Texas A&M Football
Sponsored by

Referee Review: Steve Marlowe

3,142 Views | 24 Replies | Last: 8 days ago by OMB100GAS
OMB100GAS
User Profile Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
7:43p, 11/8/24
AG
We all know the defense missed 25 tackles and the SC jerseys looked a little lubed up , but regardless of how bad our defense was, it was compounded by penalties and a lot of them.

Many people have pointed out the disparity between the Ags and the cocks in terms of flags thrown, so I decided to dig a little deeper on the officiating crew in search of trends and answers.


Marlowe has refereed 7 SEC games for the Ags, and the Ags were the more penalized team in every single instance.


Marlowe also reffed 2 non-conference opponents- Appalachian State 2022 (we were penalized more) and ACU 2023 (the only game we've ever had less penalties with Marlowe at the helm)

The only SEC game with Steve as the ref where we technically had more flags than our opponent was Arky 2019 but we still had more penalty yardage.

Let's review...


11/2/24 Aggies @ Gamecocks

Aggies 7-68
Cocks 3-25

Referee: Marlowe, Steve
Line Judge: Conway, Chris
Side Judge: Larrew, Justin
Umpire: Lawray, Rodney
Back Judge: Gautney, Wayne
Linesman: Green, Ralph
Field Judge: Nicholson, Allan


9/14/24 Aggies @ Gators

Aggies 13-110
Gators 7-65

Referee: Marlowe, Steve
Line Judge: Conway, Chris
Side Judge: Larrew, Justin
Umpire: Lawary, Rodney
Back Judge: Gautney, Wayne
Linesman: Green, Ralph
Field Judge: Nicholson, Allan


9/25/21 Aggies vs Hogs

Aggies 11-75
Hogs 10-65

Referee: Marlowe,Steve
Line Judge: Bovas,Marc
Side Judge: Larrew,Justin
Umpire: Sowell,Brent
Back Judge: Gautney,Wayne
Linesman: Green,Ralph
Field Judge: Britton,Andy


10/23/21 Aggies vs Cocks

Aggies 8-90
Cocks 6-57

Referee: Marlowe,Steve
Line Judge: Bavos,Marc
Side Judge: Larrew,Justin
Umpire: Hill,Walt
Back Judge: Gautney,Wayne
Linesman: Green,Ralph
Field Judge: Britton,Andy


10/10/20 Aggies vs Gators

Aggies 5-67
Gators 5-32

Referee: Steve Marlowe
Line Judge: Marc Bovos
Side Judge: Justin Larrew
Umpire: Stan Weihe
Back Judge: Wayne Gautney
Linesman: Ralph Green
Field Judge: Andy Britton


9/28/19 Aggies vs Hogs

Aggies 6-55
Hogs 8-48

Referee: Steve Marlowe
Line Judge: Marc Bovos
Side Judge: Rob Skelton
Umpire: Brian Davis
Back Judge: Wayne Gautney
Linesman: Ralph Green
Field Judge: Andy Britton


11/16/2019 Aggies vs Cocks

Aggies 8-75
Cocks 4-41

Referee: Steve Marlowe
Line Judge: Marc Bovos
Side Judge: Justin Larrew
Umpire: Stan Weihe
Back Judge: Wayne Gautney
Linesman: Ralph Green
Field Judge: Andy Britton



You will notice the general crew is similar with the biggest changes being the Line Judge and Field Judge. Since the line judge focuses more on pre-play action, and the field judge has more influence on penalties called during play, I also cross-checked Andy Britton and Allan Nicholson

Nicholson has been our field judge for two SEC games without Steve Marlowe:
11/13/21 Aggies @ Rebels
Ags 11-90 Rebels 6-51
10/26/19 Aggies vs Miss State
Ags 5-45 Dogs 5-25

Likewise, Britton has been our field judge for two SEC games without Steve Marlowe:
10/17/20 Aggies @ Miss State
Ags 5-40 Dogs 3-25
9/26/2020 Aggies vs Vandy
Ags 8-50 Vandy 3-35

So the trend still holds.

