He has a freakin' movie coming out about him that will air uninterrupted on ESPN right in the middle of the NBA playoffs.

He also has the top selling jersey in the league. Again. He was still a top-five jersey seller during his Colorado episode.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3866598

I also read that companies that sponsored him before the trial, like Nutella, came crawling back and he said no. The only company that stuck with him was Nike for which he helped push their Hyperdunk which damn near every rec baller wears.

And all that aside, the mere fact that he's a wing player as opposed to a post player, makes him infinitely more marketable than Duncan.

Put Kobe in San Antonio and Duncan in LA and Duncan is one of the top marketed athletes in the NBA.

Anyone who doesn't think that has a lot to do with it is kidding themselves.

In summary, we will meet within the month, Hotard! Are you excited?

You're right... maybe it's because he's in LA. Then again, there's the whole... best player in the NBA thing.

Only Kobe is not the best player in the league. The best player in the league plays in a little ****hole on Erie.

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Put Kobe in San Antonio and Duncan in LA and Duncan is one of the top marketed athletes in the NBA

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Sure, Duncan would be praised daily as the 2nd coming of Bill Russell, and Kobe would be closer to Gilbert Arenas level exposure. But I think Wilt Chamberlain was much more of a marketing force than Bill Russell, even before he got to LA (just a hunch, no evidence sought). Duncan can't escape his boringness.

Rankings based on body of work:

MJ
Shaq
Duncan
Kobe
Dream
Robinson
Wade
Lebron
Detlef

If I drafting a team tomorrow and all these guys were 19 years old.

MJ
Shaq
Dream
Lebron
Robinson
Wade
Kobe
Duncan
Detlef

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But I think Wilt Chamberlain was much more of a marketing force than Bill Russell, even before he got to LA (just a hunch, no evidence sought)

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I dont think anyone was all that much of a marketing force back in the 60s in the NBA. Except maybe Meadowlark Lemon.

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Rankings based on body of work:

MJ
Shaq
Duncan
Kobe
Dream
Robinson
Wade
Lebron
Detlef

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I can't fathom putting Kobe over Hakeem based on body of work.

Remember that Olajuwon played during Jordan's time....Possibly another ring or MVP was paossible.

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Possibly another ring or MVP was paossible.

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LAWL.

Michael Jordan
Hakeem Olajuwon
Tim Duncan
LeBron James
Shaq
Kobe Bryant
Dwayne Wade
David Robinson
Detlef Schremp

MJ and Hakeem won titles without any other superstars on their team.

No one was a Superstar besides Tim Duncan on the 2003 Spurs.

Parker sucked against Kidd and the Spurs had to play Speedy Claxton instead.

Ginobili was a rookie and averages 7/2/2.

Robinson was in his last year where he averaged 8/8.

Rank in the order that you would pick them to be on your team (players in their prime):

Michael Jordan
Shaq
Tim Duncan
LeBron James
Hakeem Olajuwon
Dwayne Wade
Kobe Bryant
David Robinson

I am utterly surprised how many people are putting Shaq over The Dream? Hakeem had/has way more of an offense arsenal than Shaq and he is all-time block leader. Once Shaq gets more that 5 feet from the basket he is worthless and cant even hit a free throw. Hakeem is far and away the best big man on the list.

I don't have any magic criteria for my list. I'm just shooting from the hip here...

Michael Jordan
LeBron James
Hakeem Olajuwon
Shaq
Tim Duncan
Kobe Bryant
Dwayne Wade
David Robinson
Detlef Schremp

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I am utterly surprised how many people are putting Shaq over The Dream?

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So if you had Shaq in his prime was standing next to Hakeem in his prime and you had to pick one to be on your team, you'd take Hakeem?

Well, then, you'd lose.

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So if you had Shaq in his prime was standing next to Hakeem in his prime and you had to pick one to be on your team, you'd take Hakeem?

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Didn't that happen in 1995?

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Well, then, you'd lose.

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Says the guy who put Duncan over The Dream, Kobe and LeBron.

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Says the guy who put Duncan over The Dream, Kobe and LeBron.

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Duncan has more Finals MVPs than the Dream, Kobe and LeBron combined.

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none of them (save Lebron) understood and/or play team defense as well
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cough jordan cough


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and none of them were the centerpiece of a 4-ring team
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cough JORDAN cough

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I was talking about everyone on that list who was listed BEFORE Duncan. Obviously Jordan is #1 on everyone's list.

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So if you had Shaq in his prime was standing next to Hakeem in his prime and you had to pick one to be on your team, you'd take Hakeem?

