The biggest reason why the basketball regular season seems less meaningful is because there's literally twice as many games in it. No one is suggesting we double the college football regular season.

Also, we're talking 12 teams out of a field of around 130. That's still extremely exclusive.

Also, the new CCG auto bid feature actually gives more meaning to CCG's and conference games in the regular season. OOC games might be less meaningful, but in the SEC west for example, one loss is still extremely meaningful as it will likely keep you out of the CCG.

Lastly, the FBS is pretty much the only sports organization in the world that has an unwritten rule where half of its members are forbidden from competing for a championship. As much as everyone has whined on here about NIL rules and how "the rich will only get richer," you'd think they'd realize a 12 team playoff is one of the best measures to guard against that.

Aggieair said:

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The biggest problem I see with 12 teams is scheduling.

8 teams fits nicely, with the quarterfinals being the weekend after Army-Navy, and the first weekend of bowl season. Allows for roughly a two week gap between CCG weekend, quarterfinals, semifinals, and championship.

12 teams would mean there's now the CCG weekend, the next weekend is 5-12 seed teams playing at the same time as Army-Navy, then having the quarterfinals the weekend immediately after that.

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God willing.

I'm calling it now, if this goes down there will be 4-5 SEC teams in the playoff one year with 3 being from the same division. Then we will see 3 of the final 4 teams as SEC teams.

Then people will realize how stupid this was as the SEC pulls revenue and recruits. If the SEC commish was behind this well done sir.

Champ Bailey said:

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rootube said:

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Get Off My Lawn said:

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rootube said:

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Wreckingcrew22 said:

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I don't even want to playoff to expand. A playoff game at Kyle would be awesome but Indiana doesn't even deserve to be in the talks of playoff conversation. Why are we rewarding mediocrity?

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It's fascinating when people use the "They don't deserve it" argument. First, it's extremely subjective who deserves what given the massively unbalanced conferences. Second, people who are insulted by undeserving teams possibly getting in seem to be perfectly fine with staging glorified exhibition bowl games to reward everyone else for participating in the season.

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I think it's a perspective difference between those who want it to be about "identifying the year's best team" and those who see it as a "tournament champion."

If you like March Madness and the illusion that everyone gets a chance with the best prevailing through the gauntlet; then the more participants the better.

If you think "every game should matter" and think that regular season basketball is devalued by the tournament, then you become much more ok with a highly restrictive playoff as a way to keep the emphasis on the regular season.

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Why does everyone get so hung up on the NCAA basketball tournament? Every single other sport (college and pro) has an expanded tournament to crown a champion. Also no other sport has a concept of exhibition bowl games and literally nobody says their regular seasons don't matter. Yet somehow people freak out about the sanctity of college football regular season (and even then in only one division of college football).

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NBA season is pretty worthless. But I mostly agree with you.

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It's too long for sure, and even I would admit they probably don't eliminate enough teams in the NBA. The MLB season is absurdly long. I blame both of those problems on them trying to squeeze every dime out of the system more than anything.

Does this system reduce the possibility of another around of major realignments in conferences?

I think there is one important reason why college football season is so much better than basketball or baseball that has nothing to do with the type of post-season or regular season.

It's because football is such a better sport than basketball or baseball. At every level.

You could ask the fan of any school at any level, "Your school plays your rival in 15 sports. If you could only win one game, which sport would you choose?" The answer is football for nearly every fan that doesn't have a child, boyfriend/girlfriend, in some other sport.

That doesn't change if there is a playoff trip, county championship, mid-level bowl or nothing else on the line on the outcome of the game.


Football is the king of sports, and it's not really even close. So comparisons to basketball or baseball regular seasons or post-seasons are meaningless. The reason most people aren't interested in those regular seasons is because those sports aren't as interesting for most people.

Aggieair said:

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Saw a lot of news agencies were citing this article today and didn't see a thread on it.

TL/DR: Playoff Expansion working group presents results in July (17th-18th). Board looks at recommendations the week after. All the buzz is about a 12 team bracket. Supposedly the SEC supports this because they think they can get 3-4 teams in every year.

https://sports.yahoo.com/college-football-playoff-expansion-plan-043900023.html

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Every Power 4 conference should be able to get 3-4 in every year

ABATTBQ11 said:

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Aggieair said:

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Saw a lot of news agencies were citing this article today and didn't see a thread on it.

