Saw this on FB and thought it was interesting.

Jim Harbaugh's first 6 years at Michigan:
1 bowl win
No Big Ten titles
0-6 vs. Ohio State

Jim Harbaugh's past 3 years at Michigan:
3-straight Big Ten titles
Unbeaten vs. Ohio State
Offered 10-year, $125M extension
15-0 perfect season
National Championship

-I also recall that Dabo couldn't get over the hump for quite a while and "Clemsoning" was a thing.

-While it took only 2 years for Jimbo to win at Florida State, he was already on Bowden's staff and they had years of great recruiting.

-Mack Brown was at t.u. 1998-2005 before winning a title

Not all cases are the same, but I do find it interesting.

natty or bust is a good way to constantly bust.

Ive always thought that the goal should be consistently winning 10 games. If do that then championships will eventually occur.

2thFixinAg said:

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natty or bust is a good way to constantly bust.

Ive always thought that the goal should be consistently winning 10 games. If do that then championships will eventually occur.

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I think Harbaugh was working with a more favorable situation in recruiting to Michigan and he definitely won more than Jimbo and was still on the hot seat with their fans.

But changing coaches every three years if you don't get ten wins once is Looney Tunes and Merrie Melodies. It's entertaining and makes kids smile. A three to four win coach? Sure. Had Jimbo outlasted his welcome? Probably. Was keeping Slocum the right approach? No. Fran? No. Sherman? Maybe 2-3 more years. Sumlin? No.

Winning ten isn't the only story arc. But it's easiest to count so low-knowledge fans like it:

No CF programs is going to give a head coach a very long leash, the days of Bobby Bowden, Tom Osborn, and JoePa are over.

If they were coaching today, they would have been fired within 6 years; took all of them years to win a national championship.

Our microwave generation wants it now, and coaches have become disposable.

Covid probably was the reason he was not let go after 6 years. Life is all about timing.

I think Jimbo is a lot more stubborn than those other coaches and he would have never gotten there. It would have been very easy for him, just hand the offense over to Petrino and stop micro managing. A few changes and he would be fine. But he refused to make any changes.

Transfer portal and early signing day are a nightmare for coaching changes. The cost is so great on your roster it's tough to overcome.

The transfer portal is a double edged sword though and could be a positive in terms of refreshing your entire roster (see colorado), but I think that's only an advantage for truly terrible teams.

You seem to have conveniently left out his record when trying to make your point. He was 49-22 in those first 6 seasons. 3 10-win seasons, 1-9 win seaons, an 8 win and then a mediocre COVID year. Yes, he couldn't beat OSU but he was winning at a high pace.

stop it. there is no comparison to what Harbaugh was doing and what Fisher was doing in terms of results.

I have always said to give him one more year…donot know all the circumstances with his firing but team was a few plays away from something good

agINbj2000 said:

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I have always said to give him one more year…donot know all the circumstances with his firing but team was a few plays away from something good

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Two late interceptions from Max Johnson in both the Alabama and Ole Miss games. If we would have scored late in those games, Jimbo would still be the head coach with an 9-3 record.

agINbj2000 said:

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I have always said to give him one more year…donot know all the circumstances with his firing but team was a few plays away from something good

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Jimbo was always a few plays away from 10-2 or 11-1 yet showed zero signs of adapting his philosophy to finding those plays. Jimbo was too stubborn to say the least, offensive scheme was out of date, micromanaging every aspect while letting things like special teams, player development, and strength & conditioning become obsolete are signs of coach that was out of touch. He ran everything like he did in 2013 at FSU yet it was 2023 at Texas A&M and the game had changed drastically. He was not going to overhaul is coaches, S&C, and front office at this point. People in the know knew he was changing so the change was made.

As was said above, had Jimbo just turned the offense over to Petrino, he would still be here.

The difference b/w JH & JF is all about narrative, which doesn't show up in OP's comparisons. On top of that, we are much more vulnerable to antagonistic narratives than UMich (tougher conference, legacy of media bigotry against us, surrounded by very strong rivals, rather than UMich's 1.5 rivals across their whole region).

In particular, I'd also wager that JH didn't have an Addazio-equivalent albatross around his neck that he refused to even acknowledge, let alone deal with.

A Jimbo that showed a stronger attachment to reality (fire Addazio, give Petrino free reign with scheme + personnel) would still be here, even with the same W-L outcome this season (incl. bowl loss to oSu).

Me personally I'd've loved that. But, as Papa Clint Eastwood said, "Power corrupts, and absolutely guaranteed income guarantees absolute corruption."

Harbaugh is smart & adapted


Jimbo is a dumb**** that benched a good player bc he wore sleeves

Whatthefunyo said:

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Saw this on FB and thought it was interesting.

Jim Harbaugh's first 6 years at Michigan:
1 bowl win
No Big Ten titles
0-6 vs. Ohio State

Jim Harbaugh's past 3 years at Michigan:
3-straight Big Ten titles
Unbeaten vs. Ohio State
Offered 10-year, $125M extension
15-0 perfect season
National Championship

-I also recall that Dabo couldn't get over the hump for quite a while and "Clemsoning" was a thing.

-While it took only 2 years for Jimbo to win at Florida State, he was already on Bowden's staff and they had years of great recruiting.

-Mack Brown was at t.u. 1998-2005 before winning a title

Not all cases are the same, but I do find it interesting.

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difference is that daba nad harbaugh were winning 10 games a year at micgigan and clemson whlle jimbo was winning 7 and 8

those two guys did enough to be kept on at their respectivew schools while jimbo, outside of a covid year, never did.

