First four paragraphs only. Staph is free to moderate shorter if desired, of course.

" Knight Commission endorses FBS split from NCAA
1:14 PM CT
Dan Murphy
ESPN Staff Writer

A commission of college athletics leaders recommended Thursday that the best way to repair the NCAA's "broken governance model" is to remove the football teams of the Football Bowl Subdivision from the association, forcing the top level of college football to govern itself as a separate entity.

The Knight Commission, a reform-minded independent group of university presidents, former athletic directors and others, spent the past year studying the current state of college sports before making its recommendation.

After surveying a wide swath of college sports stakeholders, the group said it discovered that many leaders in the industry believe the time has come for significant change. It decided that the most effective way to solve a variety of problems was to separate football -- an outlier of a sport because of the vast and quickly increasing difference in the revenue it generates.

"Every other sport looks like a duck and walks like a duck and probably is a duck," Knight Commission co-chair Arne Duncan told ESPN. "That one [football] looks like a pterodactyl. It's not like the others, and it's had a wildly disproportionate impact on everything else. It doesn't make sense." "

https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/30444422/knight-commission-endorses-fbs-split-ncaa

Funny comparison. Total crack up.

So they basically called it a dinosaur and we all know what happened to those.

FBS should take their Div I Men's BB Tournament with them...

They need to separate out the FBS schools for sure and if you want to compete at the FBS level your AD must field teams in all of these sports (at a minimum- you can have more if you choose):
- football
- basketball (M&W)
- baseball
- softball
- track (M&W)
- volleyball (W)
- soccer (W)
- swimming (M&W)

If you can't field a team to compete in each sport, off to FCS you go.

would removing FBS from the NCAA alleviate the Title IX scholarship issue?

in another words... the football scholarships are n/a for the men vs. women scholarship balancing act

That article does not specify why the change is needed. The P5 programs already have autonomy.

Does anybody know the real political angle of this?

TarponChaser said:

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They need to separate out the FBS schools for sure and if you want to compete at the FBS level your AD must field teams in all of these sports (at a minimum- you can have more if you choose):
- football
- basketball (M&W)
- baseball
- softball
- track (M&W)
- volleyball (W)
- soccer (W)
- swimming (M&W)

If you can't field a team to compete in each sport, off to FCS you go.

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Division 1 membership already requires a minimum of 14 sponsored sports.

I'm not sure what problem you're trying to solve here.

Agsuffering@bulaw said:

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That article does not specify why the change is needed. The P5 programs already have autonomy.

Does anybody know the real political angle of this?

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Their argument is, essentially, that FBS football is too powerful and encroaching on the NCAA's ability to fairly oversee every other sport and to encourage college athletics be equitable. And that FBS' presence is undermining fair competition in other sports. At least that's how they try to portray it in their report.



For example, they make a big deal that the NCAA's distributions to conferences take into account football scholarships even though the NCAA doesn't make money from football and FBS schools---which can grant more scholarships---are also the ones that usually need the money the least.

Its not clear to me why they couldn't just address a lot of problems with incremental, specific rule changes/adjustments---but the Knight Commission's whole "thing" for the past 30 years has been big, sweeping change. Also not clear to me this will actually solve some of the issues they have.

vs.

TXAggie2011 said:

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TarponChaser said:

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They need to separate out the FBS schools for sure and if you want to compete at the FBS level your AD must field teams in all of these sports (at a minimum- you can have more if you choose):
- football
- basketball (M&W)
- baseball
- softball
- track (M&W)
- volleyball (W)
- soccer (W)
- swimming (M&W)

If you can't field a team to compete in each sport, off to FCS you go.

---

Division 1 membership already requires a minimum of 14 sponsored sports.

I'm not sure what problem you're trying to solve here.

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They need to stick to the same ones. Schools like Iowa St. don't play baseball. Make places like Gonzaga compete in football too. All of them put $$$ into the same sports.

Why does pterodactyl start with a p?

Here it is:

The NCAA redistributes revenue from the hoops tournament to all members based on the number of scholarship athletes they have. The NCAA also incurs costs doing what they do (the report spells the details out).

