My Name Is Judge said:

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Ignoring the unicorn fairy goaltenders for a minute…

What was your take on Haynes mechanics? Did they improve at all in the 3 seasons he was here?

When the head coach is a "QB Whisperer", should we expect our QBs to get to a point where their mechanics are elite?

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I'm no expert and have never claimed to be one, but I thought Haynes regressed

He has some film posted somewhere on this site, I think it's on his commitment post.

The length of his release is almost like the windup of an outfielders.

If you think Haynes King had a long, slow release, go watch this one. It makes Haynes look like John Elway.

When Reed sets his feet to throw, he drops his throwing arm to the point that the ball is at times below his waist level, not just at it, but actually below it before starting to bring it up and around over the top.

When he plants his back foot and begins to open his hips to step into his release, the ball should ideally be closer to his shoulder.

He is trying to generate all his power from his arm as opposed to his hips and upper body rotation.

He may be able to get away with that in high school, but when the game starts to speed up as rapidly as it's going to for him in college, that release is going to cause significant accuracy problems and timing problems.

It will also cause them to be much more prone to ball protection issues.

Denton82TAMU86 said:

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Straw man argument. Good job going from one extreme to the other.
You are the expert here so I have a legitimate question. Is there any chance for the player's mechanics to improve with coaching and practice of drills designed for better mechanics?

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Yes, there is. But the older the player is, the more difficult it is to change them.

And the more extreme the mechanical issues, the harder that hill is to climb as well.

It's not impossible, but it will take an awful lot of work and an awful lot of time, and there is still no guarantee. With his particular delivery issues, he is almost going to have to learn to throw the ball all over again.

This thread is on par with cancer

My Name Is Judge said:

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Ignoring the unicorn fairy goaltenders for a minute…

What was your take on Haynes mechanics? Did they improve at all in the 3 seasons he was here?

When the head coach is a "QB Whisperer", should we expect our QBs to get to a point where their mechanics are elite?

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Haynes did not appear to have any significant improvement from high school.

And, in my opinion, his delivery was one of the biggest reasons he had some accuracy/turnover issues.

With the speed at this level, a release that is that slow and telegraphed closes windows quickly and allows defensive backs to get a much better jump on the ball.

HanktheAg said:

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Reed is the real deal!
Weigman will be looking over his shoulder!

Both will need an O-line that can hold up.

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Iron sharpens Iron!

This seems like an honest evaluation of the kid's throwing motion, which I can appreciate.
Is there any hope of correcting it or is it too late?
My thoughts migrate to more mechanically driven sports like golf and baseball, both of which I know a helluva lot more about.
Elite athletes can change their mechanics in these sports. Can a college quarterback do the same or is it too late?

4 said:

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He has some film posted somewhere on this site, I think it's on his commitment post.

The length of his release is almost like the windup of an outfielders.

If you think Haynes King had a long, slow release, go watch this one. It makes Haynes look like John Elway.

When Reed sets his feet to throw, he drops his throwing arm to the point that the ball is at times below his waist level, not just at it, but actually below it before starting to bring it up and around over the top.

When he plants his back foot and begins to open his hips to step into his release, the ball should ideally be closer to his shoulder.

He is trying to generate all his power from his arm as opposed to his hips and upper body rotation.

He may be able to get away with that in high school, but when the game starts to speed up as rapidly as it's going to for him in college, that release is going to cause significant accuracy problems and timing problems.

It will also cause them to be much more prone to ball protection issues.

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Thanks for the break down. I will check out some video as I am sure 247 or on3 have videos archived.

Sure, it CAN happen. It's just rare in my experience that it does.

See HK as an example.

It's like woodworking, which I am horrible at. It's much easier to start building the project correctly from the start, rather than having to go back take things apart, re cut them and put the piece back together again the right way.

It can be done, but it is just really hard. And the further you get into the project, the more work and time it will take to go back and do it right.

It's also very easy to regress as you are improving into old habits.

Much easier to teach correct form/mechanics if the habits never existed to begin with.

That said, elite athletes have a better chance to correct problems than the average guy does.

By the way, we have all seen what the right way looks like.

Somewhere on this site, you can see what I posted in regard to Connor Weigman as far back as last year when he was still in high school.

That kid does virtually everything right.

Connor was the best high school quarterback I have ever seen, maybe shy of Andrew Luck. A lot of what he does cannot be taught, but the things that can be taught he does almost perfectly.

Connor was the best quarterback on this team the day he stepped foot on campus, and it wasn't even close.

So frustrating that we had to wait over halfway through the season for Jimbo to finally give in.

OriolePete said:

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Look, the only "real deal" there is, or ever will be, is Reggie McNeal. Even he didn't turn out to be that real...

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He ain't lying

I appreciate the reply. I have seen elite athletes make some crazy adjustments to their mechanics - just look at Tiger Woods over his career. But he's at the top of "elite".
Here's to Reed not being or becoming King 2.0.

