Thoughts?

D3 much??

Why?

Athletic scholarships almost always come from athletics departments (separate money pool) and offer thousands of kids the opportunity to attend college that they may not have otherwise.

Personally, as a non-athlete my college experience was in large part shaped by being a member of the 12th man at all sorts of events football/hoops/soccer/volleyball/baseball/etc.

And football/basketball especially are huge advertising boons for the university, look at how much free press A&M got when we joined the SEC and JFF won a Heisman.

Compared to whatever costs I contributed as a student and now as a former student, I think from a personal entertainment perspective as well as a "helping kids get a degree" perspective it's been a great return on investment.

e.busche said:

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And football/basketball especially are huge advertising boons for the university...

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This part kills me. I recently heard from a friend's kid that said they were going to study business at Alabama or Oklahoma because of their football program.

Don't need to remove scholarships, but I'd rather have athletes not getting scholarships than getting paid on top of their scholarship.

As someone who played college ball/baseball I personally believe they should stay. The amount of work that goes into being a division 1 athlete is more than a 40 hr job. It is very difficult to juggle athletics and academics with the demands that sports puts on You. It would be nearly impossible to do both and have a side job. The vast majority of athletes understand how amazing it is to have these types of opportunities don't let a few bad apples on our football and track team skew your view point on most of them. Most are extremely thankful for the opportunity and realize it's an honor.

No.

Is not the Univ in the education business, not being feeder institutions for NFL, NBA, MLB? Just curious what others thoughts on this are? As good ole Jimbo says..."It aint like it used to be"?

Less than 2% of college athletes go pro. And much fewer will have pro sports careers that last a meaningful length.

I wouldn't eliminate athletic scholarships, but it's another area that needs a correction

I am all for the incremental adjustments the NCAA and some of its member schools have made to require high school athletes to achieve incrementally better academic results to play college sports.

That's using sports as a lever to further education.

Also, is there any valid reason for athletes to get preferential treatment as far as entrance requirements and course work? I think we need to get woke here..

As it presently is done, is the recruiting process in the best interest of the student athletes?

Spyderman said:

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Also, is there any valid reason for athletes to get preferential treatment as far as entrance requirements and course work? I think we need to get woke here..

As it presently is done, is the recruiting process in the best interest of the student athletes?

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I think the recruiting process has grown out of hand, but the NCAA has taken some minor steps to try to improve the process. In short, I'm of the strong opinion the process has grown too long and too intense. I believe they should continue to take action to limit recruiting of athletes until later in high school, and increase dead periods and periods of limited contact.


As far as entrance requirements, as I said above, I'm all for making incremental increases in entrance requirements. I don't think you can push that too hard, too quickly. As it is, athletics is the ticket for many kids to get into good universities and get educations.


I'd love to create a system which encourages athletes to, on the whole, take on harder educational work loads and get into some more difficult degree programs. At the end of the day, its their choice and if they want to take on a perfectly valid degree program that's "easy", then what are you gonna do about it? Unless they further limit practice time and institute some other regulations, its going to be hard for even some pretty smart and driven athletes to maintain a chemical engineering course load and live up to athletics requirements.

The system is far from perfect, but I wouldn't blow it up.

As it is, athletics is the ticket for many kids to get into good universities and get educations.

But, is this fair?

Athletic scholarships are fine. But admission standards should be the same for everybody at the school. If a school wants to lower it's academic reputation to have a good football program then that's their choice.

Then scholarships should also be given to kids that sing well, cook well or have other abilities?

Wait,

You would rather not give any money than pay kids plus give scholarships?

Do you know how many poor kids cannot go to school without giant loans unless they get these schollies?

This is just stupid and glad it is not up to you.

They are for kids who sing well, play good instruments, are smart and had great grades, and some kids get them because they have good grades and their parents are broke.

Not sure about cooking.

They are just on the academic side of the funding.

At this point I'd be fine with college and HS sports going away altogether, which is a complete 180 from what I would have thought a few years ago.

We're building $75MM dollar stadiums for 18 year olds who can barely read.

I get being upset about building multi-million dollar stadiums.... But of course it would be silly to get rid of amateur sports altogether at the high school and college level.

Just don't build the ridiculous stadiums that that are complete money pits- like Allen.

If taxpayers vote for bonds to pay for stadiums, that is very much their business. I think the quality of the build was where folks really looked at it as a mistake. It's always frustrating when you spend a lot of money only to look at a repaired site for 30-50 years.

I reviewed the second video to see how the repaired venue looked. They added some very significant superstructure to "repair" the poor design. It's clunky but hopefully effective. And none of it was paid for as an additional cost item by the district (or so it was claimed.)

https://www.forbes.com/sites/bobcook/2012/08/13/why-allen-texas-built-a-60-million-high-school-football-stadium/#17972876e710

Aston04 said:

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I get being upset about building multi-million dollar stadiums.... But of course it would be silly to get rid of amateur sports altogether at the high school and college level.

