Yeah, you should've stopped. Calling any USMNT player "utter trash" is despicable.deadbq03 said:
I'm not explaining myself well, so I should probably stop.
Jozy has a ton of goals because he has a ton of caps... because guys behind him were utter trash.
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Purported USMNT insider 29 says it's just a knock and that he should be ready for preseason. Let's hope that's true.
Yeah, there's some pretty heavy revisionist history going down in the last couple of pages.JJxvi said:
Ricardo Pepi gets loaned to Gronigen, scores like 10 goals, finishes dead last in the Eredivisie....awesome player.
Jozy Altidore, at basically the same age went to AZ for two seasons and scored like 40 goals for a European spot contending team, won a Dutch cup, played in a European final, named in Eredivisie teams of the year....trash.
Given the player pool, what era he played in, and where he played, I'm not inclined to crap all over Jozy because maybe he doesn't measure up to the CURRENT crop of players. Jozy was a very good player for the USMNT. I think calling him utter garbage or crap is a bit of hyperbole.
People think I'm an idiot or something, because all I do is cut lawns for a living.
Gio with another dribbling highlight, this time vs. Canada
GIO REYNA STOP IT 🤢
— USMNT Only (@usmntonly) June 19, 2023
(via @CBSSportsGolazo) pic.twitter.com/eHz0J7a06y
"And liberals, being liberals, will double down on failure." - dedgod
The last turn he made, where he just leaves the guy standing still, was filthy.akm91 said:
Gio with another dribbling highlight, this time vs. CanadaGIO REYNA STOP IT 🤢
— USMNT Only (@usmntonly) June 19, 2023
(via @CBSSportsGolazo) pic.twitter.com/eHz0J7a06y
All the rest of it was great too, good quick touches to avoid pressure.
He reminds me so much of Kaka. Just the way he moves, style of dribbling, etc.PatAg said:The last turn he made, where he just leaves the guy standing still, was filthy.akm91 said:
Gio with another dribbling highlight, this time vs. CanadaGIO REYNA STOP IT 🤢
— USMNT Only (@usmntonly) June 19, 2023
(via @CBSSportsGolazo) pic.twitter.com/eHz0J7a06y
All the rest of it was great too, good quick touches to avoid pressure.
If he can stay healthy, and GGG doesn't mess around, he can have a special career with the USMNT.
Yeah, that turn was pure class.
"And liberals, being liberals, will double down on failure." - dedgod
I'd be curious, but am too lazy, to see how many of Jozy's international goals came from playing bottom feeders in CONCACAF qualifying or Gold Cup. I remember he used to feast in CONCACAF and then disappeared and didn't do much at WC or CA level
Turns out it's much easier to find. Of his 41 goals in 110 caps, more than half are against the mid to bottom tier CONCACAF.
Trinidad and Tobago - 5
Bosnia and Herzegovina - 3
Panama - 3
Jamaica - 3
Saint Vincent and the Grenadines - 3
Canada - 2
El Salvador - 2
Honduras - 2
Nigeria - 2
Peru - 2
Chile - 1
Colombia - 1
Costa Rica - 1
Denmark - 1
Germany - 1
Guadeloupe - 1
Guatemala - 1
Iceland - 1
Mexico - 1
Poland - 1
Slovenia - 1
Spain - 1
Turkey - 1
Total - 41
To be expected given more CONCACAF games so more volume, but this is the one that really stood out to me.
Friendlies - 18 Goals
WC Qualifying - 18 GOALS
Gold Cup - 4 Goals
Confederations Cup - 1 Goal
Copa America - 0 Goals
World Cup - 0 Goals
Jozy was a good player, not a great one. We had a lot of flash in the pan strikers and he was consistent, but he didn't deliver in the big moments. Don't know if Balogun will pan out, but that's what we sorely need is a striker that can scored in the biggest moments.
