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Current students who work on "Off Campus student bonfire" do achieve many of the same things that those of us who worked on Aggie Bonfire did. However, "Off Campus sudent bonfire" will never be Aggie Bonfire and the two are different.

I will respect your right to work, build and burn the "Off-Campus student bonfire" but please respect my right to not acknowledge your project as equivalent or even a replacement for Aggie Bonfire.

If you believe that the feelings, emotions, and end results of your bonfire are the same as those who built and bleed and sacrificed for Aggie Bonfire, then perhaps you don't truely understand Bonfire.

If however, you acknowledge that the old tradition of Aggie Bonfire is not available to you and that you wish to fill the void with something similiar, then I'm sure you DO UNDERSTAND.

Getting up every non football week-end and loading flatbed trucks in the cold and dark to be transported for cutting.... working on stack behind Duncan 24 hours a day.... and then hearing the band play as it burned........ listening to the coach...... seeing the football team gathered..... having the yell leaders lead thousands upon tens of thousands who gathered is a gift that I wish my son and daughters could have ....... but it isn't - at least not at present. That doesn't mean that different memories are not just as precious ...... but they are different.

I am so happy that I at least had the opportunity to have children experience Aggie Bonfire with me........ and that they were old enough to experience the horrific and healing experiences that accompanied the end of Aggie Bonfire.

In my heart I believe that the "Off-Campus student bonfire" - as well meaning as it is - will be the major obstacle to bringing back Aggie Bonfire that unites the Aggie community again. Because for all the good that the "Off Campus student bonfire" does, the one thing it does NOT DO....... and more than likely can never do........ is unify AGGIES.

There are too many, young and old, Ol' Army and new, that see the current bonfire as simply "a burning of sticks" and something that our hearts will not allow us to support because, for us, it is not Aggie Bonfire and Aggie Bonfire still burns in our souls forever!


Again, I'll respect your right to enjoy your bonfire...... and I'll ackowledge that some may understand the differences between a bonfire and Aggie Bonfire...... but I ask that you respect our memories as well....... and not try to automatically claim them. If you don't understand what we felt for Aggie Bonfire that in no way demeans you....... it simply means that you didn't experience it. AND, even though you didn't experience it or understand AGGIE BONFIRE the way we did, doesn't mean that WE believe that the loss of the AGGIE BONFIRE is in any way less painful to you than it is to us.........

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First, yes, you will respect our right to BUILD HELL OUT OF BONFIRE. Second, I wish I could show you the blood that flowed from my right arm and the long scar that I will have the rest of my life that resulted from PUSH WEEK fall of '04. Getting up at 5AM EVEN ON FOOTBALL WEEKENDS because we had loading to do before the game was tough but WE SACRIFICED. No, I do not believe that the tradition of AGGIE BONFIRE is "unavailable" to us as you do. There is NO VOID. Yes, the Burn Day experience is different. We do not build it for Burn Day. If you think Burn was the most relevent part of this discussion, YOU do not understand Bonfire. Lastly, if you believe that Aggie Student Bonfire does not unify old and young Aggies you have truely been missing out.

Oh, and what have YOU been doing to facilitate the continuing existance of the Aggie Bonfire tradition?

I am waiting.

agree with rebbasser.....at least it is something........

If anything, Burn has become more of what it was always claimed to be...

it is Student Bonfire's main source of income, but now it's not planned to have long speeches, or a marching band, or even official yell leaders...the night is about showing the world the "Burning Desire" and clearing the field for the next year...I don't know how much more "ol' army" it could be. How much of a parade was Burn in 1902-1909?

Not very many people come out to Build the Hell anymore just because "there's nothing else to do"...now, everyone there wants to be there.

I've seen the sunset and then rise from a 4th stack swing. I've sat and watched stars fall out of the sky from 3rd stack (I'll bet any of you never got to see that ). You can't quite see campus from stack anymore, but I'll trade brick and concrete for trees & wildlife anyday. The walk from campus to cut/stack might not be so much of a walk as it is a drive now, but you can cram quite a few buddies into a pickup...the only difference is the lack of exercise.
The competitive spirit is still there, and so is the unity when something out of the ordinary happens. The dorm/outfit rivalries are building back up...although, they might be quite a bit different from what happened in 1993, but how similar was that to 1986 or 1974?

