Seeing this board blow up on Reed and Klein --- easy targets for a loss of course. One leaving and one the leader of the offense.

Real issues are being ignored by about 70% of y'all.

O-line got dominated and had 2 egregious false start penalties. No holes for the run game; half of Reed's drop backs were sacks or hurries. He had to run 15 times as a result and was rushed on 18 drop backs overall.

Yes, the turnovers can't happen, and Reed will hopefully handle that next season... but the O-line just failed us Saturday and that's the bottom line.

WhataMaroon88 said:

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Seeing this board blow up on Reed and Klein --- easy targets for a loss of course. One leaving and one the leader of the offense.

Real issues are being ignored by about 70% of y'all.

O-line got dominated and had 2 egregious false start penalties. No holes for the run game; half of Reed's drop backs were sacks or hurries. He had to run 15 times as a result and was rushed on 18 drop backs overall.

Yes, the turnovers can't happen, and Reed will hopefully handle that next season... but the O-line just failed us Saturday and that's the bottom line.

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Yes i agree... reminded me of the oline in the previous past year or two...

The false start penalties absolutely KILLED us this year. That, with the possible exception of the special teams problems, was the most frustrating thing for me this season.

last week stephen mcgee said on texags radio that he was very worried about the game (strongly implied we would lose, but wouldnt flat out say it on texags radio) because QB play wasn't where it needed to be and hadnt been since before south carolina. Game shaped up almost exactly like he said it would.

The people who would know knew.

everything you said was true, but I would say most QBs who have started for us in the last 25 years win that game.

King of the Dairy Queen said:

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last week stephen mcgee said on texags radio that he was very worried about the game (strongly implied we would lose, but wouldnt flat out say it on texags radio) because QB play wasn't where it needed to be and hadnt been since before south carolina. Game shaped up almost exactly like he said it would.

The people who would know knew.

everything you said was true, but I would say most QBs who have started for us in the last 25 years win that game.

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Reed will never be great, but we know that. He's has to take care of the ball and that's how we won games this year. So, he definitely has to be better, but also, he didn't have the time to even attempt to be this game.

WhataMaroon88 said:

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Seeing this board blow up on Reed and Klein --- easy targets for a loss of course. One leaving and one the leader of the offense.

Real issues are being ignored by about 70% of y'all.

O-line got dominated and had 2 egregious false start penalties. No holes for the run game; half of Reed's drop backs were sacks or hurries. He had to run 15 times as a result and was rushed on 18 drop backs overall.

Yes, the turnovers can't happen, and Reed will hopefully handle that next season... but the O-line just failed us Saturday and that's the bottom line.

---

No oline can protect you if you hold the ball for 5-10 seconds. He had protection on the last play, it was a piss poor off target throw. He also had protection and time on the throw he threw 10 yards over Marios head that got picked.

IslanderAg04 said:

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WhataMaroon88 said:

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Seeing this board blow up on Reed and Klein --- easy targets for a loss of course. One leaving and one the leader of the offense.

Real issues are being ignored by about 70% of y'all.

O-line got dominated and had 2 egregious false start penalties. No holes for the run game; half of Reed's drop backs were sacks or hurries. He had to run 15 times as a result and was rushed on 18 drop backs overall.

Yes, the turnovers can't happen, and Reed will hopefully handle that next season... but the O-line just failed us Saturday and that's the bottom line.

---

No oline can protect you if you hold the ball for 5-10 seconds. He had protection on the last play, it was a piss poor off target throw. He also had protection and time on the throw he threw 10 yards over Marios head that got picked.

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I agree he's inaccurate, but we know that. He wasn't holding the ball 5-10 seconds...

We did not play well enough in the trenches, especially on offense. That is true. But Reed's inaccuracy and lack of touch on easy short passes is utterly inexcusable. Go back and rewatch the game. He threw multiple passes way over an open receiver's head, at an open receivers feet, way behind an open receiver, way ahead of an open receiver, right to the other team…..he looked like he had not played quarterback before on at least 7 or 8 critical plays. A good quarterback simply doesn't do that.

The evidence people point to in order to show Reed is a good quarterback is that he has stretches where he temporarily plays well and completes a lot of passes. The problem is, that's only about 50% of the time, at most. If you only play well 50% of the time, even if you look like a Heisman contender during that 50%, you're not a good quarterback. Two prerequisites to being a good quarterback are consistency and reliability. Reed has neither. Time to move on in my opinion.