I know the easiest explanation is Aggies are generally the more sloppy team and we haven't been good in years but at what point is this more than a coincidence???

Reply Quote
14
greg.w.h
User Profile Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
7:53p, 11/8/24
AG
https://alabamanewscenter.com/2016/09/02/alabama-power-office-manager-sec-football-referee-weekends/
Reply Quote
5
OMB100GAS
User Profile Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to greg.w.h • 7:57p, 11/8/24
AG
Yep, other boards have mentioned this article. Wonder if this years Bama vs SC game had any influence on Steve's perception of SC?
Reply Quote
5
StinkyPinky
User Profile Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to greg.w.h • 7:59p, 11/8/24
AG
greg.w.h said:
https://alabamanewscenter.com/2016/09/02/alabama-power-office-manager-sec-football-referee-weekends/
I bet he can manage the hell out of that office
Reply Quote
4
greg.w.h
User Profile Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to StinkyPinky • 8:09p, 11/8/24
AG
StinkyPinky said:
greg.w.h said:
https://alabamanewscenter.com/2016/09/02/alabama-power-office-manager-sec-football-referee-weekends/
I bet he can manage the hell out of that office
Hall monitor, you said???
Reply Quote
Divining Rod
User Profile Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
12:24a, 11/9/24
where do you GET all that info???
Reply Quote
2
OMB100GAS
User Profile Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
1:23a, 11/9/24
AG
12thman.com
Reply Quote
1
Girlhowdy
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
7:10a, 11/9/24
AG
When I saw he was referee for South Carolina game I knew then we had 2 opponents.
Reply Quote
1
DallasAggie89
User Profile Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
7:25a, 11/9/24
AG
Assistant to the Office Manager
Reply Quote
4
texAZtea
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
8:00a, 11/9/24
AG
To know if a particular ref is actually biased against us we would have to break down games to see how many penalties each team actually committed, called or not.

Then you could have several metrics based on that, like true penalties called, false penalties called, and true penalties not called.

For the ref you could add together the false penalties called and true penalties not called to put together an accuracy index. You could partition their accuracy indices into teams and see what the differences are between teams, and that would give you a sense of their bias for or against certain teams. Simply, do they make more mistakes when certain teams are playing than others?

For the team you could add together the true penalties called and true penalties not called and have a penalty index, which would be useful as a baseline for understanding whether or not your team commits more penalties than others. You could also compare true penalties called to true penalties not called to establish a sort of general bias rating, or how much the average ref will call against your team vs. others.

If anyone has access to a bunch of interns and is looking for a master's project in moneyballomics, feel free to rip this off.
Reply Quote
1
Divining Rod
User Profile Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
8:11a, 11/9/24
^ I think there's as much chance of that analysis happening as there is someone actually reading your whole post.
Reply Quote
3
Luke The Drifter
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to texAZtea • 8:16a, 11/9/24
AG
texAZtea said:
To know if a particular ref is actually biased against us we would have to break down games to see how many penalties each team actually committed, called or not.

Then you could have several metrics based on that, like true penalties called, false penalties called, and true penalties not called.

For the ref you could add together the false penalties called and true penalties not called to put together an accuracy index. You could partition their accuracy indices into teams and see what the differences are between teams, and that would give you a sense of their bias for or against certain teams. Simply, do they make more mistakes when certain teams are playing than others?

For the team you could add together the true penalties called and true penalties not called and have a penalty index, which would be useful as a baseline for understanding whether or not your team commits more penalties than others. You could also compare true penalties called to true penalties not called to establish a sort of general bias rating, or how much the average ref will call against your team vs. others.

If anyone has access to a bunch of interns and is looking for a master's project in moneyballomics, feel free to rip this off.


Exactly. Folks get hung up on visible statistics, like actual penalties called (and accepted.) To get a more accurate and telling picture of the competency / bias of an officiating crew is to dive into the penalties *not* called. It's easy to read the box score to see that Team A had 8 penalties for 105 yards while Team B only had 4 penalties for 30 yards. That looks terrible, right? But what does not show up in the box score is the controversial play that was clearly pass interference on Team A where no flag was thrown...or the facemask penalty on Team B that was missed.

