Does anyone have any stats on the two linebackers. My T-sip brother in law kinda laughed when I mentioned Dat in the same league as DJ?

Butkus Award Winner and the starting linebacker of the Dallas Cowboys...I thought it was fair.

it's not...dj is the best lb prospect since Lavaar Arrington...Dat was good, but just fyi, he didn't win the butkus. He won the lombardi, which goes to best lb/lineman. Interesting that he won that but not the butkis...

Sorry horn, I'm going with Dat on this one. DJ may be the best prospect (as was Chris Claiborne of USC when he won the Butkus instead of Dat), but Dat was a better college LB'er. You said it...he won the Lombardi (which is regarded as the defensive equivalent of the Heisman, even though it can be awarded to an offensive player), the Bednarik winner, runner up for the Butkus. All time leader in tackles at A&M, led the team in tackles for 4 straight years, Big XII defensive player of the year.
Not taking anything away from DJ, but I'd take Dat anyday.

John 3:16

"Thirty years ago kids talked about their duties and responsibilities ... today they talk about their rights and privileges."

Dat beats any disc jockey I know.

Dat was 3-0 vs. Oklahoma. Even scored a TD against them in the 97 game.

I dont think Offensive planning specifically planned for Dat like the offensive planning that went on for DJ IMHO.

MadMax...I'd agree. Hey I live in as a maroon house as they come, but I'd take DJ if I had to choose one to start my team. He changes the way offense prepare their game plan.

Dat had 147 tackles in 13 games his senior year. How does DJ compare to that?

And I believe he was the one who smacked Michael Bishop and caused the fumble which lead to A&M winning the Big 12! We did loose to Texas that year damnit.

Anybody that laughs at the debate is pretty stupid. You can't go wrong with either one. I think DJ was more disruptive but Dat was a better leader, somebody other guys could feed off

No offense to Dat particularly since I grew up in South Texas but DJ is/was the better LB. And that's not even taking into account his NFL prospects. Raw tackle numbers don't tell the whole store. I suppose you're gonna say that Appel was a much better safety than Roy Williams based on his tackle numbers. Dat had DJ when it came to tackling fundamentals but that was it and DJ more than made up for that with his instincts and athleticism.

Hookem

you cant say DJ is a better LB now, as Dat is a starter and leading tackler on an NFL team. for all we know, DJ could end up a bust at the next level

While you guys keep this mine is better than yours, Mike Singletary was better than the both and Dick Butkus was the protype. Now if the sips had want to brought up Tommy Nobis then you might have a leg to stand on. DJ has not proved himself in the pros yet. Dat has played in a defense in Dallas with about as much success as one could expect.

[This message has been edited by 74Ag (edited 1/6/2005 12:13a).]

DJ won the bednarik (which is given to the best defensive player) i don't think dat won that. And also, DJ set an NCAA record with most fumbles forced in a season. Holds the texas record for most tackles in the lost. Finished as a finalist for every defensive award he could. Was the only defensive player in the final top 10 of the maxwell award. Recieved the highest amount of votes for heisman of any defensive player in the nation. His senior season, he finished with 74 solo tackles, 130 total (in 12 games), 19 TFL, 2 sacks, 9 FF, 1 Int, 8 Def breakups, 10 QBH, 1 blocked kick. Who cares if he was 0-4 against OU and dat was 3-0...he was 4-0 against A&M which is better than Dat was against texas...that has no bearing...

I have heard people say that they think that DJ isn't big enough for the pros. Could go anywhere from the 4th pick to the 30th. He needs to look bulkier at the combine. People don't care about skill if you don't have the size it is why Dat went 4th round.

Personally I'd prefer to have 'em both on my team...c'mon Cowboys at pick 10. Pair those two with Roy Williams in the defensive backfield and we're doing some hitting.

As to a preference, they both have their strong points...since I'm an A&M guy, I'll take Dat, but I think its about a push.

Chase '05

Not big enough?? DJ is 6'4 at 240 lbs. Thats about as ideal a size coming out of college for a linebacker that you can get. Throw in that he runs a legitimate 4.4 in the 40 and will probably suprise people with his strength, and I have a hard time believe he doesn't have the right "dimensions" for the NFL.

Dat also won the Bednarik Trophy. Still, the situations are completely different. DJ is a better physical prospect, and played with a much more talented supporting cast. Dat relied more on instinct than he did on physical ability, much like Zach Thomas, who is almost exactly the same size as Dat.

When Dat was in college, Ohio State fans offered many of the same arguments for Andy Katzenmoyer over Dat that the Texas fans now offer in their comparison of DJ and Dat. Katzenmoyer is now out of football because the huge physical advantage he enjoyed in college did not mean as much in the NFL without the football smarts to go with it. No, doubt, DJ is a great player, but the comparisons to Dat are pointless. They are completely different types, who played on completely different teams. Why don't we just leave it at that?

