You never saw any of that smack from me concerning Benson vs Farmer.

My take was this, if Benson could keep his head on and focus on his business he would be hands down better than Farmer. As far as character and work ethic Farmer was way head, early, never in talent.

"only one thing is important!"

Not worth opening character debates on Benson--this thread is long enough.

However, OPAG's opinion was definitely not shared by a large majority of you Aggies on this site.

All I heard in 2001 and 2002 was how much better Farmer was and after 2003 many were saying Lewis was better.

OPAG: THanks for your honesty. Too bad I did not save some of those threads from your brethern.

Objective,

Well I would not say that I agree with iba on the "pure pocket passer" with speed. Reggie does indeed have incredible escapability and can sit back in the pocket all day long... but Dustin Long can also sit in the pocket all day long. Once that pocket breaks down, that is where the "rabbit" in Reggie comes out. Along with escapability.... just flat out quickness gets him down the field.
http://www.aggieunleashed.com/football/2004/reggiemcnealshow.htm

OK, I think what I am saying is I did not see that escapability at all on T+1. Did not see much of it in Utah game (other than great run in second quarter) etc. etc.

Objective - if you ever read my posts on VY on these boards - you would be suprised. If you notice in my post I stated VY may be the best QB in the nation. I think a complement to that degree allows me to have an opinion that is not what you consider "typical Aggie". My opinon on VY as steted above is my true opinion.

As for Ced - I have stated before that Ced is one of the best backs I have ever seen play. I dont think I have ever seen a back do more damage after initial contact. He is a beast and very deserving to go where he went.

I think VY is a freak of nature and will likely be a very high draft pick in my opinion that will play receiver - and be very successful.

Now - IF he improves his passing, then maybe as a QB - but I personally dont think it will happen.

As compared to Reggie. If you think VY would have fared as well in the air under the pressure Reggie had then I think you are the one not being objective. Many of VYs passes would be picked if he played for another team because the coverage was tighter. Our OL gave up pressure without the other team selling out to the rush. Everyone loaded up vs. Texas and this allows VY to throw floaters all day long. The passes are toast against normal coverage schemes. (meaning schemes not designed to stop Ced and VY). That is my objective opinion.



[This message has been edited by WhiskeyBent (edited 4/28/2005 3:14p).]

As has been posted in many other places, we need to realize that the NFL prizes different characteristics than what is valued on the college playing field. VY obviously has better size and durability than Reggie. They probably have very similar speed. The pundits assume VY can better develop his passing skills and he has two years to do it. Even if he doesn't, his size and speed will still be considered very attractive. NFL teams also believe that they can develop QB's mechanics and skills (e.g., Aaron Rodgers' poor mechanics, but still taken in first round, same for Kerry Collins when he was drafted).

Reggie is fast but lacks moves/vision as a runner. He is good on designed runs to the edge or when he can take off in a straight line, but he has limited scrambling ability.

So then why couldn't one state that Reggie could work out and get bigger? Reggie has a better shot at being an NFL QB, Vince will be a recevier.

Objective,

Yeah, that Utah team really ended sucking arse... :|

What were VY's numbers going into the 4th when he played TAMU? Reggie did about as well as he could have against what I thought was the best defense we faced last year (along with that crappy Utah defense).

Weston Check the video clips listed above in txag2k, post and then come back and talk about Reg's lack of elusiveness.

The only Reg lacks is a great OL and is great power back.

Hopefully, we will get one of those if not both this year.

If we do Reg will go as a QB very high. He may go anyway.

Again, Reg was the A&M offense. You keep saying that your wideouts are bad.

How do you know that, they have never been part of the offensive package the last two years. They are the fourth wheel on three wheeled vehicle. Benson, Young then TE was the vehicle.

You really are Ketch breath aren't ya!?

"only one thing is important!"

Over the course of last season, Reggie's scrambling ability seemed to decrease. Oftentimes it looked like he would crouch down when he thought he was going to get hit rather than taking off running. This appears to speak to the fact that he was dinged up and that he is less durable than VY. VY took some nice hits and never seemed to feel the effects that Reggie did.

Disagree, I saw Young take one real nice hit, against Mizzou and was out the rest of the game with a bruised sternum (ego?)

Reg was more than dinged up. He took an open shot from Cody on the throwing shoulder that had off season surgery. Reg played in pain the rest of the year. It also decreased his practice time.

David Carr is a pretty tough nut. Two years ago he took a similar type of hit from James Posey and was out for three weeks with a badly bruised shoulder. Nobody was calling him weak or afraid. McNeals shot from Cody was similar, and on a shoulder that had just had surgery. McNeal is plenty tough. The only question will be, is he injury prone. I don't think so but next year could answer all those questions.

I don't know how much you can over estimate the fact that Reg was very limited in his offseason work outs by the shoulder surgery. He couldn't throw until June. Upper body weight work was severly curtailed as well.