I think the best analysis (which I certainly do not have the time or energy to do) is to look at the non-calls where the TV cameras are not focused. Things like defensive and offensive holding, late hits away from the ball, or interior linemen making fake pre-snap, snap count calls. Allegedly, the SEC office does this kind of breakdown, but it doesn't seem to result in the overall officiating being better.

But those who hope in the LORD will renew their strength. They will soar on wings like eagles; they will run and not grow weary, they will walk and not be faint. Isaiah 40:31 (NIV)
Reply Quote
2
Gil Renard
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
8:19a, 11/9/24
AG
OP POTY
Reply Quote
Nino Brown
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
9:44a, 11/9/24
I'll give Steve a little bit of a break despite both of his kids being Aggies in hs but gumps in college.

Also, even though his daughter isn't the hottest thing in the world, still wood.


Reply Quote
90ags
User Profile Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
10:19a, 11/9/24
Didn't have time to read, but believe he's a Bama grad. if I recall. Does SEC preclude him from Bama games (do they enforce that referees cannot call games if they are graduates of one of the school's teams on the field)?
______________________________________________________ Play for the name on the front of your jersey, not the back...
Reply Quote
Bill Superman
User Profile Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
10:33a, 11/9/24
AG
That just means him and that other sip will be the refs for our game vs sip, so be ready.
Reply Quote
2
OMB100GAS
User Profile Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to texAZtea • 11:05a, 11/9/24
AG
The limitation there is access to all 22 tape. Broadcasts don't show the whole field or play, so we can't know for sure which penalties were missed.

The point being made here is that in 7 SEC games the Ags were the more penalized team each instance. The sample size increases to 11 SEC games including the alternating field judges. 7 is already statistically significant, but 11 is highly suspect.

It would be easier to compare this officiating crew against all other games in that time span. We may trend towards being the more sloppy team overall but it will definitely not be so lopsided.

The claim also is not that Steve is explicitly biased, rather it is that his perception of teams is heavily skewed being both a Bama fan and a fan of the sport in general. He probably saw his Alma mater almost lose to SC, so he thinks wow this SC team is pretty good and his perception is made manifest through his own actions, it's not bias against the Aggies as much as it is confirmation bias of his preconceived notions
Reply Quote
texAZtea
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to Divining Rod • 11:31a, 11/9/24
AG
Divining Rod said:
^ I think there's as much chance of that analysis happening as there is someone actually reading your whole post.
Not my fault your attention span is as short as a teenager's.
Reply Quote
1
texAZtea
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to OMB100GAS • 11:36a, 11/9/24
AG
OMB100GAS said:
The limitation there is access to all 22 tape. Broadcasts don't show the whole field or play, so we can't know for sure which penalties were missed.

The point being made here is that in 7 SEC games the Ags were the more penalized team each instance. The sample size increases to 11 SEC games including the alternating field judges. 7 is already statistically significant, but 11 is highly suspect.

It would be easier to compare this officiating crew against all other games in that time span. We may trend towards being the more sloppy team overall but it will definitely not be so lopsided.

The claim also is not that Steve is explicitly biased, rather it is that his perception of teams is heavily skewed being both a Bama fan and a fan of the sport in general. He probably saw his Alma mater almost lose to SC, so he thinks wow this SC team is pretty good and his perception is made manifest through his own actions, it's not bias against the Aggies as much as it is confirmation bias of his preconceived notions
It may be statistically significant, but there are confounding factors. All that says is that the Ags can expect to be heavily penalized. It doesn't say whose fault it is.

You can't really "prove" perception.

It would take a bunch of time, money, training, etc to really break it down. Until people stop spending money on the sport because of terrible officiating, it will not be addressed. Probably won't happen.
Reply Quote
merch
User Profile Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to OMB100GAS • 1:00p, 11/9/24
SC didn't have a single penalty until the game was already decided. Nearly impossible.