Student Bonfire has one thing that must always be kept in mind, that was unfortunatly often overlooked before 2000...safety. There are lines that must be set and rules that cannot be bent in order to make sure that every redass Aggie that comes out to build the hell gets back to town...While some of these rules have changed the Bonfire experience slightly, they have no doubt improved it as well.

Fightin' Texas Aggie Ag Engineer 2005
Brownpot 2006

www.texags.com/main/forum.reply.asp?topic_id=774292&forum_id=14&page=&opt=post

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Agreed, but what if A&M banned football from campus and Students decide to go play an intramural game down in Navasota.

ABout 10 thousand people show up. There are no yell leaders, no band, no marchin in.... Who would be arguing its the same? I think that is all these posters are trying to say. Sure, they will be doing a great thing, having fun and building a new tradition that looks a lot like the old one, but it shouldn't surprise anybody when people say it is not the same.

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I will say that my impression of your comment was that you meant that AGGIE Football was gone and not just ALL FOOTBALL was gone from campus, if this were the statement I feel that is would be a more appropriate analogy:

Kyle Field has been condemned and is being remodeled for quite some time (And if it is anything like Ross Street WHO KNOWS when it will get done) and the season is approaching. Well the first few games pass and no games are played to all Aggies' dismay. Well the next week the Leadership Council says, "There are Aggies who miss Fightin' Texas Aggie Football and we should do something about it," and they decide to get together and orchestrate playing their games in the mean time at A&M Consolidated's stadium. Sadly, the stadium is smaller so not as many Aggies can attend and the pageantry dynamic changes. Plus, the coaches continue to work on getting Kyle back open so they can't make the games, so the leadership council gets together consults with former players on how best to coach the team themselves. (Some of the Old Players actually stay and help in day to day operations.) Also the council decides it is best to change the offensive scheme. Despite all this, the players don't change and the uniforms stay the same. In a few weeks they decide to move the game to Bryan High School's field. Despite their efforts there are Aggies out there who feel that if it is not on-campus it isn't Aggie Football, plus there are those who feel that since the football team lines up differently on offensive, it just isn't the same as it used to be... doesn't look the same to them.

Let me say this cause you might be thinking it... this whole analogy is preposterous. Why would the team do such a thing?... move the games?... play without their coaches?.... change the offensive scheme? Well, I would say probably for the exact reason they stated, because out there are some Aggies who want/need Aggie Football and it was the best way they could get it to them. They do it for those who love Aggie Football and/or those who appreciate their hardwork and sacrifices even if 100% of the Aggies don't go or support their decision completely. They do it for their fellow teammates, especially the freshmen. They also do it so maybe when "Kyle Re-Opens" they can do the best job possible as the Aggie Community unites again. This situation is completely preposterous, I would have never expected... nay BELIEVED that such events could have taken place. But I feel that is exactly what Student Bonfire has done and is why I completely support them and am forever indebted to them and all their sacrifices.

(And yes, it is the Aggie Football team, and not replacements, because despite the 7 years and all the events in between, whether it was on campus or off-campus Bonfire was always student led and student built... the quality and character of work staff was the independent variable.)



btw, forget the analogy for a second... all this writing made me think... whether Bonfire returns to campus or not, Ross Street will NEVER get repaired... just wanted to add that.

burn night, the design, and the location have changed...but since when have these things been the critical parts of Bonfire? it is different, it has changed. but in so many ways it is the same


aggiebird is nothing more than a dou.chebag let him squawk all he wants

Fellas,

You aren't going to get me saying off campus Bonfire is a bad thing. In fact, I think it is great.

All my posts have only been to say that it should not surprise you that Ol Ags are saying it is not the same because it isn't.

i don't think that any of us are gonna say that we are surprised that ol ags are sayin that...and i believe they will continue until they visit us out at bonfire.

i can not begin to count the number of ol ags that told me how skeptical they were until someone convinced them to come out one time

that is all i ask to those of you that say these things...give them a chance, go out one time and see what is goin on out there before you demean their efforts(not talkin to you Federale)

How many times...in Texas Aggie history...has stack site been cleared by cut?

I absolutely agree that it is NOT THE SAME.

Why is it not the same? Because the paper pushers haven't given their offocial stamp of approval. Because it isn't on tv. Because all the sheep that are too damn afraid to go against the grain aren't in attendance. Because it isn't the "popular" thing to do. Becuase some people would rather whine about things than get off thir ass & do something about it......etc etc

Build it for yourselves. Don't let people tell you what it means to YOU. Continue to be LEADERS instead of sheep. Don't listen to some pansy ass '02 ct sitting on his couch telling you how about 'ol army. Guys like him make me sick. If 'ol army means ANYTHING ....its about f' the bs & get the job done....ie doing the impossible. You think Bonfire in '98 was 'ol army? The pots were simply doing what people before them had showed them how to do & then asking the university to write the checks.