AozorAg said:

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We did not play well enough in the trenches, especially on offense. That is true. But Reed's inaccuracy and lack of touch on easy short passes is utterly inexcusable. Go back and rewatch the game. He threw multiple passes way over an open receiver's head, at an open receivers feet, way behind an open receiver, way ahead of an open receiver, right to the other team…..he looked like he had not played quarterback before on at least 7 or 8 critical plays. A good quarterback simply doesn't do that.

The evidence people point to in order to show Reed is a good quarterback is that he has stretches where he temporarily plays well and completes a lot of passes. The problem is, that's only about 50% of the time, at most. If you only play well 50% of the time, even if you look like a Heisman contender during that 50%, you're not a good quarterback. Two prerequisites to being a good quarterback are consistency and reliability. Reed has neither. Time to move on in my opinion.

---

We could have won this game without Reed having to do much. He just needed to game manage -- but the Oline couldn't block enough to get more than a 4 yard run all game. Reed doesn't do well under pressure and got no help from his line.

WhataMaroon88 said:

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AozorAg said:

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We did not play well enough in the trenches, especially on offense. That is true. But Reed's inaccuracy and lack of touch on easy short passes is utterly inexcusable. Go back and rewatch the game. He threw multiple passes way over an open receiver's head, at an open receivers feet, way behind an open receiver, way ahead of an open receiver, right to the other team…..he looked like he had not played quarterback before on at least 7 or 8 critical plays. A good quarterback simply doesn't do that.

The evidence people point to in order to show Reed is a good quarterback is that he has stretches where he temporarily plays well and completes a lot of passes. The problem is, that's only about 50% of the time, at most. If you only play well 50% of the time, even if you look like a Heisman contender during that 50%, you're not a good quarterback. Two prerequisites to being a good quarterback are consistency and reliability. Reed has neither. Time to move on in my opinion.

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We could have won this game without Reed having to do much. He just needed to game manage -- but the Oline couldn't block enough to get more than a 4 yard run all game. Reed doesn't do well under pressure and got no help from his line.

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He missed numerous wide open throws when he was not being pressured. OL actually did ok in pass protection despite the sack numbers. Several of those were Reed just running into sacks. The run blocking was awful though.

The OL this year has been a huge under performance. With most of the starters graduating I am afraid to see what next years OL looks like and how they perform.
This was supposed to be one of our better OLs in a while.

I'm still kinda mad we didn't try to run
The ball on second down instead of going right for another pass.. I mean u had time and the downs .. just my opinion

JournoAG said:

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The false start penalties absolutely KILLED us this year. That, with the possible exception of the special teams problems, was the most frustrating thing for me this season.

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Lack of focus and discipline. That's what it boils into.

WhataMaroon88 said:

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Seeing this board blow up on Reed and Klein --- easy targets for a loss of course. One leaving and one the leader of the offense.

Real issues are being ignored by about 70% of y'all.

O-line got dominated and had 2 egregious false start penalties. No holes for the run game; half of Reed's drop backs were sacks or hurries. He had to run 15 times as a result and was rushed on 18 drop backs overall.

Yes, the turnovers can't happen, and Reed will hopefully handle that next season... but the O-line just failed us Saturday and that's the bottom line.

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Correct. They got ample pressure on Reed just rushing 4. Also stopped the run game without needing to load the box. They had 6 in coveragege plus a spy most of the game. It was like taking candy from a baby. We need a better OL next year!

Quote:

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everything you said was true, but I would say most QBs who have started for us in the last 25 years win that game.

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Nah, OP is right. O Line is bad and the backs aren't doing themselves any favors.

SteveA said:

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Quote:

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everything you said was true

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Nah, OP is right.

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WhataMaroon88 said:

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O-line got dominated and had 2 egregious false start penalties. No holes for the run game; half of Reed's drop backs were sacks or hurries. He had to run 15 times as a result and was rushed on 18 drop backs overall.

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Wrong!

In the first half...
On 85% of his drop backs, he had all day to throw.
28% of Marcel's balls were completely uncatchable.
40% of the passes that he did complete were at or behind the LOS.
Miami rushed 4 or less 85% of the plays and played mainly cover 2.
Zero points!

In the second half excluding the final drive...
On 65% of his dropbacks, he had plenty of time to throw.
In the 35% where he did not have time, 50% of were blitzes.
Two times when he had plenty of time to throw, he ran into the scrum and took a sack.
Once where he had plenty of time, he threw an INT
So 2 sacks and an INT occurred when he plenty of time to throw the ball.



For the entire game, excluding the final drive, he had had plenty of time on 75% of his drop backs !