Denton82TAMU86 said:

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I appreciate the reply. I have seen elite athletes make some crazy adjustments to their mechanics - just look at Tiger Woods over his career. But he's at the top of "elite".
Here's to Reed not being or becoming King 2.0.

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Baseball and golf are interesting examples.

I think there are some major differences as to why it is easier to change the mechanics of a pitcher or a golfer as opposed to a quarterback.

As a golfer, the only thing you have to worry about is your swing. And you can take all the time in the world to get it right. Which in my case, always gets it wrong. But that's another discussion.

As a pitcher, your delivery and mechanics are also by and large the only thing you need to concentrate on in the middle of a game. An exception possibly being pitching from the stretch when the pitcher might have to worry about base runners. But overall, the pitcher can simply concentrate on throwing motion and delivery.

In football, the quarterback not only usually doesn't have more than three seconds, but frequently has even less than that, while simultaneously having to pre-snap read, change/call the appropriate play, and in our case call out o line adjustments.

Once the ball is snapped, the QB has to go through progressions while trying to avoid being body slammed, and then deliver to the correct read on time and inside a very small window that is changing every 1/10 of a second.

Makes it difficult to think through the mechanics of a delivery. That all has to be done in throwing sessions to the point that it becomes muscle memory.

So when a player has been doing it wrong for a long time, that memory wants to snap back to the incorrect form.

Hope that helps explain why it is so difficult to adjust these type of things for a quarterback specifically.

I agree that the speed of football and the amount of information that has to be processed in seconds has an impact on the mechanics. The other examples of mechanical changes and particularly golf (maybe why you say your golf swing doesn't cooperate) are done through repetition. Repetition to the point where you don't want to think about it.
When you start thinking about mechanics on the course you are in trouble.
Once again, hoping Reed has the ability to make whatever changes he needs to make to become effective. And we can all agree, we hope that time doesn't come until after Conner has taken us to the promised land.

Are you really that simple???

4 said:

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He has some film posted somewhere on this site, I think it's on his commitment post.

The length of his release is almost like the windup of an outfielders.

If you think Haynes King had a long, slow release, go watch this one. It makes Haynes look like John Elway.

When Reed sets his feet to throw, he drops his throwing arm to the point that the ball is at times below his waist level, not just at it, but actually below it before starting to bring it up and around over the top.

When he plants his back foot and begins to open his hips to step into his release, the ball should ideally be closer to his shoulder.

He is trying to generate all his power from his arm as opposed to his hips and upper body rotation.

He may be able to get away with that in high school, but when the game starts to speed up as rapidly as it's going to for him in college, that release is going to cause significant accuracy problems and timing problems.

It will also cause them to be much more prone to ball protection issues.

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Sounds like Jefferson Joe Gilliam.

Um, yes!

Book it!

Still thinking this, nonsense?

Glad you are not on the Ags coaching staff!!!

Your post looks clownish now, huh?

Nice bump!

I see you OP

Didn't Reed prove himself in the bowl game? I'm pulling for both kids.

Sooooo, did Reed's mechanics improve? Did Conner regress?

Conner has definitely regressed. Whether that is due to shoulder issues is TBD. Reed still can improve with his throwing mechanics in my opinion, which I see as a good thing as the upside is there. He can clean that up more and expect he will…

The bottom line is regardless he made correct reads, found open receivers with very catchable throws, and can straight up BALL. His can add an extra dynamic opposing defenses will have to deal with and will help our receivers in the long run. Weigman is a pocket passer that fit better with the previous coach's offense (he who shall not be named.)

The comments in this thread are pure gold

4 said:

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HanktheAg said:

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Reed is the real deal!
Weigman will be looking over his shoulder!

Both will need an O-line that can hold up.

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The kid will never see the field barring injuries in front of him or mop up time.

His mechanics are the worst I've ever seen.

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Who cares about mechanics?! He can throw the ball downfield after he finds open receivers. He's a run threat, too … unlike Weigman. And it appears that the team has embraced him as a player they want to work with. It's even possible that the defense played inspired football when it fed off of a much more explosive offense. Mechanics? Who gives af about mechanics? I want to win.

This was great OP

4 said:

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HanktheAg said:

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Reed is the real deal!
Weigman will be looking over his shoulder!

Both will need an O-line that can hold up.

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The kid will never see the field barring injuries in front of him or mop up time.

His mechanics are the worst I've ever seen.

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This is one of them, right? I am done w crappy ass fans like this. Go elsewhere please. Not wanted here. Clueless. "4 "....troll, t-sip, just hater in life?

Nice technical write-up on his terrible form and how he could only get away with that in HS. Yet...you freaking ignore the reality of the facts! And what he has proven so far. Insanely good bowl performance and insanely good performance against Florida. So although you are kids pop warner QB whisperer....you do not know how it translates to success. Reed is fine. He has plenty of intangibles that may him a very, very tough QB to game plan against. Will he throw INTs and make mistakes? Heck yes.

4 said:

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His throwing mechanics are horrible.

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So you think Weigman's are better ? You need to stop smoking those funny little cigarettes....

I was also posting about buying PLTR @ $6/share when this was posted

What was that you said?