CU was flagged for disconcerting signals, as we attempted the field goal with 3 ticks left to tie the game. We completed the kick, but the officials ruled that because of the dead-ball foul, replay the down, thereby negating the good kick and forcing us to kick again, with half the distance yardage.

Is this correct? This doesn't seem fair. If CU had jumped offsides, wouldn't we have been able to decline the penalty and take the points. Why did we not have the option of declining and taking the play instead of replaying with the penalty distance. Doesn't seem fair that a defensive penalty could have jeopardized a score.

If CU jumps offsides its not a dead ball penalty, it just happened to be that we snapped the ball right as they were blowing the whistle.

Once the blow the whistle... the play is over, doesn't matter what happens. In this situation, it is as if there never was a play.

[This message has been edited by PedroJack07 (edited 10/23/2004 7:47p).]

yeah, but Disconcerting Signals is a "deadball foul" i.e. the kick never officially happened.

Offsides, so long as there isn't contact (I believe) ins't a deadball foul, so the play can count if you choose to decline the penalty.

First time I ever heard bout this penalty was at the VTech game in Blacksburg. They called it against us. Everyone in the stands looked at eachother and said "WTF is that?" :-p

DEAD BALL FOUL = whistle before the snap stops play. There never was a FG attempt.

The refs got so many things wrong in this one, you don't need to pick on them when they were right.

If thats the case, the NCAA should change the disconcerting signals penalty to a live ball foul, thereby giving the offense the option to decline.

A call like that could really help the defense, even though they are being penalized. What if the distance cuts the angle, and Pegram misses. A defensive penalty in essence saves the game.

I'm still asking WTF is Disconcerting Signals?

Even if it is dead ball, we can decline it so as not to affect the angle.

Disconcerting signals is the defense simulating the snap signal, i.e. Hut! Hut!

it when the Dline tries to yell hut or hike or go to make the center snap the ball prematurely or have the offensive line jump

My point is that this penalty should be something like lining up in the neutral zone. Throw the flag at the snap and let the play happen. If the O moves in spite of, good for them. If the play is a failure, penalty yardage.

I find this all very disconcerting..

quote:

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My point is that this penalty should be something like lining up in the neutral zone. Throw the flag at the snap and let the play happen. If the O moves in spite of, good for them. If the play is a failure, penalty yardage.

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It's a dead ball penalty because it happens before the snap... just like a false start. A defensive-minded person could argue that the false-start shouldn't be a dead-ball penalty... let the offense play but if the defense makes a great play they could decline it.

http://www.ncaa.org/library/rules/2004/2004_football_rules.pdf

quote:

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Defensive Team Requirements
ARTICLE 5. The defensive team requirements are as follows:
a. After the ball is ready for play and before the ball is snapped:
1. No player may touch the ball except when moved illegally as in Rule
7-1-3-a-1, nor may any player contact an opponent or in any other
way interfere with him. An official shall sound his whistle immediately
(A.R. 7-1-5-I-III) [S7 and S18].
2. No player may enter the neutral zone causing an offensive lineman
to react immediately. An official shall sound his whistle immediately
[Rules 2-18-2 and 7-1-3-a-4-(c) Exception] (A.R. 7-1-3-VIII and IX)
[S7 and S18].
3. No player shall use words or signals that disconcert opponents
when they are preparing to put the ball in play. No player may call
defensive signals that simulate the sound or cadence of (or otherwise
RULE 7-1/SNAPPING AND PASSING THE BALL
FR-92
interfere with) offensive starting signals. An official shall sound his
whistle immediately [S7 and S21].
4. Player(s) aligned in a stationary position within one yard of the line
of scrimmage may not make quick or abrupt actions that are not part
of normal defensive player movement in an obvious attempt to
cause an offensive player(s) to foul (false start). An official shall
sound his whistle immediately [S7 and S21].
PENALTY—Dead-ball foul. Five yards from the succeeding spot [S7, S18
or S21].

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[This message has been edited by lil99chris (edited 10/23/2004 8:26p).]

ah yes, this is a rule that i find interesting. i can understand why they have it...and i think it's a good one.

but it's always made me wonder if it would make an impact if you got enough people in the stands to do it if the line of scrimmage is close to the end zone...or if the fans are close to the field. i know it probably wouldn't do anything...but the refs couldn't flag you for that if it did. not really worth trying...just makes me wonder.

In my view, the only dead ball fouls should be fouls that occur during a dead ball, not fouls that occur from pre-snap (e.g. offensive false start/illegal procedure) to well into the play.

It has never made sense to me, for example, why an offense is penalized for a delay of game, and then the game is delayed much longer to enforce the penalty, one in which the defense may not want enforced (say, late in the game on a punt to keep the ball from going into the end zone).

Perhaps there is an example where a flag needs to be a dead ball foul -- other than the late hits out of bounds and such -- but otherwise, they need to drop a flag, and let the teams decide after the play is over.

What if they did it like 10 times in a row, knowing that no matter what, we still were going to kick the field goal instead of go for the touchdown. Then on the 11th time they don't but the kicker is so whipped by it all that he misses...

Seems like a problem...

That's the feeling I got when it happened. Getting that penalty is essentially the same as icing the kicker when you have no timeouts left to call.

I was thinking exactly the same (well, maybe not exactly 10 or 11 times, but several). Man it's tough enough for this kicker to know he HAS to hit this kick to tie the game. I don't think it would take many of those to get a kicker rattled out of his mind.

100% AGGIE, 100% OF THE TIME

yeah, and half the distance to the goal from the 2 yard line several times in a row really wouldn't cause the Offense coaches to say, "Hey, now we are 3/4 of a yard from the goal line with no time left. Let's go fot the TD now, screw the field goal that'll tie it up"

In this situation, I don't see where a dead ball foul hurts the defense at all. It's in their best interest to jump accross the line of scrimage or yell HUT HUT all they want.

*stupid double posts*

[This message has been edited by flakrat (edited 10/23/2004 10:37p).]