...so...prior to 99 to participate in Bonfire was to tow the line and follow the rest of the sheep? Don't get so damn defensive, geez...why the hell can't people just have their opinions?

Gig'em current students working on Bonfire. Keep the spirit alive! Forget the bs from people sitting on a high horse because they were lucky enough to experience university sanctioned Bonfire.

Off-campus Bonfire is the key to not letting the tradition die and to hopefully bring it back to campus where it should be. If the tradition dies, no way it comes back to campus.

[This message has been edited by Aston04 (edited 12/17/2006 10:48p).]

This thread talks in circles a lot but lemme just say. I suppose I'm Ol' Army but I wanna give a real shout-out to those who currently build bonfire. From the bottom of my heart I salute, honor and thank you for carrying the tradition forward in the wake of unspeakable tragedy that none of us can ever fix.

It takes a LOT more effort to make that fire happen now - because it's not just a walk out to Duncan or the polo fields. There is a unique honor in Aggies, so-called "New Army" standing up and reclaiming what most of us who built it before 1999 took for granted year in and year out.

Here's what I feel. If it's different, so be it. But for any of us to presume our bonfire experience was the more honorable desecrates the whole tradition for all of us. And there is no glory in the memories of Ol Aggie bonfire without the continued spirit and incredible honor in the work of the new off-campus fire.

It is bonfire. It is not subject to opinion. It burns for all Aggies or it burns for none. It was that way pre-1999 and will be that way for the rest of its days. To ANY Ag who has, does or will work on Aggie bonfire, you ARE everything it represents. To those who would differentiate for reasons of superiority, I only suggest to step back and take a hard look at what you're doing.

NEVER use bonfire against another Aggie! ANY bonfire!

Thumbs up, Decade Plan.

Is there anything you CAN'T do?

aggiebird02

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new army does like to talk about Bonfire, but how many of them go to and support even the current modified off campus bonfire?

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AggieStudent

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Why is it not the same? it isn't the "popular" thing to do. Becuase some people would rather whine about things than get off thir ass & do something about it

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aggiebird02

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if you like what y'all are doing then keep doing it. I see it as new army doing the best they can in the current situation.

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AggieStudent

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Build it for yourselves. Don't let people tell you what it means to YOU.

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Hmmm... Sounds like you're saying the same thing I am. With the exception of you calling the former Brown/Red Pots sheep, and I in fact think of them as the leaders they were.

And the fact that I support the current modified off campus bonfire,

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I support the modified off campus bonfire just to clear things up, but remember, it's not the same.

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while you seem be trying to trivialize the Ol' Army Bonfire.

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You think Bonfire in '98 was 'ol army? The pots were simply doing what people before them had showed them how to do & then asking the university to write the checks.

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WaltonLoads08 said

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Oh, and what have YOU been doing to facilitate the continuing existance of the Aggie Bonfire tradition?

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I'm...........

Remembering the 12 Aggies that lost their lives that night.

Remembering the businesses that closed their doors that day to bring food and supplies to the site.

Remembering the Old Ags driving to CS from around the nation to help out.

Remembering the football team pulling logs of stack.

Remembering standing around the site with my best friends hearing Amazing Grace being played on the bag pipes.

Remembering Midnight Yell before the tu game.

Remembering the emotion on the field.

But most importantly......

Never losing touch with all the friends I made during my time at A&M and, never hesitating to say hi to an Aggie I've never met. Bonfire wasn't just about our burning desire to beat tu.... it was about keeping the Aggie Family United. I know you understand that, or you wouldn't be so passionate about keeping it alive. I may not necessarily promote the existance of another bonfire, but I will promote its memory and everything it stood for. Please dont take that negatively, it was a hard time to go through for all of us, and I wouldn't want another Aggie (or their parents) to go through that again.

I respect your Aggie Spirit, dont forget to pass it on to everyone you meet. I just hope you are involved in something other than SB... and seeing how passionate you are about continuing the Aggie Spirit and Traditions, I would imagine you are.

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never hesitating to say "Howdy" to an Aggie I've never met.