Trinidad and Tobago - 5
Bosnia and Herzegovina - 3
Panama - 3
Jamaica - 3
Saint Vincent and the Grenadines - 3
Canada - 2
El Salvador - 2
Honduras - 2
Nigeria - 2
Peru - 2
Chile - 1
Colombia - 1
Costa Rica - 1
Denmark - 1
Germany - 1
Guadeloupe - 1
Guatemala - 1
Iceland - 1
Mexico - 1
Poland - 1
Slovenia - 1
Spain - 1
Turkey - 1
Total - 41
To be expected given more CONCACAF games so more volume, but this is the one that really stood out to me.
Friendlies - 18 Goals
WC Qualifying - 18 GOALS
Gold Cup - 4 Goals
Confederations Cup - 1 Goal
Copa America - 0 Goals
World Cup - 0 Goals
Jozy was a good player, not a great one. We had a lot of flash in the pan strikers and he was consistent, but he didn't deliver in the big moments. Don't know if Balogun will pan out, but that's what we sorely need is a striker that can scored in the biggest moments.
He was on the squad in 2010, didn't score. Got hurt after 20' in 2014. We didn't qualify in 2018.
He was great for that USMNT at that time. Whole team underperformed at the WC during his time.
I'll add that scoring against mid-table CONCACAF teams during those years isn't something to brush off as insignificant either. Results were hard to come by some of those years and Jozy's goals helped get us to those WCs.
He was great for that USMNT at that time. Whole team underperformed at the WC during his time.
I'll add that scoring against mid-table CONCACAF teams during those years isn't something to brush off as insignificant either. Results were hard to come by some of those years and Jozy's goals helped get us to those WCs.
Although he didn't score in 2010, I remember his perfectly placed header while fighting off a defender to set up Bradley's tying goal against Slovenia. Plus his pass to Dempsey at the end of the Algeria game leading to Donovan's goal was pretty significant. I agree that he was great contributor for the US on teams that were oh so disappointing too often!
I think he earns a pass on the World Cup, because I remember him being in great form going into 2014 only to basically get immediately hurt.Texan_Aggie said:
Turns out it's much easier to find. Of his 41 goals in 110 caps, more than half are against the mid to bottom tier CONCACAF.
Trinidad and Tobago - 5
Bosnia and Herzegovina - 3
Panama - 3
Jamaica - 3
Saint Vincent and the Grenadines - 3
Canada - 2
El Salvador - 2
Honduras - 2
Nigeria - 2
Peru - 2
Chile - 1
Colombia - 1
Costa Rica - 1
Denmark - 1
Germany - 1
Guadeloupe - 1
Guatemala - 1
Iceland - 1
Mexico - 1
Poland - 1
Slovenia - 1
Spain - 1
Turkey - 1
Total - 41
To be expected given more CONCACAF games so more volume, but this is the one that really stood out to me.
Friendlies - 18 Goals
WC Qualifying - 18 GOALS
Gold Cup - 4 Goals
Confederations Cup - 1 Goal
Copa America - 0 Goals
World Cup - 0 Goals
Jozy was a good player, not a great one. We had a lot of flash in the pan strikers and he was consistent, but he didn't deliver in the big moments. Don't know if Balogun will pan out, but that's what we sorely need is a striker that can scored in the biggest moments.
That's why I said he was good, but not great. Whether by his fault or injury, he just never took that next step like Dempsey, Donovan, etc.
It's really hard to compare past players against the current crop as the playing styles were vastly different and a big disparity in the overall quality of the team. Remember the diamond and the empty bucket midfields?
Pulisic already has 4 goals against Mexico and he's only 24. I think Donovan only has 6 goals against Mexico in his career.
Pulisic already has 4 goals against Mexico and he's only 24. I think Donovan only has 6 goals against Mexico in his career.
"And liberals, being liberals, will double down on failure." - dedgod
From my quick perusal of Wikipedia,
Clint Dempsey scored 35 goals against CONCACAF and 22 against everyone else. 61/39%
57 goals in 141 appearances, 0.40/game
Landon Donovan scored 38 goals against CONCACAF and 19 against everyone else. 67/33%
57 goals in 157 appearances, 0.36/game
Jozy Altidore 26 goals against CONCACAF and 16 against everyone else. 62/38%
42 goals in 115 appearances, 0.37/game
Looking at it through this lens, they all seem about the same.
