Messi to the MLS

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aTmAg
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9:24a, 7/26/23
AG
I rarely watched MLS before now. I took my kids to a FC Dallas game once, but that was like 1.5 hour drive, so I didn't do that again.

But I was getting the impression (from afar) that every few years a top 3 league player would go to MLS, be expected to crush everybody, and then be good but not league busting. It made me respect MLS more. I figured that the young MLS dudes were just too fit to let the aging studs work their magic.

But, damn Messi is making opponents look like a girl teams right now. Even though he is not as fast as they are.
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tysker
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9:40a, 7/26/23
AG
Tom Brady made Tampa Bay a super bowl contender and winner in a league were parity is designed in.

I didn't see the game in Atlanta but saw the previous match and its not just Messi. Busquets sees the game at such a different level than these MLS defenders have experienced. We saw the same type of player with Valderrama and Pirlo when they joined the league. It will take time for players to adjust. Barcelona wasn't built in a day
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jeffk
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9:44a, 7/26/23
AG
I mean he won the golden ball at the WC less than a year ago and averaged a goal or an assist a game this past season at PSG. People using this as some sort of negative critique on MLS just have an ax to grind there.

Also, it takes a bit to figure out the tactics necessary to even hope to neutralize/limit the damage caused by a player like him. "Why don't they mark him closer?!" is a fun thing to throw out in the midst of an ass-kicking like last night, but that's something that's going to take some practice. Only a handful of guys in the entire league have ever played against a guy of Messi's caliber before. Coaches too.
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jeffk
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9:46a, 7/26/23
AG
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tysker
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In reply to jeffk • 9:51a, 7/26/23
AG
They said 'mark him closer' then Pippen went off for 35 with Jordon still getting 16 mostly from the line
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aTmAg
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In reply to tysker • 9:51a, 7/26/23
AG
tysker said:
Tom Brady made Tampa Bay a super bowl contender and winner in a league were parity is designed in.

I didn't see the game in Atlanta but saw the previous match and its not just Messi. Busquets sees the game at such a different level than these MLS defenders have experienced. We saw the same type of player with Valderrama and Pirlo when they joined the league. It will take time for players to adjust. Barcelona wasn't built in a day
But Tampa Bay wasn't last place when Brady arrived. They had a lot of good players in place.

And if you saw the Atlanta game, you would have seen a Miami that looked more like Barcelona (in comparison to Atlanta) than Miami prior. The possession percentage was ridiculous (like 70% or something).
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AggieShanks
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In reply to carl spacklers hat • 9:55a, 7/26/23
AG
I think it's a confidence thing. I've seen it happen in multiple international sports. I think we have the talent to compete, but for some reason, our players are awe struck at foreign competitors. The only person that looked like he belonged on the field with Messi and Busquets last night was Almada on Atlanta United
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carl spacklers hat
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In reply to jeffk • 10:03a, 7/26/23
Cruz Azul had three and even 4 guys on him at times last Friday, and Messi still held possession and completed his pass off the pressure. People throw around the term GOAT pretty often, not really knowing what they're saying. In Messi's case, a lot more people are getting to see what GOAT truly means. Jordan back in his prime, GOAT. Messi is the GOAT and its going to take the teams Miami is playing against a bit of time to get over the awe factor and just play the match.
People think I'm an idiot or something, because all I do is cut lawns for a living.
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AggieShanks
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In reply to carl spacklers hat • 10:07a, 7/26/23
AG
Even 1 on 1. His ball control was different than any player I've seen in MLS. MLS is a pass and run league. Messi just had so much control at all times.
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aTmAg
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10:38a, 7/26/23
AG
I read somewhere that the FIFA game developers couldn't figure out how to make Messi properly good in their game. That when they plug in his speed, his height, his dribbling, etc. and he was still just average. That to properly simulate him, they would have to give the gamer a larger IQ (or give him more frame rates than everybody else).

I'm not sure what they did to fix that.
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carl spacklers hat
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In reply to aTmAg • 10:43a, 7/26/23
Add to that his field vision, touch, shooting/scoring. Probably the only metric they could accurately ascribe to him is Defense.
People think I'm an idiot or something, because all I do is cut lawns for a living.
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texagbeliever
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In reply to aTmAg • 12:27p, 7/26/23
I thought when Messi was younger his agility and balance were off the charts good. What has made him the GOAT is that he never solely relied on those physical skills but mentally mastered the game and then physically had the talent to be phenomenal.
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texagbeliever
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In reply to AggieShanks • 12:29p, 7/26/23
AggieShanks said:
Even 1 on 1. His ball control was different than any player I've seen in MLS. MLS is a pass and run league. Messi just had so much control at all times.