Just don't build the ridiculous stadiums that that are complete money pits- like Allen.

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So, what authority do you think should tell local tax payers how to spend their money?

e.busche said:

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Athletic scholarships almost always come from athletics departments (separate money pool) and offer thousands of kids the opportunity to attend college that they may not have otherwise.

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Depends on state law. Texas requires state school's athletic departments to be self supporting with oversight from the school administration That does not effect the private schools like Rice, Baylor, TCU, and SMU. In Louisiana, the athletic departments are an actual part of the school systems and are not a separate operating entity, if I recall correctly. I believe this is also true of the California schools.

Please let's quit beating around the bush here. It is the football forum. I will direct my comments to college football programs. They will most likely apply to basketball programs and maybe, but less so, to baseball. They will have little to no relevance to other college sports.

Sometime ago someone took the "student" out of student athletes. Admissions standards all but collapsed. Personal tutors were employed to "assist" these so called students. In some cases, assistance was liberally interpreted. In the process, a whole lot of fraud, graft and corruption wormed its way into college football and its programs. I now feel about college football players the way I feel about Olympians, who were once amateurs. They train in the USA, go to USA colleges, and represent some country other than the USA.

I believe in a four year athletic scholarship programs, IF, the admissions standards are the same for athletes as they are for all other students. I would kill the redshirt program. You have four years. If you want to lay out a year fine, no scholarship if you are not playing. If you want to leave early and make your millions in the NFL, fine pay the scholarship back.

Now many of you have rightly suggested that football is the face, almost the marketing program of colleges. I believe that to return the programs to a true student athlete event would increase their popularity not diminish it. At one time, this was exactly the case. The off field antics of athletes, who apparently have extra time on their hands, is not enhancing anything that I can identify. To the contrary, it is calling into question the complete range of support people have given college sports.

There are those that say these "kids" need scholarship to go to college. I know a little bit about scholarships, loans and the availability of monies from all kinds of sources to assist prospective students. Today, if you want a college education you can get one. It may not be at your first choice, but you can get a college education.

Some people are great athletes but poor students. Fine, it is time for the NFL to create its own farm club teams. Actually, I think there would be a market for games amongst good athletes who are trying to get to the big leagues. A lot of smaller towns would welcome the chance to have a team. Plus, we would free up seats for kids that are real students. Everything would return to a level playing field.....each student would actually take the test, write their own papers and turn in their own work. If you don't believe these type of shenanigans don't occur you are very naive.

Cut out the fraud and hypocrisy. Let the billionaire NFL owners train the players of tomorrow and quit corrupting what is supposed to be an educational system. Our team would actually be Aggies who know the Spirit. They would not be people just passing through a zip code on their way to the NFL.

Aquin said:

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Please let's quit beating around the bush here. It is the football forum. I will direct my comments to college football programs. They will most likely apply to basketball programs and maybe, but less so, to baseball. They will have little to no relevance to other college sports.

Sometime ago someone took the "student" out of student athletes. Admissions standards all but collapsed. Personal tutors were employed to "assist" these so called students. In some cases, assistance was liberally interpreted. In the process, a whole lot of fraud, graft and corruption wormed its way into college football and its programs. I now feel about college football players the way I feel about Olympians, who were once amateurs. They train in the USA, go to USA colleges, and represent some country other than the USA.

I believe in a four year athletic scholarship programs, IF, the admissions standards are the same for athletes as they are for all other students. I would kill the redshirt program. You have four years. If you want to lay out a year fine, no scholarship if you are not playing. If you want to leave early and make your millions in the NFL, fine pay the scholarship back.

Now many of you have rightly suggested that football is the face, almost the marketing program of colleges. I believe that to return the programs to a true student athlete event would increase their popularity not diminish it. At one time, this was exactly the case. The off field antics of athletes, who apparently have extra time on their hands, is not enhancing anything that I can identify. To the contrary, it is calling into question the complete range of support people have given college sports.

There are those that say these "kids" need scholarship to go to college. I know a little bit about scholarships, loans and the availability of monies from all kinds of sources to assist prospective students. Today, if you want a college education you can get one. It may not be at your first choice, but you can get a college education.

Some people are great athletes but poor students. Fine, it is time for the NFL to create its own farm club teams. Actually, I think there would be a market for games amongst good athletes who are trying to get to the big leagues. A lot of smaller towns would welcome the chance to have a team. Plus, we would free up seats for kids that are real students. Everything would return to a level playing field.....each student would actually take the test, write their own papers and turn in their own work. If you don't believe these type of shenanigans don't occur you are very naive.