Fun facts, Dempsey is right behind Thierry Henry in goal/appearance ratio. Donovan and Altidore would be just ahead of Alexis Sanchez (Chile).
Clint Dempsey scored 35 goals against CONCACAF and 22 against everyone else. 61/39%
57 goals in 141 appearances, 0.40/game
Landon Donovan scored 38 goals against CONCACAF and 19 against everyone else. 67/33%
57 goals in 157 appearances, 0.36/game
Jozy Altidore 26 goals against CONCACAF and 16 against everyone else. 62/38%
42 goals in 115 appearances, 0.37/game
Looking at it through this lens, they all seem about the same.
Fun facts, Dempsey is right behind Thierry Henry in goal/appearance ratio. Donovan and Altidore would be just ahead of Alexis Sanchez (Chile).
Texan_Aggie said:
That's why I said he was good, but not great. Whether by his fault or injury, he just never took that next step like Dempsey, Donovan, etc.
Quality stats there Skinner…
aggiephoenix02 said:
Quality stats there Skinner…
To be fair, that's one perspective. If we broke it down by actual quality of opponent and circumstances, etc, it probably looks different. Not to mention Altidore was a pure forward versus Dempsey/Donovan living in that not-quite-striker-but-not-quite-midfielder area. You'd hope the former would be more effective and efficient at scoring.
Position aside, all three were supposed to be one of the top one or two goal scorers on their teams. It's a very fair and reasonable stat.
But you'd have to have on blinders not to see the difference between the three players, Donovan and Deuce were world class level players…
But you'd have to have on blinders not to see the difference between the three players, Donovan and Deuce were world class level players…
I made a chart of all this, but you beat me to it!LeonardSkinner said:
From my quick perusal of Wikipedia,
Clint Dempsey scored 35 goals against CONCACAF and 22 against everyone else. 61/39%
57 goals in 141 appearances, 0.40/game
Landon Donovan scored 38 goals against CONCACAF and 19 against everyone else. 67/33%
57 goals in 157 appearances, 0.36/game
Jozy Altidore 26 goals against CONCACAF and 16 against everyone else. 62/38%
42 goals in 115 appearances, 0.37/game
Looking at it through this lens, they all seem about the same.
Fun facts, Dempsey is right behind Thierry Henry in goal/appearance ratio. Donovan and Altidore would be just ahead of Alexis Sanchez (Chile).
First time I recall anyone suggesting LD took a 'next step.'Texan_Aggie said:
That's why I said he was good, but not great. Whether by his fault or injury, he just never took that next step like Dempsey, Donovan, etc.
Landon was so often criticized for disappearing for long stretches it became cliche.
How many of LD's goal were PKs?LeonardSkinner said:
From my quick perusal of Wikipedia,
Clint Dempsey scored 35 goals against CONCACAF and 22 against everyone else. 61/39%
57 goals in 141 appearances, 0.40/game
Landon Donovan scored 38 goals against CONCACAF and 19 against everyone else. 67/33%
57 goals in 157 appearances, 0.36/game
Jozy Altidore 26 goals against CONCACAF and 16 against everyone else. 62/38%
42 goals in 115 appearances, 0.37/game
Looking at it through this lens, they all seem about the same.
Fun facts, Dempsey is right behind Thierry Henry in goal/appearance ratio. Donovan and Altidore would be just ahead of Alexis Sanchez (Chile).
How many PKs did LD take over Clint and Jozy?
Donovan also had very little club success outside the US.
To this point Dempsey is by far our most accomplished international forward, preceded by a few legends like McBride and likely to soon be eclipsed by Pulisic, Balogun, and others.
To this point Dempsey is by far our most accomplished international forward, preceded by a few legends like McBride and likely to soon be eclipsed by Pulisic, Balogun, and others.