The sole reason Dat was/is so successful at the college level and now at the pro level is because of his instinct/smarts. So anyone who says that DJ has much better instincts than Dat obviously has never watched Dat play. You don't become the all-time leading tackler in A&M's history and then go one to become the leading tackler on an NFL team as an undersized LB without having absolutely top-notch instincts.

Being able to tackle well doesn't mean anything if you're not in the right spot at the right time. It's a complete shame that Dat still has not been to a pro-bowl, oh wait nevermind no it's not because the pro-bowl is nothing more than a popularity contest, the best players in the league don't always go.

Dat's instincts and leadership are what made Dat stand out over the competition. I sometimes just watched Dat from the start of the play, because I figured that was where the play would end. Never could figure how he knew. You can argue pure athletic ability, but don't even try and argue instincts. You just sound foolish.

quote:

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And I believe he was the one who smacked Michael Bishop and caused the fumble which lead to A&M winning the Big 12! We did loose to Texas that year damnit

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Wrong. Warrick Holdman caused the fumble, and Cornelius Anthony fell on it.

I think that DJ might end up being a better NFL linebacker, if for nothing else, his size. But by looking at these numbers, it is hard to argue that Dat wasn't at least as good, if not better in college than DJ.

These are the numbers from their senior years.(The numbers from DJ are from the sip that posted them above. Dat's numbers are from Aggieathletics.com)


DJ

74 Solo Tackles
56 Asst. Tackles
130 Total Tackles
19 Tackles for Loss
2 Sacks
9 Forced Fumbles
1 Int
8 Pass Break Ups
10 QB Hurries
1 Kick Block
Bednarik Award
Rose Bowl Champs

Dat

102 Solo Tackles
45 Asst. Tackles
147 Total Tackles
20 Tackles for Loss
4 Sacks
4 Forced Fumbles
2 Int
2 Pass Break Ups
2 QB Hurries
0 Kick Blocks
Lombardi Award
Bednarik Award
Big XII Championship



[This message has been edited by tamu_2k (edited 1/6/2005 11:50a).]

[This message has been edited by tamu_2k (edited 1/6/2005 11:52a).]

They were both great players.

Dat is not a great NFL MLB.

DJ may become one. He certainly has the size. I wouldn't mind him lining up next to Dat on the Cowboys.

Dat was the leading tackler on the #1 defense in the NFL in 2003. DJ better hope he turns out that good. Andy Katzenmoyer was supposed to be as good as Dat too, and what has he done.

Tackle numbers can be misleading. I think Flugence at Tech had about 200 every year and he was an average player.

They might be mis-leading on an average college team, or even on a bad NFL team, but they are not mis-leading if you are the #1 defense team in the NFL.

"can be misleading"

true - but I belive in the case of both DJ and Dat they are not.

They both stepped in and kicked butt as freshman because they both just flat out have a nose for the football.

[This message has been edited by OlSarge92 (edited 1/6/2005 12:08p).]

Zach Thomas is a Pro Bowler annually.

#1 defense in 2003 is debatable. yes, they gave up less yards, but were they "the best"? I think most would agree that they were not. Statistically they were, but I don't think you'd get anyone to agree that they were a great defense like the Ravens, Tampa Bay, etc. at the time.

Dat got snubbed because fans eat up the hype around Urlacker. Brian is always hurt while Dat is always playing. Dat isn't flashy enough to get fan respect outside the metroplex. Dat is better inside DJ is a better outside guy. Neither one could do what the other does. Both ment the world to their respective teams and DJ's absence could really hurt the horns as Dats did the '99 Aggies. The horns are lucky in that Harris finally showed he could meet his potential with out him they could have a big time hang over season. My horn bro-in-law is more worried about replaceing Benson though.

AgDog
Hell Bent Canine
All or None
FIDO

Comparisons of DJ to Katzenmoyer are just plain stupid. Katzenmoyer was overrated by the time he was a sophomore and athletically he wasn't even in the same universe as DJ. Now as for a previous poster saying DJ was 6'4" 240 lbs with 4.4. speed apparently he's a high school coach who adds 2 inches and shaves 2-tenths off 40 times. I bet DJ clocks mid 4.5 at best and probably going to be listed at 6'2" 230lb.

Hookem

Why does any of this matter? Will it make you feel any better if Dat is deemed better?

quote:

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Why does any of this matter? Will it make you feel any better if Dat is deemed better?

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It's called a 'discussion'. People like to have these to talk about stuff. That's why they made these things on the internet called 'forums'.

naw, he's probably 6-3 but not 6-2..i dunnno, seeing him in person on a weekly basis, i would assume he's 6-3 at least...

my grandmother's 6'2, 240 lbs.