The Knight commission wants the FBS football players to no longer count as "NCAA athletes." The result would be that the NCAA no longer incurs expenses and more importantly, no longer kicks back money to the FBS football programs. The money not getting kicked back to the FBS programs would instead be shared by all the other sports.

The report goes on to say that the G5 are falling further behind the P5.

Anyways, this is more or less what I have been saying for a long time: That half or more of the G5 are not economically viable and should drop down or just end football.

The part that is crap- most of the big basketball earners are also P5. But, the small schools want the money generated by UNC/Duke/Kentucky/Kansas/Michigan St/Indiana/UCLA/etc not kicked back to those athletic departments, or at least kicked back in reduced quantities.

Some poster broke down why the MAC and other crappy athletic departments do not just cut football. Poster said that killing football is a black mark on the resume of an administrator. So in other words, the Knight Commission wants the NCAA to save school administrators from themselves.

Pitiful, but politically expedient.

ETA: 2011, just now saw your post. You covered most of this.

https://www.knightcommission.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/transforming-the-ncaa-d-i-model-recommendations-for-change-1220-01.pdf

TarponChaser said:

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TXAggie2011 said:

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TarponChaser said:

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They need to separate out the FBS schools for sure and if you want to compete at the FBS level your AD must field teams in all of these sports (at a minimum- you can have more if you choose):
- football
- basketball (M&W)
- baseball
- softball
- track (M&W)
- volleyball (W)
- soccer (W)
- swimming (M&W)

If you can't field a team to compete in each sport, off to FCS you go.

---

Division 1 membership already requires a minimum of 14 sponsored sports.

I'm not sure what problem you're trying to solve here.

---

They need to stick to the same ones. Schools like Iowa St. don't play baseball. Make places like Gonzaga compete in football too. All of them put $$$ into the same sports.

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Schools like Gonazag that don't play football aren't in FBS (or FCS). They're just in Division 1.

There's historical and cultural reasons---and associated financial reasons---why schools sponsor the sports they do. I'm still not sure what the problem is.

The "problem" is that the non-fbs don't make enough money. Costs keep rising faster than non-football revenue.

I hinted at this earlier, but I don't think the Knight committee has considered this from the standpoint of the fbs. It has also failed to consider just how much market power the fbs has and how careful the have nots should be before trifling.

IF FBS all completely left the ncaa and set up rival postseasons, the hoops tournament would take a huge financial hit.

The NCAA is a complete and utter joke. If they really wanted to "transform" college athletics they would come up with a plan to keep athletic departments from covering up rape. To put it in language the Knight commission would understand the pterodactyls are raping the ducks at LSU

Make it just the power 5 & we have a deal.

Ag Tag said:

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Why does pterodactyl start with a p?

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Greek word for wing is pteryx I think. Many dinosaur names have Greek roots because that was how they named things way back when.

Back on subject, probably is time to separate governance for football from everything else. Only sport that might and I say might make sense pairing it with would be basketball.

Go one step further, not just FBS should extract themselves from the NCAA, but the Power 5 conferences should extract themselves from the other FBS conferences as well. Troy should not be in the same "division" / level as Alabama, North Texas should not be in the same division as Texas A&M, Akron in the same division as Ohio State, etc., etc., etc.

Knight Commission: college football (which we don't control and still costs is money) is like a pterodactyl and the rest of college athletics are like ducks.

Also Knight Commission: College basketball (a slightly smaller pterodactyl) which pays our salaries and we control is totally fine and belongs in the duck pen.

The P5 need to completely separate from the NCAA, starting with football would be a great start.

Quote:

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"Every other sport looks like a duck and walks like a duck and probably is a duck," Knight Commission co-chair Arne Duncan told ESPN. "That one [football] looks like a pterodactyl. It's not like the others, and it's had a wildly disproportionate impact on everything else. It doesn't make sense." "

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Arne Duncan was the CEO of Chicago Public Schools where he royally screwed up the education for hundreds of thousands of poor Chicago students.

He was then appointed as Sec. of Education by the great Obama, bringing the massive failure that was Common Core education to US public schools, and resigned after several votes of no confidence by national teacher's organizations.

Arne Duncan shouldn't be giving opinions or direction on what type of pencil to use for a scan-tron test let alone messing with the direction of college football.

Propag said:

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Ag Tag said:

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Why does pterodactyl start with a p?

