Per Kirby...

https://footballscoop.com/news/kirby-smart-no-coach-can-out-coach-recruiting

Apparently Mullen is late to the recruiting game...causing a stir amongst gatuhs..

https://footballscoop.com/news/dan-mullen-florida-gators-recruiting-woes

Also, didn't realize UTSA stepped up for Traylor (good for them)....

https://footballscoop.com/news/jeff-traylor-contract-extension-utsa

I'm not saying they are doing well in recruiting, but it's pretty clear to me he was saying he wasn't going to address recruiting questions during the season, not that they weren't recruiting during the season.

Wow. He should have stayed at MSU. Rule 1 of big money football is always be recruiting.

It's not the Xs and the Os, it's the jimmy and the Joes!

UTSA stepped up for Traylor, but it's not because they think they can keep him in any way.

They simply want a poaching team to pay a bigger buyout.

You can definitely outcoach recruiting. Some teams always do more with less, and there are plenty that do less with more (here's to you, tu). However, the issue is that the top teams do more, with more. If you have eyes to beat Saban or acquire some hardware, why not fight to get more, with which you can do even more?

camelmenthol said:

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Arkansas and Mississippi State outcoached recruiting

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Not over the long haul they won't. Our win percentage against those teams should be 80-90%. Jimbo has some work to do on that.

camelmenthol said:

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Arkansas and Mississippi State outcoached recruiting

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They also have one more loss than us.

I don't think Mullen can go off campus to recruit right now...

It's possible to outcoach recruiting, and some teams consistently do more with less. That usually leads to occasional dream 10+ win seasons. For example, Mike Leach led Texas Tech to an 11-2 season in 2008 and Washington State to an 11-2 season in 2018. Matt Campbell led Iowa State to the Big 12 Championship Game last year. Outcoaching recruiting might even led to Big 12 Conference championships. That's how Baylor (2013 and 2014), Kansas State (2003 and 2012), Oklahoma State (2011), and TCU (2014) won or shared at least one Big 12 championship.

However, winning an SEC championship and national title takes both great coaching and strong talent. Mark Stoops led Kentucky to a 10-3 season in 2018, and he is on track to lead them to another 10+ win season. But Kentucky does not have the talent to beat Georgia and win the SEC East, let alone the SEC Championship Game.

Matt Campbell of Iowa state says what's that more talent thing you speak of. I thought we had to keep winning with far less talent.

rootube said:

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CalzadasCalzones said:

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You can definitely outcoach recruiting. Some teams always do more with less, and there are plenty that do less with more (here's to you, tu). However, the issue is that the top teams do more, with more. If you have eyes to beat Saban or acquire some hardware, why not fight to get more, with which you can do even more?

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Doing more with less means the occasional dream season with some exciting upsets and a nice little bowl win. The thing Smart is talking about here is natty or bust. He is 100% correct.

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Except up until maybe this year if they can continue on, Smart has managed to under-coach his recruiting somewhat. He's had Top 3 recruiting classes for like 6 straight years but only made it to the title game once.
But he may have finally recruited to a level that can overcome coaching shortfalls this year or maybe he's finally figured the coaching part out.

Gene Chizik, Mack Brown, Ed Orgeron, Larry Coker, and Les Miles all have national titles. I can't think of the last national title won by great coaching and terrible/average talent.

You naysayers are reading too much into it, as Kirby obviously noted coaching matters, but he is also talking about overall. He is not saying the only thing that matters to beat Bama, win the SEC, win an NC, etc. is recruiting, though it is the largest component of it. A team for example like USC in his division, there is no amount of coaching they can do, by any coach, that can make up for the gulf of quality players between USC and UGA.

Development matters, coaching matters, but players and having the best/better players and depth of best/better players, that is what matters the most.

Salute The Marines said:

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Gene Chizik, Mack Brown, Ed Orgeron, Larry Coker, and Les Miles all have national titles. I can't think of the last national title won by great coaching and terrible/average talent.

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Lavell Edwards byu 1984
Georgia tech 1990
Oklahoma 1999

It's much easier to recruit great players than to develop them. Since the coaches only get players for practice 10 hours per week, recruiting matters more than anything else.

Detmersdislocatedshoulder said:

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Salute The Marines said:

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Gene Chizik, Mack Brown, Ed Orgeron, Larry Coker, and Les Miles all have national titles. I can't think of the last national title won by great coaching and terrible/average talent.

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Lavell Edwards byu 1984
Georgia tech 1990
Oklahoma 1999

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All over 20 years ago

wbt5845 said:

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Detmersdislocatedshoulder said:

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Salute The Marines said:

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Gene Chizik, Mack Brown, Ed Orgeron, Larry Coker, and Les Miles all have national titles. I can't think of the last national title won by great coaching and terrible/average talent.

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Lavell Edwards byu 1984
Georgia tech 1990
Oklahoma 1999

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All over 20 years ago

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Is there a time limit to great coaches winning national titles with inferior talent? Yes this was more than 20 years ago but salute stated he could not remember any so I provided some examples.

At the end of the day there is a reason why the teams that win big typically have better talent but I have also seen very talented teams be coached very poorly so it's definitely a combination.

Detmersdislocatedshoulder said:

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Salute The Marines said:

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Gene Chizik, Mack Brown, Ed Orgeron, Larry Coker, and Les Miles all have national titles. I can't think of the last national title won by great coaching and terrible/average talent.