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FIFY

aggiebird,

PUT DOWN THE shovel. You're digging your hole deeper and deeper.

You are either with us or against us and you sound like the latter of those two.

Even though I am removed from Bonfire several moons or eons (depending on point of reference), I support those involved today with the same fervor as Bonfire's past just in different ways.

I agree with other posters...you are a dooshe.

Rebuilt it in '94
Built in '95-'95- Swan song on the Southwest Conference.

Those were great time- and I miss them.

I'm very thankful to have come for Bonfire '98- the end of an era.

Gig 'em.
TTT

I fully understand that Old Ags have their opinions about Bonfire in its present form, and I respect the hell out of their opinions. The only thing that I ask them is that they go out to cut, go out to stack, and go out to burn and see just how passionate the students, and some older Ags, are about it. It might just change your perception, if only very slightly.

Its not that some Old Ags are against the off-campus Bonfire, they have every right to have that opinion. What bothers me is when someone tells me that I can't even begin to understand how great their memories were and how mine can never stack up to theirs. Go work with those involved and then you might atleast respect what they are doing. Until you do that, don't cast judgements.

Aggieroses is wrong. Way wrong.

Bonfire, off campus, on campus, whatever, belongs to Aggies, not an A&M administration that is afraid of lawyers.

If Aggies build Bonfire anywhere, it counts.

I applaud every single Aggie who worked HARD to put up one Heck of a beautiful Bonfire on Nov. 21. I was there. I loved it. It was Bonfire.

Thanks TexasRebel... inexcusable.

BTW... Howdy.

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I was there. I loved it. It was Bonfire.

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Ditto.

-------------------------------------------------------
If you can read this, thank a teacher.
If you can read this in English, thank a Soldier.

I worked on my first bonfire in 1965. And on my last one in 1969. Two of those years were in the Corps and two years non-reg. All of them have meaning to me. And to those people that with me build some mighty fine Bonfires.

And kudos to any Aggie who insist on keeping Bonfire. On campus, off campus, it was never about the administration, it was allways about Aggies. Cut, Load, Stack, Burn. Watching your hard work making the impossible possible.

I still think at some future time, they need to have an official Bonfire site built with a permanent built in concreat base, and deep sunk center poles, with an approved plan that uses cables instead of bailing wire, and logs instead of smaller, less stable branches. It should be designed to assist in building a safe bonfire.

But, Bonfire should continue as long as A & M does, because it is the glue that holds Aggies together. Sure, we could survive with out it, but, why? No one told me that working on Bonfire was going to be easy, safe, and painless. But you can get killed sitting in your home with some drunk driver crashing thru your living room wall.

It is more important that we get our values right as Aggies, and keep looking to educate young people that will continue to make our school, state, nation and world better.

That is what being an Aggie, a Bonfire loving Aggie is all about.

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If you believe that the feelings, emotions, and end results of your bonfire are the same as those who built and bleed and sacrificed for Aggie Bonfire, then perhaps you don't truely understand Bonfire.

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I've built both, and I consider the off-campus project Aggie Bonfire.

Do you mean to tell me that I don't truly understand Bonfire?

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In my heart I believe that the "Off-Campus student bonfire" - as well meaning as it is - will be the major obstacle to bringing back Aggie Bonfire that unites the Aggie community again. Because for all the good that the "Off Campus student bonfire" does, the one thing it does NOT DO....... and more than likely can never do........ is unify AGGIES.

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Newsflash:

Bonfire ANYWHERE will NEVER unify Aggies.


[This message has been edited by Keegan99 (edited 12/18/2006 12:31p).]

AggieRoses -

One question:

Have you ever been to Student Bonfire Cut(s), Stack(s), and Burn(s)?

Somehow, I suspect that the answer is "no".

I've never worked on bonfire and have yet to make it out to an OC bonfire, but it seems to me that the students that are building and burning OC bonfire are doing much more than any of you to bring it back to campus.

You may belittle their efforts, and refuse to acknowledge what off campus bonfire symbolizes. But the fact of the matter is, that student Bonfire probably means much more to those that work on it than Bonfire did to those that had the priviledge of building it on campus. See you never had to know all the stories, and try to understand what this experience known as Bonfire was without the possibility of not able to participate in it for yourself. You thought it was a given that there would be a Bonfire. Couldn't imagine a year without it. You had support.