Cut out the fraud and hypocrisy. Let the billionaire NFL owners train the players of tomorrow and quit corrupting what is supposed to be an educational system. Our team would actually be Aggies who know the Spirit. They would not be people just passing through a zip code on their way to the NFL.

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Great post. I feel the same way. The system has been out of control for a while

Scholarships play an important part in the educational process and should be an incentive.

But this current "crisis" exposes and debunks the argument that players should get paid above and beyond an educational scholarship when such a high percentage of the "revenue" is DONOR based, and not athletic performance!

BTHO tu forever!!!

greg.w.h said:

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If taxpayers vote for bonds to pay for stadiums, that is very much their business.




Ao

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I don't trust the public to make wise financial decisions- nationality or even locally. That stadium is stupid wasteful. That giant bond for a sports showpiece isn't free money. Homeowners bake in the cost of the tax on their mortgage escrow accounts and they don't feel the pain of paying that annual stupid tax.

Yes, my FIRST preference is for kids to get scholarships and no extra money for endorsements.

My SECOND preference is for there to be no scholarships and the kids playing for the team actually want to be at that school and play for it.

My THIRD preference is for students to get scholarships AND paid endorsements to where kids are choosing schools based on who will pay them the most. We already have the NFL/NBA/MLB if that's your thing.

I'm also 100% for removing all restrictions to going to the pros. Let the kids that want to go to college do that, and let the kids that want to go pro do that. But I don't want to see "professional athletes" playing for colleges.

If a kid really is poor, that scholarship can be life-changing for generations to come if they choose to take advantage of it. My grandpa had to turn down a triple athletic scholarship in football/baseball/basketball to take care of his sick mom and continued to live in a house with a dirt floor. But he made dang sure that every one of his kids had the opportunity to go to college, and that one decision put my entire family on a completely different path for generations. That was the difference between a life of gangs, violence, and fear and a life in the middle and upper middle class. That's what I want for the athletes playing for A&M (and the other students too), and that's what I had been willing to pay for in the past. But if kids can get paid, that means there's plenty of money to cover their expenses and they don't need my money anymore. Make it so that an athlete only gets to keep the money after he's reimbursed the school for his scholarship and all expenses including the use of elite facilities and coaching and I'd be willing to reconsider.

Without scholarships, NCAA football goes straight to hell, and just like with basketball, the NFL will be joining the NBA in drafting right out of high school!

It'll never happen ~ the NCAA absolutely will not concede its cash cow!

AggieDad74 said:

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Without scholarships, NCAA football goes straight to hell, and just like with basketball, the NFL will be joining the NBA in drafting right out of high school!

It'll never happen ~ the NCAA absolutely will not concede its cash cow!

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Football is not the NCAA's cash cow. Speaking strictly about the NCAA, they make nearly all of their money off of March Madness.

That's not super relevant to the conversation, but figured I'd point it out.

He clearly meant the schools in the NCAA Poindexter

Showstopper said:

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He clearly meant the schools in the NCAA Poindexter

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Maybe. Or, as happens all the time here, maybe not.

Spyderman said:

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Thoughts?

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• Create a minor league football system the feeds the NFL
• Eliminate athletic scholarships - mimic the Ivy League
• Focus on academics

Quote:

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I believe in a four year athletic scholarship programs, IF, the admissions standards are the same for athletes as they are for all other students. I would kill the redshirt program. You have four years. If you want to lay out a year fine, no scholarship if you are not playing. If you want to leave early and make your millions in the NFL, fine pay the scholarship back.

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That seems pretty arbitrary and cutting red shirts seems to me, at first blush, unlikely the solve anything regarding dedication of athletes to being students.

First, I think athletes would be less likely to take on more rigorous course work, minors, etc. knowing they only have 4 years unless they can pay their own way. We want to encourage them to treat academics like a regular student, not the opposite. We want to encourage them to finish degrees, not leave before they can finish.

Second, I don't think athletes would shift their focus to academics. They just won't redshirt and be replaced by another athlete after 4 years. Schools will just roll through more athletes, not fewer or more academically dedicated students. (And I don't think repaying a scholarship, especially at a public school, will be much of an incentive for an athlete to forgo a multi-million pro contract.)

Third, redshirts don't skew in the direction of the star athlete who is on campus to bide their time. They skew towards athletes who know the pros aren't a foregone conclusion. Coaches will have less confidence bringing in the "develop-able" kids. (And you certainly won't get stories of the hard-working walk-on who earned his way onto a scholarship, in part by taking advantage of an extra year to work hard and prove themselves.)

In this new world, it is certainly not fair to the athletically challenged.