Running game was not remotely close to good tho in the last 2 games

Quote:

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For the entire game, excluding the final drive, he had had plenty of time on 75% of his drop backs !

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Time to throw is variable when they can drop 7 or 8 in coverage.

halfastros81 said:

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Running game was not remotely close to good tho in the last 2 games

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Miami played 7 or more in the box on 95% of their D plays. They also tackled extremely well. The best I've seen this year. We had very little if any YAC from any skill position. That was huge factor in this game.

JohnClark929 said:

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WhataMaroon88 said:

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Seeing this board blow up on Reed and Klein --- easy targets for a loss of course. One leaving and one the leader of the offense.

Real issues are being ignored by about 70% of y'all.

O-line got dominated and had 2 egregious false start penalties. No holes for the run game; half of Reed's drop backs were sacks or hurries. He had to run 15 times as a result and was rushed on 18 drop backs overall.

Yes, the turnovers can't happen, and Reed will hopefully handle that next season... but the O-line just failed us Saturday and that's the bottom line.

---

Correct. They got ample pressure on Reed just rushing 4. Also stopped the run game without needing to load the box. They had 6 in coveragege plus a spy most of the game. It was like taking candy from a baby. We need a better OL next year!

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tbis offensive line had loads of experience and had played together for a long time. that gave them a major edge against most teams. however against the upper echelon defenses we faced we didn't move people enough. my point is we need an increase in talent to go with experience. while many off this line will be drafted few if any will be drafted early. that is kind of my point.

If only there were ways to overcome weak offensive line.

Quick slants
RB throws
Middle screens
HUHN
Draws
Option (Army/Navy Old GT style) type plays
Play action

A competent OC wins this game and even as bad as Reed was wins.

I know it is a discussion board, but bottom line, 11 team wins and 2 team losses. Time to move on to the offseason, reload and progress. There are great players coming up and coaches who know how to work the portal. Looking forward to 2026. Gig'em!

Another way to look at it is that we completely abandoned the run versus tu and Miami. All year long we committed to run and wore the opponent down sufficiently where we started clicking in the 3rd or 4th quarter when it mattered.

SteveA said:

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Quote:

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everything you said was true, but I would say most QBs who have started for us in the last 25 years win that game.

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Nah, OP is right. O Line is bad and the backs aren't doing themselves any favors.

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The running backs have the vision of Ray Charles. They miss holes and run into the backs of o-linemen all of the time.

Don't disagree , just saying you have to find a way to spread them out so you can run the ball. You can't be one dimensional or they will … hold you to 3 points . I can't recall, did we run any jet sweeps at all. I think we did have a few designed runs for Reed but most of his rushing yards were scrambles . Their defense was good but it felt like to me we didn't make many adjustments .

7 sacks allowed says something

I agree we need to be better in the trenches. But we're not going to just magically fix that before next season, at least not fix it enough where an average QB will be enough for us to win. Reed is not a game changer. He's inaccurate and makes some really bad decisions throwing into coverage. So in short, we need both - a better QB and better OL.

Logos Stick said:

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WhataMaroon88 said:

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O-line got dominated and had 2 egregious false start penalties. No holes for the run game; half of Reed's drop backs were sacks or hurries. He had to run 15 times as a result and was rushed on 18 drop backs overall.

---

Wrong!

In the first half...
On 85% of his drop backs, he had all day to throw.
28% of Marcel's balls were completely uncatchable.
40% of the passes that he did complete were at or behind the LOS.
Miami rushed 4 or less 85% of the plays and played mainly cover 2.
Zero points!

In the second half excluding the final drive...
On 65% of his dropbacks, he had plenty of time to throw.
In the 35% where he did not have time, 50% of were blitzes.
Two times when he had plenty of time to throw, he ran into the scrum and took a sack.
Once where he had plenty of time, he threw an INT
So 2 sacks and an INT occurred when he plenty of time to throw the ball.



For the entire game, excluding the final drive, he had had plenty of time on 75% of his drop backs !

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I'll take your word for it when I watched the replay it seemed he had to release quick or was getting pressure the entire 2nd half. Are you counting his quick screens in that 75%?
]

Azeew said:

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Another way to look at it is that we completely abandoned the run versus tu and Miami. All year long we committed to run and wore the opponent down sufficiently where we started clicking in the 3rd or 4th quarter when it mattered.

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Which is exactly what Miami did to us, with a qb that also couldn't throw the ball. This whole board seems to miss that the wind made it impossible to throw the ball more than 20 yards. This was always going to be a line of scrimmage game.