I bet there is also a respect for Messi that no MLS player will want to be the guy that wrecklessly tackels him. For Ronaldo that wouldn't be the case.
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Rudyjax
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In reply to texagbeliever • 12:31p, 7/26/23
AG
texagbeliever said:
AggieShanks said:
Even 1 on 1. His ball control was different than any player I've seen in MLS. MLS is a pass and run league. Messi just had so much control at all times.

I bet there is also a respect for Messi that no MLS player will want to be the guy that wrecklessly tackels him. For Ronaldo that wouldn't be the case.
Kellen Acosta don't give an F.

sept 3rd they play each other.
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aTmAg
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In reply to texagbeliever • 1:22p, 7/26/23
AG
texagbeliever said:
I thought when Messi was younger his agility and balance were off the charts good. What has made him the GOAT is that he never solely relied on those physical skills but mentally mastered the game and then physically had the talent to be phenomenal.
My theory is that he has so much duty cycle available in his brain that he can think about stuff that nobody else can while dribbling the ball.

I read an anecdote from an Argentina teammate about when they were young. He said that they would take turns going 1v1 in practice. This guy was a defender, and the dribblers would always enter the box with a move in mind. Like maybe a step-over left, or an elastico right, etc. And when he would defend then, if they picked something he didn't expect, they would often win. If he saw it coming, he would win.

But Messi was never doing any fancy tricks. Nothing to throw the defender off on what direction we was wanting to go. Yet Messi won 100% of the time. At first he thought, "how can he guess right EVERY time?" Then it dawned on him, that Messi wasn't planning anything. He would go into the box waiting for the defender to chose. Then he would react and beat him based on whatever that was. The reason he wasn't doing fancy footwork is because he didn't need to make the defender think he was going a certain way. The defender made his move already.

He said this realization blew him away. Because it's not just a matter of "of he chooses left, I will go right" or vice-versa. But Messi would have to calculate, real-time, which combo of touches would beat whatever the hell the defender was doing. Even if that meant using the 3rd dimension and chipping the ball over his foot or something.
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aTmAg
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In reply to texagbeliever • 1:24p, 7/26/23
AG
texagbeliever said:
AggieShanks said:
Even 1 on 1. His ball control was different than any player I've seen in MLS. MLS is a pass and run league. Messi just had so much control at all times.

I bet there is also a respect for Messi that no MLS player will want to be the guy that wrecklessly tackels him. For Ronaldo that wouldn't be the case.
I think players who can dribble that well instill fear in defenders so they don't want to stab. So that alone makes wreckless tackles less likely.
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Rudyjax
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In reply to aTmAg • 1:26p, 7/26/23
AG
aTmAg said:
texagbeliever said:
AggieShanks said:
Even 1 on 1. His ball control was different than any player I've seen in MLS. MLS is a pass and run league. Messi just had so much control at all times.

I bet there is also a respect for Messi that no MLS player will want to be the guy that wrecklessly tackels him. For Ronaldo that wouldn't be the case.
I think players who can dribble that well instill fear in defenders so they don't want to stab. So that alone makes wreckless tackles less likely.


Yeah. If you stab you're going to get beat. If you don't, you'll probably get beat by Messi, so what do you do?
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AggieShanks
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In reply to Rudyjax • 1:33p, 7/26/23
AG
I hope the league works hard to develop our youth in the sport. I want a homegrown beast to come out of the MLS.
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Rudyjax
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In reply to AggieShanks • 1:41p, 7/26/23
AG
AggieShanks said:
I hope the league works hard to develop our youth in the sport. I want a homegrown beast to come out of the MLS.
Hopefully the success of some of our young players and the hupla around Messi will encourage more of our best athletes into the sport.

A semi appearance in 2026 will go a looooong way to helping the sport as making the knockout round in 1994 did.

A huge hurdle right now is the NBA equivalent is in England.


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wangus12
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In reply to jeffk • 2:20p, 7/26/23
AG
Not to mention clubs have been trying to mark Messi out of the game for nearly 20 years and it hasn't worked
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AggieShanks
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In reply to Rudyjax • 2:37p, 7/26/23
AG
Football is a barrier too. Kids like Evan Stewart choose football over soccer in the US everyday. I wish we could move the sport of soccer to the spring in the US instead of the fall. Then kids are more likely to split time between it and football because they are so attractive to those sports because of the footwork.
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Rudyjax
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In reply to AggieShanks • 2:52p, 7/26/23
AG
AggieShanks said:
Football is a barrier too. Kids like Evan Stewart choose football over soccer in the US everyday. I wish we could move the sport of soccer to the spring in the US instead of the fall. Then kids are more likely to split time between it and football because they are so attractive to those sports because of the footwork.
Oh I know, but NBA is played globally and made a better example.
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Jim01
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In reply to Rudyjax • 3:01p, 7/26/23
AG
Also it's not just that the NBA/NFL/MLB is in England but to use MLB it's like AAA, AA, and A are all also in Europe. MLS isn't even a top 5 league, so no American's play in it unless they just don't have a better option (there are exceptions of course).
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Who?mikejones!
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3:09p, 7/26/23
Tin foil hat...