TL/DR: Playoff Expansion working group presents results in July (17th-18th). Board looks at recommendations the week after. All the buzz is about a 12 team bracket. Supposedly the SEC supports this because they think they can get 3-4 teams in every year.

https://sports.yahoo.com/college-football-playoff-expansion-plan-043900023.html

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Every Power 4 conference should be able to get 3-4 in every year

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Might want to check your math on that.

I don't think byes are a good idea in football, the chances of injury are too high, it's too much of an advantage.

However, I would support a play-in for teams that played fewer games than everyone else.

12 is perfect to give the top 4 a bye week.

longeryak said:

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Does this system reduce the possibility of another around of major realignments in conferences?

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Top six conference champions and six next best teams according to the CFP committee rankings get invites. That notionally improves access without guaranteeing anyone anything and doesn't base it on anything specific and doesn't reward larger conferences the way the 12-team conference allowed a conference championship game by NCAA rules.

If it truly results in different conferences getting invites that could (but may not) promote parity. If it does there is the precedent for 10-12 member conferences being able to have CCGs and the favoring of a thirteen-game schedule that includes a CCG win of course.

So any GO5 conferences that don't have ten teams or a CCG may choose to rectify the one shortcoming to allow the CCG. But if you have enough teams a mew dynamic comes into play: how much money will this generate for each conference if they all have equal access? Almost certainly it won't address the disparity between A5 (autonomy) and G5 payouts.

ABATTBQ11 said:

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Aggieair said:

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Saw a lot of news agencies were citing this article today and didn't see a thread on it.

TL/DR: Playoff Expansion working group presents results in July (17th-18th). Board looks at recommendations the week after. All the buzz is about a 12 team bracket. Supposedly the SEC supports this because they think they can get 3-4 teams in every year.

https://sports.yahoo.com/college-football-playoff-expansion-plan-043900023.html

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Every Power 4 conference should be able to get 3-4 in every year

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I guess you glossed over the part where the 6 highest ranked conference champions have autobids.

longeryak said:

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Does this system reduce the possibility of another around of major realignments in conferences?

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No, it exacerbates it. There are five new conferences that a P5 team can now take a temporary pay cut to join, and if they can manage to win against almost all G5 competition for a year or three, they'll become the next Oklahoma (i.e. almost guaranteed playoff entry spot, but never win a playoff game). On top of that, there will effectively be a new power conference resulting from this, and there will probably be a lot of shifts due to that.

16 teams like FCS already works. I don't know why it hasn't been mentioned more.

First 8 games can be at the home site of the higher seed, remaining games can be the NY6 bowls (or have new bowls bid on these), and then a rotating championship site like we have now.

BrotherChad said:

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16 teams like FCS already works. I don't know why it hasn't been mentioned more.

First 8 games can be at the home site of the higher seed, remaining games can be the NY6 bowls (or have new bowls bid on these), and then a rotating championship site like we have now.

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Division I-AA/FCS has a 24-team playoff (non-pandemic years):

10 auto-bids for the conference champions of Big Sky, Big South, CAA, MVFC, NEC, OVC, Patriot League, PFL, SoCon, and SLC and 14 at-large bids for the highest-ranked available teams; top eight get a first-round bye.

Note: Although the Ivy League conference champion is awarded an auto-bid to the Division I-AA/FCS playoffs, the Ivy League abstains citing academic concerns.

Note: The MEAC and SWAC sends their champions to the Celebration Bowl; their runner-ups and below, if ranked high enough, are eligible for at-large bids to the Division I-AA/FCS playoffs.


Opinion: The Ivy League, MEAC, and SWAC should send their champions to the Division I-AA/FCS playoffs instead of abstaining.

BJC said:

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BrotherChad said:

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16 teams like FCS already works. I don't know why it hasn't been mentioned more.

First 8 games can be at the home site of the higher seed, remaining games can be the NY6 bowls (or have new bowls bid on these), and then a rotating championship site like we have now.

