have to be patient for the coordination to come along. I am not saying that MEN wouldn't beat WOMEN, but women would beat boys.

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Smaller teams win all the time. You ever heard of screens? or back door cuts? How did Princton ever beat UCLA? that is UNPOSSIBLE!!!

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The day ANY women's bball team executes their offense like that will be the first time I've ever seen it. I don't watch women's bball regularly, but there is NO similarity whatsoever to that & what they do. Especially when there are guys defending.

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Like I said, I watch a lot of basketball. And the smart teams that play together almost always win regardless of how physical the other team is. Why do you think the USA All Star team was always getting creamed by no-name Euro players who couldn't even make the CBA?

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This is getting sad. You're operating under the assumption that basketball is not a contact sport. The men are so much stronger that you have any 6'8+ kid back a chick down under the basket (while she can do nothing about it). He stands 2 feet from the basket and tomahawk jams it down her throat every single possession. When the chicks bring the double team (or triple team probably) you dish to one of the infinite kids that can make a 15 foot J over a much smaller defender.

Here's what the boys do on defense. On average, at every position they're taller. Play a 3-2 zone with defenders all around the perimeter, taking away your vaunted end-all-be-all jump-shot-off-the-pick offense. Hell, make it a 4-1 zone and tell your center to NEVER leave his feet when the chicks try to take him to the hoop. He could easily defend them without jumping. The chicks get a hoop every now and then, but that's it.

The score would be an absolute blow out. Like, 101-27 A&M vs. Grambling State blowout.

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You've hit like 5 home runs today.
Hit the showers.

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And you've struck out for the 100th time, just like in the other thread. You found the other guy on Texags who agrees with you and you're giving him the Lewinsky treatment. It's embarrassing.

edit: typo

[This message has been edited by Judge (edited 6/10/2009 5:42p).]

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You're operating under the assumption that basketball is not a contact sport. The men are so much stronger that you have any 6'8+ kid back a chick down under the basket

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This is another point I meant to make. IF, & that would probably be a big if, the game were ref'd correctly it would be another huge hole to overcome.

Of course, I think the women would be able to get away with more shat than Derick Fischer doubling down low.

I should say that the 8th grade All Star team would be an interesting matchup, but again, a GOOD high school bball team with size, outside/inside game, at least a few really good athletes, etc., would kick the shat out of a WNBA team as long as they actually tried & wanted to.

[This message has been edited by Syd_X_Barrett (edited 6/10/2009 5:49p).]

And again, will they play with the big ball that women will struggle to shoot with & control, or the small one that male PG's can easily manipulate & male post players can hold like a softball?

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Gigem01--Having an 8th grade child has EVERYTHING to do with perspective.

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No it doesn't. I don't need to have an 8th grader to know what 8th graders are like. Using your logic, or lack thereof, you can't understand it because you've never been an 8th grade boy.

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You keep imagining a world full of 8th grade LeBrons and that just isn't even remotely close to realistic.

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I'm not imagining this. My examples have solely been of the cream of the crop of 8th grade boys vs. a WNBA team.

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if they are 6'4" in the 8th grade, they aren't even that good yet. When 99% of kids grow that tall, that early, they have to be patient for the coordination to come along.

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Which is why schools like Kentucky are already offering these kids scholarships? If all they had was height, then your argument would have a shred of validity. These kids are big AND talented.

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I am not saying that MEN wouldn't beat WOMEN, but women would beat boys.

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Would a WNBA team beat the average 8th grade team? Yes. Would they beat the best 8th graders in the country? No.

[This message has been edited by GigEm01 (edited 6/10/2009 6:27p).]

You are right. I've never been an 8th grade boy but I see them every single day...all shapes and sizes and they aren't what you are making them out to be. Really. Trust me.

No one is saying the Bryan 8th grade basketball team could beat a WNBA team....Or that a random selection of 8th graders could....I would argue that, say, an all-Texas 8th grade team could do it. Maybe even an all-Houston or all-Dallas team.

5aggies,
How many times do I have to say it? I'm not claiming a random collection of average 8th grade boys could beat a WNBA team. I'm talking about those players listed on page 1. The top 8th graders in the country. Those kids are not just tall. They are big AND talented, or else they wouldn't already have scholarship offers from the top teams in the country.

I would take the top 5 players listed on page 1 and feel confident they would beat the women. These aren't the average 8th graders. These are the cream of the crop, and IMO, they would beat a WNBA team.

There are always exceptions to the rule. I turn 50 this year and I am sure I can gather a group of guys around my age and size and beat some 20 year olds but I doubt the top 10 8th graders in the country could beat a WNBA team.

Ranger Red,

I thought of the Ticket game too, but the Ticket did not actually think they were going to win the game. They talked a bunch of crap on the radio to be funny, but I promise you they did not actually think they would win. I went to the game and they did not have one player who was a ball handler, shooter, or even in shape. It was fun to watch. Somehow they were actually up at the half, but then
Corby got hurt and it went downhill.

There's a lot of goalpost shifting in these threads. The OPs were comparing the best WNBA team to a "good" HS, and then the discussion turned into a WNBA team (not necessarily the best) vs. all-star teams or teams of LeBron clones.