So you have to look at timing as well. The "even it up" type flags after game is over looks good on paper but is completely meaningless.
Nothing looks more foolish than tradition to those who have none.
Reply Quote
4
OMB100GAS
User Profile Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to texAZtea • 1:25p, 11/9/24
AG
You can't prove most of this **** but thats kind of the point of a discussion board lol

Perception strongly influences behavior, so if we analyze behavioral trends then we can more closely deduce perception
Reply Quote
rintintin221
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to merch • 1:38p, 11/9/24
AG
merch said:
SC didn't have a single penalty until the game was already decided. Nearly impossible.

So you have to look at timing as well. The "even it up" type flags after game is over looks good on paper but is completely meaningless.
I understand what you are saying, but a flag was thrown against USCe on our first drive. It was an 8 yard gain by Moss and we declined it. In hindsight we should have accepted it. I absolutely agree the refs missed a ton of penalties against them that hurt us though.
Reply Quote
Heineken-Ashi
User Profile Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to rintintin221 • 1:46p, 11/9/24
rintintin221 said:
merch said:
SC didn't have a single penalty until the game was already decided. Nearly impossible.

So you have to look at timing as well. The "even it up" type flags after game is over looks good on paper but is completely meaningless.
I understand what you are saying, but a flag was thrown against USCe on our first drive. It was an 8 yard gain by Moss and we declined it. In hindsight we should have accepted it. I absolutely agree the refs missed a ton of penalties against them that hurt us though.
Your last sentence is the problem. We were heavily scrutinized while there was almost no focus on SC. That's a clear advantage to one team, and one that tends to materialize over the course of the game. Penalizing one team on just a single critical play can change the game, while refusing to penalize the other on a critical play can compound that same thing.
Reply Quote
rintintin221
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to Heineken-Ashi • 1:58p, 11/9/24
AG
Heineken-Ashi said:
rintintin221 said:
merch said:
SC didn't have a single penalty until the game was already decided. Nearly impossible.

So you have to look at timing as well. The "even it up" type flags after game is over looks good on paper but is completely meaningless.
I understand what you are saying, but a flag was thrown against USCe on our first drive. It was an 8 yard gain by Moss and we declined it. In hindsight we should have accepted it. I absolutely agree the refs missed a ton of penalties against them that hurt us though.
Your last sentence is the problem. We were heavily scrutinized while there was almost no focus on SC. That's a clear advantage to one team, and one that tends to materialize over the course of the game. Penalizing one team on just a single critical play can change the game, while refusing to penalize the other on a critical play can compound that same thing.
I agree wholeheartedly, I just keep seeing the narrative that they didn't have a single penalty until late in the game, which is false.
Reply Quote
OMB100GAS
User Profile Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to rintintin221 • 2:37p, 11/9/24
AG
even late in the game they were procedural, kicking out of bounds twice, and a delay of game.

I get your point of denying the notion that no flag was thrown, but flags themselves don't matter as much as the yardage and how it impacts the game. And that's what makes this even more odd is that even when these officials call more 'even' games the ags still get more penalty yards.

This is why the perception of the refs matters- if they perceive Aggies as underachieving, overrated, and undisciplined (a popular public narrative) then the reality they help generate through their behavior will reflect this

In the instance of SC, the narrative was that SC was very underrated and should be 7-1 and should have beat the lead refs alma mater in Tuscaloosa. General punditry called it a trap game and predicted a low scoring tough battle for the overachieving Aggies.

At the beginning it seems that either team could win, but SC quickly jumps out front, confirming the national narrative and reassuring the bama grad that SC is actually very good so their close game wasn't all that bad… all of the sudden SC is avoiding penalties because they are perceived as the better team and the Aggies are penalized more as they are perceived as the worse team. Compounding confirmation bias
Reply Quote
Refresh
Page 1 of 1
 
×
subscribe Verify your student status
See Subscription Benefits
Trial only available to users who have never subscribed or participated in a previous trial.