Those students running off campus bonfire don't have that luxury. They have no support. They have no home. They have to fight for their Bonfire. Bonfire never before had the threat of not burning from county authorities. Bonfire never before was without a home. Off campus Bonfire has alot that gets put into it, and what does it get in return?

People like you who come on here and tell them that something they believe in isn't real. And that they will never know what it is like, and that no matter how hard they work, no matter how much sweat and blood they put into it that what they build will never be Bonfire.

What would you have done if those who originally made Bonfire by piling up old furniture told all you who went to cut and used cranes to position tree tunks that it wasn't really bonfire? That what you were doing wasn't the same? That sure it had meaning but not as much? Would you be pissed?

Things change some people refuse to let the past become just a memory and fight to keep that memory alive. Thats what off campus bonfire is doing. Others are content to wear Bonfire memorabelia and post on message boards about for or against Bonfire coming back to campus.

Is off campus Bonfire the same? No, but they do form the same relations, create the same memories, have the same spirit that the rest of you had when you worked on Bonfire, and at least they are working towards the goal of having a true campus backed Bonfire.

The sad thing is, even if they succeed and get Bonfire brought back to campus some of you won't acknowledge their efforts, while others will spew the same old, "that New Army bonfire, it's not the same" BS.

Bring it back and bring it back safely. Sounds too simple to be true so administration hasn't been won over.

My favorite scene from the movie Patton was when he went to a meeting of Generals to devise a plan to help the 36th infantry that was about to be wiped out. Each General gave excuses why they could not immediatly help then Patton speaks up and says he will attack with the 3rd army in 48 hours. Everyone looked at him like he was crazy but he did it.

We need that kind of leadership to bring back the bonfire. Damn the lawyers, Damn the naysayers and let Aggies build the project safely like they did for years before this tradgedy.

The greatest and most enduring tradition of Texas A&M is the right of all graduates to immediately declare that they were the last real Aggie class, and everything that came after they graduated destroyed Aggieland. Before my Sophomore bonfire in 1966, a group of old Ags from the '40s accused us of turning A&M in Tech (a terrible insult even back then,) because the Corps was eating in Duncan, the fancy new mess hall, instead of Sbisa.

My daughter is Class of '02. She's a sweet kid and actually waited until 2004 before she declared loudly that A&M had gone to hell since she graduated and would never be the same.

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I've never worked on bonfire and have yet to make it out to an OC bonfire

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And yet, eight paragraphs of lecture on the subject? Really?

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greatest and most enduring tradition of Texas A&M is the right of all graduates to immediately declare that they were the last real Aggie class

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one of the most true statements i've ever read. according to my grandfather class of ('52?), the class of '55 killed "Old Army"

so take your class, add 2 or 3 years, and that is the year old army will die for you. For me, i think it was '10, just because it makes me say "oh-ten" from habit. damn freshman!

This thread makes me giggle.

One of the things that my older buddies and I would talk about would be how what we thought of as Aggie Bonfire was different from what they thought of as Aggie Bonfire. Even a couple of years was a major difference, and every year thought that their Bonfire was the "real" Bonfire. I've helped build three Ol Army Bonfires, and been out to cut for Student Bonfire. Those kids (and yes, they're 10 years younger than me, so I can call them kids) are having as much fun swinging axes and yelling "headache" and groding each other, and whatever the hell else they do, as we did 10 years ago. There's some things that are missing that I truly miss (where were the water wenches? and no orange drink? WTF?), but there were crews out there f'ing logs that did it better than most Corps outfits back in Ol' Army days.

What I'm trying to say is, Bonfire is what it is to whoever is participating in it. I'm sure that Student Bonfire would feel more like Aggie Bonfire (I'm only using the terms to distinguish the two, and also because you legally can't use the term "Aggie Bonfire" to refer to Student Bonfire, from what I understand) if more deads from pre-99 would come out and participate. These kids want to hear about the old days, and they get excited (and a little scared) when the old men (and women) come into the woods and show them how we used to do it.

The fact of the matter is, Bonfire is about getting together, getting grody, and building one big mofo fire. The friends that you make along the way are the most important part.

Now, let's all buy each other a Coke and live in harmony.

[This message has been edited by Bunterman (edited 1/4/2007 5:14p).]

No one class of '04 and younger got to build an on-campus Bonfire. That isn't any fault of their own. Do not blame "new army" that they can only talk about on-campus Bonfire. Besides, there have been a lot of "new army" who have put tons of work into the off-campus Bonfire.