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Lavell Edwards byu 1984
Georgia tech 1990
Oklahoma 1999

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That Oklahoma team had good talent all recruited by Jeff Blake

CalzadasCalzones said:

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You can definitely outcoach recruiting. Some teams always do more with less, and there are plenty that do less with more (here's to you, tu). However, the issue is that the top teams do more, with more. If you have eyes to beat Saban or acquire some hardware, why not fight to get more, with which you can do even more?

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This.

Traylor's comments would have me going, "uh Oh!"

Said how they contacted him and not other way around (subtext- I didnt say I was staying if they sweeten the pot; and "hey big guys, I'm still interested in another deal- not looking to lock myself up here")

Said what a great future the program has (subtext, not that I personally will be here, but UTSA has a great future)

Said it's all about the players (hey, I'm just a piece that may be here, may not, but it;s the PLAYERS that should be the focus of everyone)

Yeah, he gone soon.

rootube said:

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CalzadasCalzones said:

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You can definitely outcoach recruiting. Some teams always do more with less, and there are plenty that do less with more (here's to you, tu). However, the issue is that the top teams do more, with more. If you have eyes to beat Saban or acquire some hardware, why not fight to get more, with which you can do even more?

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Doing more with less means the occasional dream season with some exciting upsets and a nice little bowl win. The thing Smart is talking about here is natty or bust. He is 100% correct.

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I don't think anyone disagrees that to be a perennial playoff team you have to have stellar recruits. But for most programs, you have to get to that level first. And you can certainly get to that level with superb coaching of less than stellar recruits. The hope is that the recruits will follow. See Georgia recently.

If Bama (or anyone for that matter) starts consistently losing players to the transfer portal or the NFL, we'll then see how long they (and Saban) stay in the constant NC picture. Whether you can outcoach recruiting or not, you can neither outcoach nor outrecruit players leaving your program for whatever reason. Bama hasn't had that problem under Saban.

Salute The Marines said:

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Detmersdislocatedshoulder said:

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Salute The Marines said:

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Gene Chizik, Mack Brown, Ed Orgeron, Larry Coker, and Les Miles all have national titles. I can't think of the last national title won by great coaching and terrible/average talent.

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Lavell Edwards byu 1984
Georgia tech 1990
Oklahoma 1999

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That Oklahoma team had good talent all recruited by Jeff Blake

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No one thought their talent was quality when they went 3-9 the year before stoops took over. They had good talent in that team but the 99 team was probably one of stoops less talented teams. He has only been there two seasons when they won the title so he had one full recruiting class under his belt when they won it all.

In hindsight yes they had some talent but that's easy to see after the fact. At the time no one thought OU was that good.

Dario said:

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camelmenthol said:

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Arkansas and Mississippi State outcoached recruiting

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They also have one more loss than us.

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And when the season is over they will both have at least 4 or 5 losses and we will probably have at most 3, Maybe only 2

Salute The Marines said:

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Gene Chizik, Mack Brown, Ed Orgeron, Larry Coker, and Les Miles all have national titles. I can't think of the last national title won by great coaching and terrible/average talent.

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Correct

The last one may be 1984 BYU but that was in an era way before playoffs or even the bcs, so they didn't have to face the most talented teams

Detmersdislocatedshoulder said:

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Salute The Marines said:

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Gene Chizik, Mack Brown, Ed Orgeron, Larry Coker, and Les Miles all have national titles. I can't think of the last national title won by great coaching and terrible/average talent.

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Lavell Edwards byu 1984
Georgia tech 1990
Oklahoma 1999

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That ou team was very talented just under coached by John Blake prior to stoops arrival

90ags said:

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Per Kirby...

https://footballscoop.com/news/kirby-smart-no-coach-can-out-coach-recruiting

Apparently Mullen is late to the recruiting game...causing a stir amongst gatuhs..

https://footballscoop.com/news/dan-mullen-florida-gators-recruiting-woes

Also, didn't realize UTSA stepped up for Traylor (good for them)....

https://footballscoop.com/news/jeff-traylor-contract-extension-utsa

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2.8 million won't even slow down someone trying to pry him away…

Exhibit A for proof that coaching beats recruiting. Mike Leach 8-4 vs A&M with Ags having the better talent in each of the 12 contests.

Detmersdislocatedshoulder said:

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Salute The Marines said:

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Gene Chizik, Mack Brown, Ed Orgeron, Larry Coker, and Les Miles all have national titles. I can't think of the last national title won by great coaching and terrible/average talent.

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Lavell Edwards byu 1984
Georgia tech 1990
Oklahoma 1999

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Although these have been addressed at some level, I will respond too.
BYU 1984 - pre-CFP, pre-BCS. None of the powers had great seasons that year and byu ran the table against a very weak slate. The beat a 6-5 Michigan in the holiday bowl for their 'big win' over a big boy. They were gifted a championship by the pollsters

Georgia Tech 1990 - they were not as talent deficient in 1990 as they are today and they were also co-champs with Colorado that year (AP vs UPI) Still, they probably did overshoot their talent level a bit that year.

OU 1999 - as was stated, John Blake was a great recruiter but horrible coach. They did have a kick ass coaching staff though but I think one of their big advantages was being the first high talent level team to run the spread offense. The spread or whatever it was called back then was usually employed by lower talent teams to try to even things up