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Division I-AA/FCS has a 24-team playoff (non-pandemic years):

10 auto-bids for the conference champions of Big Sky, Big South, CAA, MVFC, NEC, OVC, Patriot League, PFL, SoCon, and SLC and 14 at-large bids for the highest-ranked available teams; top eight get a first-round bye.

Note: Although the Ivy League conference champion is awarded an auto-bid to the Division I-AA/FCS playoffs, the Ivy League abstains citing academic concerns.

Note: The MEAC and SWAC sends their champions to the Celebration Bowl; their runner-ups and below, if ranked high enough, are eligible for at-large bids to the Division I-AA/FCS playoffs.


Opinion: The Ivy League, MEAC, and SWAC should send their champions to the Division I-AA/FCS playoffs instead of abstaining.

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Why should they do that?

ABATTBQ11 said:

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Aggieair said:

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Saw a lot of news agencies were citing this article today and didn't see a thread on it.

TL/DR: Playoff Expansion working group presents results in July (17th-18th). Board looks at recommendations the week after. All the buzz is about a 12 team bracket. Supposedly the SEC supports this because they think they can get 3-4 teams in every year.

https://sports.yahoo.com/college-football-playoff-expansion-plan-043900023.html

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Every Power 4 conference should be able to get 3-4 in every year

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You're delusional

Ugly said:

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longeryak said:

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Does this system reduce the possibility of another around of major realignments in conferences?

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No, it exacerbates it. There are five new conferences that a P5 team can now take a temporary pay cut to join, and if they can manage to win against almost all G5 competition for a year or three, they'll become the next Oklahoma (i.e. almost guaranteed playoff entry spot, but never win a playoff game). On top of that, there will effectively be a new power conference resulting from this, and there will probably be a lot of shifts due to that.

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Texas A&M fans and alums should realize how much value there is in conference affiliation which makes this comment non-sensical. I don't think people realize how different the revenue distribution is between a Sun Belt or even an AAC team and the SEC or even the Big 12. Conference affiliation makes a huge difference.

The SunBelt conference received about $29 million in media revenue, NCAA distributions and post season college football payouts. That's all sports for all schools combined.

The SEC Network payout alone gets each individual school more than that, and it's not even really close. And that's well before adding in ticket revenue, sponsorship, etc.


So I honestly want to hear where you think some AD or big booster is going to say (even to a Big 12 group), "Let's leave the Big 12, join the Sun Belt, for a chance to make the playoffs in football, even if it means going from $36 mm/year in media revenue to less than $2 mm/year, and we are going to take lose another $15 mm/year in ticket sales because we're replacing Texas, OU, and Kansas with Georgia State, App State and South Alabama on all our schedules, but we will be guaranteed a playoff spot in football!!!!"

There's a reason all the AAC schools will jump through a thousand hoops to get to the Big 12. There's just so much more money, and even if it becomes more lucrative to be an AAC or Mtn West member, if any P5 conferences call, any of those schools will join in a heartbeat.

BJC said:

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BrotherChad said:

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16 teams like FCS already works. I don't know why it hasn't been mentioned more.

First 8 games can be at the home site of the higher seed, remaining games can be the NY6 bowls (or have new bowls bid on these), and then a rotating championship site like we have now.

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Division I-AA/FCS has a 24-team playoff (non-pandemic years):

10 auto-bids for the conference champions of Big Sky, Big South, CAA, MVFC, NEC, OVC, Patriot League, PFL, SoCon, and SLC and 14 at-large bids for the highest-ranked available teams; top eight get a first-round bye.

Note: Although the Ivy League conference champion is awarded an auto-bid to the Division I-AA/FCS playoffs, the Ivy League abstains citing academic concerns.

Note: The MEAC and SWAC sends their champions to the Celebration Bowl; their runner-ups and below, if ranked high enough, are eligible for at-large bids to the Division I-AA/FCS playoffs.


Opinion: The Ivy League, MEAC, and SWAC should send their champions to the Division I-AA/FCS playoffs instead of abstaining.