This year he gets a full offseason to hit the weights build up upbody strenght and add some size. This fact along with just the natural male growth factors will bring him into the year at around 215 I predict.

Furthremore, he will get to throw in the voluntary 7 on 7's this year from day one and instead of working on arm strength can work on touch passes, timing routes, etc. Reg is a hard worker. He will enter the year in the best shape of his career.

The other thing that hurt Reg's production was that by end of the year defenses had plenty of tape to scheme the Ag offense. It was apparent to any HS DC that the way to shut down A&M's offense was to rush with various blitzes and stunts that the young and in experienced Ag OL would have hard time picking up consistently.

Most sacks and pressures on Reg came from free running DE's LB's and DB's that were just plain missed or whiffed on. Furthermore defenses just ignored the running game and teed off. Especially as it became apprent the Ags couldn't or wouldn't run the ball. Simply the defensive plan against A&M was, "Contain McNeal, hit McNeal. There is nothing else to worry about!" Funny VY may be in the same situation this year. His OL may be better but with out Benson to be the focal point and with no depth behind him, I would enter a game against tu this year with same mantra "Contain Young, hit Young and take your chances everywhere else!"

I don't care who you are if you have a free running defensive player coming at you 10 times a game you are going to take some really solid hits and you are going to get itchy feet. Not because you are scared so much as that you know you have to be ready to move to have a chance to make a play. Add an injured shoulder and you are going to protect yourself. NFL QB's slide when they run. They are not called afraid. They are told to. Reg is not afraid of contact, He is being coached to protect himself more, and rightfully so.

This is no brainer stuff really it is. As a HS football coach I can break these things down easliy and so can a D=1 coach or anyone who looks beyond their own bias and media hype.

"only one thing is important!"

OPAG -

Agree on most of your points. However, I saw VY take many hits over the course of the season and he seemed to recover fine in most cases. Reggie often looked to avoid potential hits when he could have escaped (if he had been playing with more abandon). I am NOT disrespecting the guy at all. However, this did limit his production in his scrambling.

Definitely agree on your point regarding whether he is injury prone. Every year it seems like he gets knocked out of at least one game.

I hope to see him at 100% this year where we can see what he can really do. I don't think we've seen the best of him yet.

VY will not play QB in the NFL, ever. Reggie will, but his ability to bulk a bit more will determine his longevity.

If Vince isn't going to play QB in the NFL then why did Kiper just say on SC that Vince is the best JR QB prospect in the nation, ahead of even Chris Leak.

Kiper is a tool. Not that VY sucks, but Kiper is a tool.

All I know is that if Kiper is saying it, then thats what GMs are saying.. because thats where he starts his rankings.

Why.?

1. Sips love media hype, they really feel that guys like Kiper and Ketch are the end all.

2. GMs see the overall value of a guy like Vy, He passes the eyeball test is extremely athletic and has game. He would surely be a trending pick at this time.

3. GMs play games with each other. They are not really into serious evaluation, yet. They will turn their attention to that next spring and the combines and pro day work outs will really start showing the whole deal.

I can guarantee you if tu falters and loses some games and VY doesn't handle being the focal point, he will fall like a rock. If he goes to the combines and they start asking him to make all kind of throws he has never been required to make and doesn't do them well. He falls like a rock AS A QB. If they give him a football IQ test and flash a formation in front of him take it away and ask him to make the rigth read in a multiple choice situation and he flunks it. He falls like a rock.

You see it's just a glamor show right now. VY is a glamor guy. When next spring walks around it becomes a cattle show, no more glamor. Sheer business evaluation.


VY is intriguing, thus the interest. They see his potential, maybe as a WR if he bust as a QB and thus base him high for now. But he is still in what I call the 'hundred yarder' stage. What I mean by that is he looks very good from a distance, but when you get close up some of those warts and pimples are going to be hard to hide. He is a risky pick as QB, regardless of what Kiper says. Kiper also picked Rogers over Smith. He never had Smith on his radar. Shoot, I called Smith a top five pick after his game with us and I was laughed at by Ags and sips. I was dead on.

I know talent trinity, I've got a good eye for things and know what to look for. VY may become a good NFL QB, but that is a high risk deal. McNeal, as a QB has a lot less question marks. Plus he has performed incredibly well being the focal point of an offense on a team that really is still transitioning and is very young that had no real running threat.

The only question on McNeal is durability. No one has questioned him any where else except Ketch breath no nothing Weston who questions Regs elusiveness. That is plain crazy. Anyway he grades out pretty well and in all areas he grades out off the charts in others. He is much more Vick like that VY and always will be. VY can't throw on the run, Reg has to throw on the run! That's Vick's strenght. Reg is about as fast as Vick too.

Give Reg a good OL and a strong RB and just see what he does.


"only one thing is important!"