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Greek word for wing is pteryx I think. Many dinosaur names have Greek roots because that was how they named things way back when.

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Dinosaur names have ancient Greek and/or Latin roots because the taxonomic names are all we have for these extinct creatures. We see a feathered critter banging its beak against a tree and we call it woodpecker, and its taxonomic name is Leuconotopicus borealis. No one has ever seen a gigantic lizardlike predator walking on two legs with tiny arms so it doesn't get a common name like "Terror chomper," but scientists give it a name for taxonomy purposes - Tyrannosaurus Rex, latin for "Tyrant Lizard King." That's the only name we have for it.

I cannot believe any current athletic director with an income-producing football program would even consider a proposal that might lead to football being a separate budget from the rest of athletics.

Not going to happen because NCAA Division I football is the only sport that has subdivisions and two Division I football national championships awarded annually:

Division I-FBS (formerly Division I-A)
Division I-FCS (formerly Division I-AA)
Division I-Non football (formerly Division I-AAA)

...while the other sports all NCAA Division I teams compete for the sole NCAA Division I championship in that respective sport that is awarded annually.

TarponChaser said:

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TXAggie2011 said:

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TarponChaser said:

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They need to separate out the FBS schools for sure and if you want to compete at the FBS level your AD must field teams in all of these sports (at a minimum- you can have more if you choose):
- football
- basketball (M&W)
- baseball
- softball
- track (M&W)
- volleyball (W)
- soccer (W)
- swimming (M&W)

If you can't field a team to compete in each sport, off to FCS you go.

---

Division 1 membership already requires a minimum of 14 sponsored sports.

I'm not sure what problem you're trying to solve here.

---

They need to stick to the same ones. Schools like Iowa St. don't play baseball. Make places like Gonzaga compete in football too. All of them put $$$ into the same sports.

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Besides the fact that Gonzaga isn't an FBS school, this is just unnecessary legislation. If Iowa State wants wrestling instead of baseball, that's fine. Wrestling makes money for them, and baseball didn't. Why have track and swimming, anyways?

The involvement of outside lawmakers and NCAA legislation is not beneficial to athletic programs.

And as mentioned already, it should be the P5 football schools that separate, and I would suggest no games played against G5 schools.

Not a bad idea.

NFL will have a say in this.

I thought I had also read somewhere several years ago that small schools keep football because even the bad programs make money (think six/seven figure paydays to play bigger programs OOC). I remember reading it around the time UConn was winning one of their men's BB titles. The football team was terrible, but it was discussing how crazy it was that their terrible football team still made more money than their elite basketball team.

Pretty simple concept:

Top 64 college programs

• 4 conferences
• 8 divisions (2 per conference)
• Division winners play in conference championships
• 8 team playoff (only way to validate true winner due to conferences being mis-matched)

College Football becomes minor-league for NFL.

More TV revenue, better player support.

The one issue would be where do you draw the line on 64? Teams like Baylor or Tech would be on the chopping block. Not that I care. But there would have to be a bottom tier play in and play out every year.

This has to happen because Power 5 (4- the Big 12) is too big for the NCA to wrangle.

ccolley68 said:

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I thought I had also read somewhere several years ago that small schools keep football because even the bad programs make money (think six/seven figure paydays to play bigger programs OOC). I remember reading it around the time UConn was winning one of their men's BB titles. The football team was terrible, but it was discussing how crazy it was that their terrible football team still made more money than their elite basketball team.

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Football doesn't make money at most schools.

As for UConn specifically, I'm skeptical they're making money on a year-to-year basis. I'm also skeptical they're making more money than basketball. It is more complicated than the below numbers, and I don't think football is actually losing $13 million a year, but it still shows how expensive football is to sponsor and it is very likely football is losing money at UConn every year.

Football must be heavily subsidized by student fees at most places. Most places should drop down to d3 or just drop football. They do not for political reasons.

It's hard to tell from the UConn numbers how they drive donations both in the Athletics and academics side. I think the reckoning that changes everything is that college degrees provide less (and in many cases) no economic value than they used to. A problem of the fact they used to signal intellectual advantage and don't really. College is like high school with even more grade inflation and flat out corruption.

Students this year aren't going. The world goes on...