There was that fun little stint at Everton... should have stayed there.
Right, LD and Dempsey still not on the elite level, but still a step above Altidore.tysker said:First time I recall anyone suggesting LD took a 'next step.'Texan_Aggie said:
That's why I said he was good, but not great. Whether by his fault or injury, he just never took that next step like Dempsey, Donovan, etc.
Landon was so often criticized for disappearing for long stretches it became cliche.
tysker said:How many of LD's goal were PKs?LeonardSkinner said:
From my quick perusal of Wikipedia,
Clint Dempsey scored 35 goals against CONCACAF and 22 against everyone else. 61/39%
57 goals in 141 appearances, 0.40/game
Landon Donovan scored 38 goals against CONCACAF and 19 against everyone else. 67/33%
57 goals in 157 appearances, 0.36/game
Jozy Altidore 26 goals against CONCACAF and 16 against everyone else. 62/38%
42 goals in 115 appearances, 0.37/game
Looking at it through this lens, they all seem about the same.
Fun facts, Dempsey is right behind Thierry Henry in goal/appearance ratio. Donovan and Altidore would be just ahead of Alexis Sanchez (Chile).
How many PKs did LD take over Clint and Jozy?
Transfermarkt.us for all your football statistics rabbit holes…
11 international PKs scored for Donovan (1 miss)
7 for Dempsey (1 miss)
4 for Altidore (1 miss)
Interesting factoid:
Now we can add in Flo at .5 goals per cap
Did we discuss the Canadian coach wearing an AirPod? Is that legal?
as long as they don't use anything to communicate electronically with players, sure.Aggies1322 said:
Did we discuss the Canadian coach wearing an AirPod? Is that legal?
Mathguy64 said:as long as they don't use anything to communicate electronically with players, sure.Aggies1322 said:
Did we discuss the Canadian coach wearing an AirPod? Is that legal?
How odd.. dude just looks like a ****** bag.
Not sure we should be using the term "world class" to describe Dempsey, Donovan, or any other USMNT player. We've never had one, in my opinion, and we haven't been all that close to having one either.
My personal opinion is that, even though it's a limited sample size, you can really only judge a player's quality by how they fare against elite competition and on the biggest stages. When you do that, players like Jozy fall away a bit (mostly below average in Europe...no WC goals) and players like Dempsey and Donovan rise to the top. Neither of them succeeded at a world class level but 1 and 2 on the list of WC goals in USMNT history, Dempsey's exploits in Europe, and Donovan's 2002 level of play (awarded Best Young Player of the tournament) are more than enough to clearly separate them from everyone else and by some distance.
BTW, Claudio Reyna obviously didn't score the goals of Donovan or Dempsey but he belongs in that 1st tier of USMNT players. I know it's not a thing anymore but still mightily impressive that he was on a WC All-Star Team...even if he has turned into a giant jackass.
My personal opinion is that, even though it's a limited sample size, you can really only judge a player's quality by how they fare against elite competition and on the biggest stages. When you do that, players like Jozy fall away a bit (mostly below average in Europe...no WC goals) and players like Dempsey and Donovan rise to the top. Neither of them succeeded at a world class level but 1 and 2 on the list of WC goals in USMNT history, Dempsey's exploits in Europe, and Donovan's 2002 level of play (awarded Best Young Player of the tournament) are more than enough to clearly separate them from everyone else and by some distance.
BTW, Claudio Reyna obviously didn't score the goals of Donovan or Dempsey but he belongs in that 1st tier of USMNT players. I know it's not a thing anymore but still mightily impressive that he was on a WC All-Star Team...even if he has turned into a giant jackass.
Wouldn't qualify any of our best keepers as world class (Howard, Friedel or Keller)?
Those 3 (particularly Howard) definitely fit the bill in their primes.Pahdz said:
Wouldn't qualify any of our best keepers as world class (Howard, Friedel or Keller)?
Howard could be classified as such if the 2014 WC knockout game against Belgium was the only gahe ever played.