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Yes I would in a heartbeat. Shaq was good but not great until he was paired with Kobe and Phil (who I think should be accredited with most of Shaq's success anyways).

MJ, Kobe, Lebron, Hakeem, Wade are all great players whereas I think Shaq and Duncan are products of great teams and coaches.

Robinson was good but not in that upper tier ala Karl Malone.

[This message has been edited by Ag_07 (edited 5/6/2009 3:55p).]

Sorry...I forgot I posted this.

Detlef was just a joke.

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So if you had Shaq in his prime was standing next to Hakeem in his prime and you had to pick one to be on your team, you'd take Hakeem?

Didn't that happen in 1995?

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Shaq was 22 in 1995. It's a close call, but give me Shaq in his prime when he was completely unstoppable, and then exchange Kobe for another all-star swingman that isn't a social basketcase.

(* cue the "there were no great centers to go against when Shaq was in his prime" retort*)

[This message has been edited by InternetFan02 (edited 5/6/2009 5:01p).]

Shaq in his prime was more dominanting offensively than Hakeem was, but Hakeem affected games in so many more ways with his passing, shot blocking ability, steals, running the floor, etc. It's really hard to compare 2 players who are top 5 centers all time and you can't go wrong with either one.

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Shaq was 22 in 1995.

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Shaq was 23.
Shaq led the league in Points, PPG, FGM, FGA and FTA that year.
His numbers:
29.3/11.4/2.7/2.4
That's not his prime?

I'd rate Shaq's seasons:
2000
1994
1995
2001

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Robinson was good but not in that upper tier ala Karl Malone.

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Guess we have another poster who's posts show that their opinions have zero bearing on reality.

Shaq turned 23 near the end of the season. For consistency, he is noted as being 22 for the entire season on basketball-reference. You suggested 2 primes separated by some years. If you had to choose 1 set of seasons as "in his prime" you should choose 2000 through 2001.

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Robinson was good but not in that upper tier ala Karl Malone.

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Valid point. Both are MVPs that failed to lead their team to a title when they were the #1 franchise player.

IF - by saying valid point, you are agreeing that Robinson isn't on the same level as Malone?

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Shaq turned 23 near the end of the season. For consistency, he is noted as being 22 for the entire season on basketball-reference. You suggested 2 primes separated by some years. If you had to choose 1 set of seasons as "in his prime" you should choose 2000 through 2001.

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Shaq was 23 during the 1995 NBA Finals. Fact/Schrute

Shaq's best 4 seasons are easily 94, 95, 00 and 01. It is just how it is. I don't know how you can really make an argument that he wasn't in his prime when he led the league in scoring and put up 29/12.

how is detlef flying under the radar in this argument?

I think you misinterpreted what he said...he thinks Robinson and Malone are both in the same tier clearly underneath the others...with Barkley, Payton, etc.

I don't get how anyone can put David Robinson over Tim Duncan. The spurs would have zero titles without Duncan. They would have 2, maybe 3 without robinson. Tim Duncan was the best thing to even happen to the spurs, not Robinson.

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If I drafting a team tomorrow and all these guys were 19 years old.

MJ
Shaq
Dream
Lebron
Robinson
Wade
Kobe
Duncan
Detlef

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Do you really think that if you substituted Wade or Robinson for duncan the spurs would have as many titles?? When drafting, are you simply looking for marketing with some of these picks or are you trying to win games. Because if you were trying to win games you most certainly should pick timmy over those two.

[This message has been edited by beerad12man (edited 5/6/2009 6:23p).]

And yes, hypothetically I realize that would put 2 robinsons on the floor for some of those teams.

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I think Shaq and Duncan are products of great teams and coaches.

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In 2005, you had Duncan, Ginobili, and Parker. Outside of that no one averaged over 9 ppg except Glenn Robinson in his 9 games. Bowen was our 4th leading scorer at 8.6.

Same thing in 2007. Either the 2005, or 2007 teams were our weakest and both most likely first round exits without Duncan. Outside of the big 3, your top scorer was Michael Finley at 9.0 ppg. Barry at 8.5, and Bowen at 6.2

In 1999, zero chance without Duncan. That goes without saying.

IMO, the spurs obviously have ZERO championships, and probably wouldn't have even made the Western conference Finals one time in the past 10 years without Timmah.



[This message has been edited by beerad12man (edited 5/6/2009 6:41p).]

whoever put David Robisnon below Lame Wade is the Biggest Idiot of all time. It takes a special type of retarded to pull that off.