I'm neither doctor nor scientist. I heard a radio lab, I think, story or read article a while back talking about how humans "live" in the past because it takes time for the brain to process images so we all relatively live a few seconds behind what's actually happening. I think that was the gist of the story anyway.

My tinfoil hat theory is Messi's brain can process a little faster than everyone around him and he effectively sees the future.
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aTmAg
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In reply to Rudyjax • 3:37p, 7/26/23
AG
Rudyjax said:
aTmAg said:
texagbeliever said:
AggieShanks said:
Even 1 on 1. His ball control was different than any player I've seen in MLS. MLS is a pass and run league. Messi just had so much control at all times.

I bet there is also a respect for Messi that no MLS player will want to be the guy that wrecklessly tackels him. For Ronaldo that wouldn't be the case.
I think players who can dribble that well instill fear in defenders so they don't want to stab. So that alone makes wreckless tackles less likely.


Yeah. If you stab you're going to get beat. If you don't, you'll probably get beat by Messi, so what do you do?
retire?
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Rudyjax
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In reply to Jim01 • 4:02p, 7/26/23
AG
Jim01 said:
Also it's not just that the NBA/NFL/MLB is in England but to use MLB it's like AAA, AA, and A are all also in Europe. MLS isn't even a top 5 league, so no American's play in it unless they just don't have a better option (there are exceptions of course).


The point is you have to leave the country to reach the pinnacle and that's handicapping the sport. But if the MLS were to become a top 5 leauge, then it wouldn't handicap us. Capice?
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La Bamba
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6:15p, 7/31/23
AG
Messi in the MLS -

Turning the likes of Robert Taylor into Robert Lewandoski.
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Texaggie7nine
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8:55a, 8/1/23
7nine
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Furlock Bones
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In reply to Texaggie7nine • 8:56a, 8/1/23
AG
my brother just sent me this. pain. pain. pain.
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AggieShanks
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In reply to Furlock Bones • 9:35a, 8/1/23
AG
Everyone starts somewhere. Lol
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TheTexian
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10:38a, 8/1/23
AG
Interesting to see how Messi to Miami compares to Zlatan to LA Galaxy.

On the field it seems similar but off the field Messi is much, much bigger.
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PatAg
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10:40a, 8/1/23
AG
The first goal for MLS was to protect itself from going bankrup inside of 5-10 years like every other soccer league has done in the past. It succeeded
The next goal was for teams to start committing resources to youth development and acadamies. Partial success, some teams have had GREAT success and other teams dont even try

This step then allows our young players to have legitimate training before they are all old enough to move to Europe. There is nothing wrong in working your way into a top 10-15 league in the world, and still be a league that sells to the top 5. We've seen that in action, we're sending more players than ever before AND they are having success at relatively young ages.

Do we NEED to try to progress to a top 5 league, and is that even realistic without being part of the Champions League? Debatable, i think we can still keep increasing the level of the play of MLS, but I personally like the idea of our 16-18 year old american players getting real professional experience at early ages. Which is what we currently get.

Also so far Messi has only played one MLS team, in a non-league match, and it was probably the team that is most disorganized on defense in the league.
Messi is still very likely to do what he wants when he wants to the rest of the season, and I'm looking forward to watching it. It was just funny to see national media try to discredit the quality of the MLS after Messi came in and scored, and they were playing Cruz Azul
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TheTexian
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In reply to PatAg • 10:42a, 8/1/23
AG
Everyone is thinking Champions League like that's a realistic possibility.

MLS needs to either make the CONCACAF Champions Cup worth winning, or try to weasel their way into Copa Libertadores
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AggieShanks
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In reply to TheTexian • 10:55a, 8/1/23
AG
MLS is fine where we are. We just need to win our leagues more consistently before we try and be somewhere else. I think leagues only get better from keeping their young talent. Sending them to Europe doesn't help our league at all.
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Rudyjax
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In reply to PatAg • 10:18p, 8/1/23
AG
I think we do need to advance to a top 5 league so that playing professional soccer means you're rich.

That's how the game will compete for more of our top athletes.

But without champions league, you're right it'll be tough.

Not young players want to go to Europe.
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