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One big difference between FBS and FCS, D2 and D3 is that those lower divisions to not have near the conference disparity that FBS has. The 5 P5 conferences are so significantly stronger at the top than the G5 schools are, that there is a logical reason to not have all conference champs in the playoffs at the FBS level, whereas in most the lower levels, conferences are much more regional affiliation first. FBS has mostly selected the top from an area in one conference and a second lesser grouping from that same area (Big Ten and MAC, for example, or SEC and Sun Belt)

While I don't think anyone is jumping to the Sun Belt for an easy route, auto bids for conference champions will encourage schools like Texas and OU to stay in a relatively weak Big XII.

Ok - I've changed my mind.

The SEC combines the payout in reporting annual per school numbers and in 2020 for the 2019 FY the distribution was $45.3 million. The new deal that starts in 2024 adds $20 million per school. The SEC Network added about the same per school and was more than half of the total revenue in the 2014-2015 FY distribution an increase of $21 million to a total of $32.7 million. But it includes the first year of CFP revenue which is $66 million when the Sugar pairs best remaining SEC and Big 12 teams after the semis are seeded. That's two of three years and is only $4.4 in Champions Bowl years but declines by $40 million (ignoring escalators) in the non-Champions Bowl years.

So valuing the SEC Network as on order of $29 million per year probably is high by at least 33%.

Source of 2019 FY payout of $45.3 million payout: https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaaf/sec/2020/01/30/sec-generated-721-million-revenue-still-trails-big-ten/2856234001/

Source of $21 million combined additional revenue between CFP and SEC Network in 2014-2015 FY: https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/sec-rakes-in-5274-million-in-first-year-of-cfp-and-sec-network/

Iowaggie said:

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Ugly said:

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longeryak said:

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Does this system reduce the possibility of another around of major realignments in conferences?

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No, it exacerbates it. There are five new conferences that a P5 team can now take a temporary pay cut to join, and if they can manage to win against almost all G5 competition for a year or three, they'll become the next Oklahoma (i.e. almost guaranteed playoff entry spot, but never win a playoff game). On top of that, there will effectively be a new power conference resulting from this, and there will probably be a lot of shifts due to that.

---

Texas A&M fans and alums should realize how much value there is in conference affiliation which makes this comment non-sensical. I don't think people realize how different the revenue distribution is between a Sun Belt or even an AAC team and the SEC or even the Big 12. Conference affiliation makes a huge difference.

The SunBelt conference received about $29 million in media revenue, NCAA distributions and post season college football payouts. That's all sports for all schools combined.

The SEC Network payout alone gets each individual school more than that, and it's not even really close. And that's well before adding in ticket revenue, sponsorship, etc.


So I honestly want to hear where you think some AD or big booster is going to say (even to a Big 12 group), "Let's leave the Big 12, join the Sun Belt, for a chance to make the playoffs in football, even if it means going from $36 mm/year in media revenue to less than $2 mm/year, and we are going to take lose another $15 mm/year in ticket sales because we're replacing Texas, OU, and Kansas with Georgia State, App State and South Alabama on all our schedules, but we will be guaranteed a playoff spot in football!!!!"

There's a reason all the AAC schools will jump through a thousand hoops to get to the Big 12. There's just so much more money, and even if it becomes more lucrative to be an AAC or Mtn West member, if any P5 conferences call, any of those schools will join in a heartbeat.

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Most won't because they prefer money now to money later. However, I guarantee you that if you elevate some G5 conference from their current status to an annual playoff participant you will:

1) Increase conference money directly from playoff participation,
2) Increase viewership for conference games that may impact the playoff, and
3) Create an iterative process where increased conference revenue improves conference facilities and staffing (and now NIL), increasing conference talent, which increases the performance of the conference overall, which increases viewership and playoff participation/success, which increases conference revenue. All of this will reach an upper limit at some point, but that will be a lot closer to the current B12/P12 than the current AAC, as we are now incentivizing 6 major conferences.

If you take into account the fact that the team will be in perfect position to leverage the winnings (e.g. We'll join your conference if we get half the revenue from any playoff appearances), and negotiate schedule (e.g. We're Notre Dame and want to play a G5 schedule with just enough P5 opponents to make everyone think we're a real team. Adjust your rules to let us keep our traditional rivalries and just enough P5 opponents that people can't dismiss us).

I agree that nobody is going to take a $50 mm cut just for some trophies, but if your plan is to take that cut for a year or two, then get double that back in new revenue afterwards, I can see somebody jumping on it.