Yeah, well, if Jimbo had racked up multiple 10-win years like Harbaugh did, we would have given him a few more years as well. Jimbo's record was putrid compared to Harbaugh's for the first 6 years.

Side note; MI lost 13 of their 16 bowl games for the 20 years prior to this year. (yawza!)

2thFixinAg said:

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natty or bust is a good way to constantly bust.

Ive always thought that the goal should be consistently winning 10 games. If do that then championships will eventually occur.

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It's funny that this is your takeaway considering the information the OP shared about patience and sticking to your guns. Our natty or bust plan has resulted in a massive churn at HC and not much else since we fired RC.

agchugger said:

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You seem to have conveniently left out his record when trying to make your point. He was 49-22 in those first 6 seasons. 3 10-win seasons, 1-9 win seaons, an 8 win and then a mediocre COVID year. Yes, he couldn't beat OSU but he was winning at a high pace.

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Exactly. We weren't simply not winning the West or SEC, we have been getting worse with the most talent we've ever had. Not to mention Jimbo's decision making and seemingly disorganized lack of situational awareness in big moments, he was in no way, shape or form doing the same as Harbaugh.

Maybe bad continuity is simply bad and needed to change?

LB12Diamond said:

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Covid probably was the reason he was not let go after 6 years. Life is all about timing.

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Global warming.

Davidtheag said:

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No CF programs is going to give a head coach a very long leash, the days of Bobby Bowden, Tom Osborn, and JoePa are over.

If they were coaching today, they would have been fired within 6 years; took all of them years to win a national championship.

Our microwave generation wants it now, and coaches have become disposable.

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Michigan proved you wrong…and won an NC…

greg.w.h said:

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Davidtheag said:

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No CF programs is going to give a head coach a very long leash, the days of Bobby Bowden, Tom Osborn, and JoePa are over.

If they were coaching today, they would have been fired within 6 years; took all of them years to win a national championship.

Our microwave generation wants it now, and coaches have become disposable.

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Michigan proved you wrong…and won an NC…

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Harbaugh had multiple ten win seasons and not afraid to make changes at OC and DC in terms of actual coordinators and scheme. He was willing to adapt to get over the 10 win barrier and Ohio State barrier. Jimbo was not.

The whiny battered Aggies would have never allowed Harbaugh to stay that long.

Because we deserve a championship now, and if we don't get a championship now, we're going to fire your azz now… no matter how far back it sets the program.

An old Ag from the class of 50 something laughed and told me many years ago, "Aggies are always 1 firing away from a championship".

2thFixinAg said:

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natty or bust is a good way to constantly bust.

Ive always thought that the goal should be consistently winning 10 games. If do that then championships will eventually occur.

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One has to actually win 10 games annually first, though

Meximan said:

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2thFixinAg said:

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natty or bust is a good way to constantly bust.

Ive always thought that the goal should be consistently winning 10 games. If do that then championships will eventually occur.

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One has to actually win 10 games annually first, though

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or once for that matter…

Harbaugh also agreed to a pay reduction somewhere in the middle of that period. (his base salary went from $8 million to $4 million + incentives in 2021) good luck getting another coach to agree.

SunrayAg said:

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The whiny battered Aggies would have never allowed Harbaugh to stay that long.

Because we deserve a championship now, and if we don't get a championship now, we're going to fire your azz now… no matter how far back it sets the program.

An old Ag from the class of 50 something laughed and told me many years ago, "Aggies are always 1 firing away from a championship".

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Jimbo earned his dismissal. He was not even close to sniffing a title much less ten wins. He was as close in year 6 as year 1, always a play here or an injury there to winning when it mattered. Y'all act like if everything broke right he would land us in the title game well in order for everything to break right you have to be in a position for success. That was not happening with Jimbo. Best players did not play and the good ones were often injured. Next year he would rolled out the same bulky, overweight, non explosive, injury prone team in 2024 with his zero motion offense and his absurd 4 DT defense with corners that played chase coverage instead of playing the ball. All while he and his buddies got rich.

If you watched Michigan / Penn State this year (suspension game for JH), you'll see the players post-game talk about winning for the Coach and U of M. Maize and Blue. More of the same last night...those players were playing for U of M and JH. Never seen an Aggie team play that way / talk like that for Jimbo / Sumlin / Fran / Sherman. Possibly RC in '98 (D. Campbell, D. Nguyen, R. Coady).

Those players were on a mission for sure - they could have gone full transfer portal last year, but didn't. That's on the coach. Jim Harbaugh made that happen. Forget how challenging the conference is or not, or how evil the media is, that adversity along with Jim H. resulted in last night's victory.

I'd kill to have that...

It took six years to figure out that a six game suspension is less costly than the benefits from spying on teams and recruiting when you are not allowed. If you want to win cheat.

Jimbo's sign stealing game is WEAK.

Coaching continuity is everything. Revolving door with coaches doesn't end well, usually.

Keep rationalizing a less than thought out firing and hope you're right. It will help you sleep easier the next 6 years while we miss the playoffs Jimbo would have easily gotten us into next year.

Keep telling yourself that while we go 6-6 and 7-5 the next 4 years. Definitely justifies the exodus of talent that wanted him to stay.

agINbj2000 said:

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I have always said to give him one more year…donot know all the circumstances with his firing but team was a few plays away from something good

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He had 5 years to prepare for this one. If he was going to deliver on "something good" he should have done better in recruiting and development in the time he had.

Michigan in SEC? NO

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