Couldn't stop the run all year and really didn't run the. All all that well all year. Glad nothing is going to change within the offense. Just hire from within and continue.

Hubert J. Farnsworth said:

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SteveA said:

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Quote:

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everything you said was true, but I would say most QBs who have started for us in the last 25 years win that game.

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Nah, OP is right. O Line is bad and the backs aren't doing themselves any favors.

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The running backs have the vision of Ray Charles. They miss holes and run into the backs of o-linemen all of the time.

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Sitting in the end zone in 244 it was clear Owens missed sizable holes multiple times.

WhataMaroon88 said:

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AozorAg said:

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We did not play well enough in the trenches, especially on offense. That is true. But Reed's inaccuracy and lack of touch on easy short passes is utterly inexcusable. Go back and rewatch the game. He threw multiple passes way over an open receiver's head, at an open receivers feet, way behind an open receiver, way ahead of an open receiver, right to the other team…..he looked like he had not played quarterback before on at least 7 or 8 critical plays. A good quarterback simply doesn't do that.

The evidence people point to in order to show Reed is a good quarterback is that he has stretches where he temporarily plays well and completes a lot of passes. The problem is, that's only about 50% of the time, at most. If you only play well 50% of the time, even if you look like a Heisman contender during that 50%, you're not a good quarterback. Two prerequisites to being a good quarterback are consistency and reliability. Reed has neither. Time to move on in my opinion.

---

We could have won this game without Reed having to do much. He just needed to game manage -- but the Oline couldn't block enough to get more than a 4 yard run all game. Reed doesn't do well under pressure and got no help from his line.

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Just complete the easy throws. Had plenty of them, and missed horribly.
In the same way the run game can open up opportunities in the pass game….if the run game is getting stuffed, the pass game getting completions can also start to open up opportunities in the run game

WhataMaroon88 said:

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Logos Stick said:

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WhataMaroon88 said:

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O-line got dominated and had 2 egregious false start penalties. No holes for the run game; half of Reed's drop backs were sacks or hurries. He had to run 15 times as a result and was rushed on 18 drop backs overall.

---

Wrong!

In the first half...
On 85% of his drop backs, he had all day to throw.
28% of Marcel's balls were completely uncatchable.
40% of the passes that he did complete were at or behind the LOS.
Miami rushed 4 or less 85% of the plays and played mainly cover 2.
Zero points!

In the second half excluding the final drive...
On 65% of his dropbacks, he had plenty of time to throw.
In the 35% where he did not have time, 50% of were blitzes.
Two times when he had plenty of time to throw, he ran into the scrum and took a sack.
Once where he had plenty of time, he threw an INT
So 2 sacks and an INT occurred when he plenty of time to throw the ball.



For the entire game, excluding the final drive, he had had plenty of time on 75% of his drop backs !

---

I'll take your word for it when I watched the replay it seemed he had to release quick or was getting pressure the entire 2nd half. Are you counting his quick screens in that 75%?
]

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In first half, if you take out the LOS/bubble screen type passes, it was 81%. We only threw one like that in the 2nd half (excluding the last drive). Miami was just too good at tackling. We could not get any YAC on this bubble type plays and we normally do.

Marcel has two issues: 1) accuracy (which was on display in 1st half), and 2) zone Ds. Klein did not help him out either. How about some delayed draws with some mesh routes over the middle so the LBs are occupied and we bust some runs? How about more play action to draw in/freeze the LBs?! I would have done play action on every passing play mixed with same sets for runs.

We can win with him against top teams, but we need two things: much better D against the run and much better run offense. Miami really didn't do squat until the last drive with 4 minutes left where they gashed us with big runs. We had twice as many 1st downs! We had the ball 7 minutes more. We had 25 more plays!


eta: if we keep Marcel, he has to learn how to beat cover 2 D

Azeew said:

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Another way to look at it is that we completely abandoned the run versus tu and Miami. All year long we committed to run and wore the opponent down sufficiently where we started clicking in the 3rd or 4th quarter when it mattered.

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Reed wasn't always as horribly inaccurate thru the year as he was vs SCar, t.u., and Miami.
His accuracy wasn't ever great, but it was serviceable.
And for whatever reason, it was a far cry from serviceable in those last few games.

The whole "do X and it'll open up chances for Y" is a two way street.
Yes, success in the run opens up opportunities for the pass.
But the reverse of that is also true, and we couldn't get success in the pass at all to help open up the run.