It may very well be that a good HS or 8th grade boys team would beat the Detroit Shock (the 2008 WNBA champs) but it seems to me that it's not completely obvious. I don't watch the WNBA or HS bball, and it was more work than I was willing to put in to figure out what an average good HS team would look like. But I was able to find a roster for Cedar Hill, which made the 5A championship game.

Cedar Hill had one senior who was good enough to show up on rivals, 6-6 PF Shawn Glover, who is going to Utah. Their tallest player is 6-7 Soph C/F Thomas Gipson, who is listed as a 3-star. The rest of their leading scorers/rebounders/assist players are a couple of 6-3 forwards and a bunch of guards who go 5-11 to 6-2. The Shock had significant frontline contributors who are listed at 6-6, 6-3, 6-2, 6-2 (for 2009 they added a 6-4 rookie). Given the HS height inflation, the height advantage for Cedar Hill isn't that great. The Shock players are heavier in many cases. The Shock's main guards are 5-9, 5-11, 5-11.

I expect that the Cedar Hill boys can seriously outjump the Shock players, even when their measured heights are similar. But that may not translate into dunks and rebounds if the Shock can block out. With coaching from Bill Lambeer and Rick Mahorn, I imagine that they put bodies on their opponents, and with HS bodies that haven't hit a D1 weight room, backing the Shock forwards down may not be that easy... especially depending on how the game would be called.

The assumption that the women wouldn't get their shots off based on how various posters "had to go easy" on women they played in rec center games has several problems:
- WNBA teams probably are better at running structured offenses that get players open looks than teams in pickup games.
- None of the Aggie women were good enough to make any WNBA team this year, much less the champs.
- The average women's bball player today is much better than the average player from several years ago, simply because more women are playing and they've had more years of coaching. For a lot of you, the players you saw in the gym back then is like comparing college men's players from the 1940s to todays players. I think the skill improvement slope is steeper in the women's game right now than in the men's.

An actual game between the Shock and Cedar Hill could turn out to be decided by how good Cedar Hill's 4th-7th best players are. Everyone on the Shock roster was good enough so that the leading scorer in Aggie women's history didn't even get a tryout. Don't you think it's even possible that one of them might light up the weakest link on Cedar Hill if she runs him through three screens per play? Plus how mature will a HS team be in handling getting behind or trash-talking from women who are closer in age to their mothers than to their girlfriends?

Now, this analysis could be off. But I'm starting with a team that made the 5A championship game. The other thread was about a "good" team, which to me includes a lot of teams that didn't go as far as Cedar Hill. And now you experts are saying it's a no brainer that there's no chance that the Shock could beat a good 8th grade team. That's the title of the thread, right? Not whether the Shock could beat an 8th grade all-star team or even a top AAU team.

Sheesh.

http://sports.yahoo.com/wnba/boxscore;_ylt=AiJQZbwHUT_rooaX1YubXqplvrYF?gid=20090606004

random box score, and that was against WOMEN guarding them, imagine what developed (yes hs seniors are physically developed) athletes would do to them not to mention having to play with a real ball,
those 18 turnovers would at least double leading to guarandamnteed points every time, they wouldn't get half the rebounds, completely run off the court on both ends, SIZE STRENGTH and SPEED SPEED SPEED would only be the beginning of their doom
you're insane if you think they stand a chance especially physically




[This message has been edited by EliteZags (edited 6/11/2009 4:57a).]

[This message has been edited by EliteZags (edited 6/11/2009 4:58a).]

I don't think the posters who are arguing that the WNBA team could - not would - win such a game are saying that they wouldn't be at a disadvantage physically. What I'm saying is that I think you are overestimating how much that physical advantage would translate into dominance on the court. I can imagine that a good HS team would blow out the Shock, esp. if the boys play up to their potential and the Shock play like the box score you linked. But I think you guys are just showing a lack of imagination to say, no, never, couldn't happen.

Those 6-6 women outside of 1-2 in the entire league are SLOW (& the 1-2 aren't terribly quick themselves comparatively) & their heights are fudged the same way.

As I've said twice now & Elite just mentioned, the number of unforced turnovers & blown layups, mostly uncosted, are at least double in the women's game & that's without guys guarding them. That very thing right there would probably give the guys a 20 point cushion & that's conservative. So, the women would have to be 30 or more points better in the half court game to win. They won't be playing the Ticket, they'll be playing a "team". One that runs offenses & plays team defense. They'll be playing a team with stronger, quicker & bigger players in the post, so as stated, the women will need to shoot lights out from outside to have a chance. I'm talking over 50% from 3 because the transition game will be lopsided.

And again, what ball is used? If it's the guys, I'll love to see how those inflated shooting %'s tumble. If it's the girls, the guy PG's are going to be grinning ear to ear & the guy post players will be able to grab it like a softball inside making it a lot easier to go to the basket.

The women will need a night like Orlando had on Tuesday w/as few turnovers as possible AND the refs letting them get away with murder on defense to have a shot. When you account for what's mentioned above, it's common sense.

[This message has been edited by Syd_X_Barrett (edited 6/11/2009 10:48a).]

The fact that 8th graders vs. professional women is even up for discussion speaks volumes about the quality of the WNBA

We could have a discussion about big foot or chupacabra's on Texags.com. Does that increase the probability that they're real?