No. What you're suggesting is equivalent to people that might want A&M to jump back to the B12 because it would be easier to win in football (which is true), but the reason A&M has surged past what they used to be is partly because of the resources and prestige earned by SEC affiliation.

No Big Ten team wants to go to the Big 12, and ALL teams want to "move up" in conference affiliation because of prestige and much greater revenue & resources. You truly are underestimating the disparity in conference resources, even if a conference like the AAC was magically granted automatic qualifier status, it wouldn't matter. If given a choice, between being a lower B12 member or winning the AAC 5 years in a row and going to the playoffs each year, UCF, Cincinnati, and Memphis would take B12 membership everyday, just like Rutgers or Maryland would choose Big Ten over their past conferences.

There is no AD, nor probably even a university president that would survive a choice to downgrade conferences.

AggieJoker90 said:

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Here is the good that I think many are missing. This would be a HUGE break for recruiting.
Think of how many elite players sign with tOSU, BAMA, OU and Clemson because multiple playoff trips are almost a guarantee.

Now this will give those recruits a reason to take a chance on other schools in the conference, which will in turn water down the recruiting for those four schools.

With the current Top 4 set up and Saban re-signing, A&M has an uphill battle matching BAMA's talent level and depth. This can make it more even a whole lot sooner.

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We aren't the only fish in the bowl. There's more fish trying to catch us than we are trying to catch. While it's good for us trying to catch BAMA it's also good for the BDF trying to catch us.

That road runs both ways.

Iowaggie said:

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BJC said:

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BrotherChad said:

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16 teams like FCS already works. I don't know why it hasn't been mentioned more.

First 8 games can be at the home site of the higher seed, remaining games can be the NY6 bowls (or have new bowls bid on these), and then a rotating championship site like we have now.

---

Division I-AA/FCS has a 24-team playoff (non-pandemic years):

10 auto-bids for the conference champions of Big Sky, Big South, CAA, MVFC, NEC, OVC, Patriot League, PFL, SoCon, and SLC and 14 at-large bids for the highest-ranked available teams; top eight get a first-round bye.

Note: Although the Ivy League conference champion is awarded an auto-bid to the Division I-AA/FCS playoffs, the Ivy League abstains citing academic concerns.

Note: The MEAC and SWAC sends their champions to the Celebration Bowl; their runner-ups and below, if ranked high enough, are eligible for at-large bids to the Division I-AA/FCS playoffs.


Opinion: The Ivy League, MEAC, and SWAC should send their champions to the Division I-AA/FCS playoffs instead of abstaining.

---

One big difference between FBS and FCS, D2 and D3 is that those lower divisions to not have near the conference disparity that FBS has. The 5 P5 conferences are so significantly stronger at the top than the G5 schools are, that there is a logical reason to not have all conference champs in the playoffs at the FBS level, whereas in most the lower levels, conferences are much more regional affiliation first. FBS has mostly selected the top from an area in one conference and a second lesser grouping from that same area (Big Ten and MAC, for example, or SEC and Sun Belt)

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Up until early-2010s, Division I-AA/FCS (they are Division I as well) had AQ conferences (their equivalent of Division I-A/FBS' Power Five) and non-AQ (their equivalent of Division I-A/FBS' Group of Five conferences); the AQ conference champions had auto-bids while the non-AQ conference champion had to wait to be ranked in the top 16 to be selected for a playoff spot which has happened occasionally:

• 2005 Cal-Poly (Great West conference co-champion)
• 2006 Coastal Carolina (Big South conference champion)
• 2008 Cal-Poly (Great West conference champion)

Since 2013, all Division I-AA/FCS conference champions, except MEAC and SWAC who abstain in lieu of the Celebration Bowl, are extended an automatic bid to the playoffs. Despite being extended an automatic bid, the Ivy League champion is not allowed to participate in the playoffs due to the Ivy League citing academic reasons.

Division I-A/FBS is in a way following Division I-AA/FCS' lead regarding playoffs albeit on a smaller scale.

Remember when some posters believed schools would leave the Big 12 and join the Sun Belt as an easier route to get to the playoffs?

Well, they were half right.