HighwaySix said:

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To those who don't like Sully, Highway 6 runs both ways.

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Nobody likes that guy who speaks in the third person.

If you have not see the report, TAMU Systems Chancellor Sharp pledged $100,000 toward a statue honoring Senator Matthew Gaines, who became Washington County's first black state senator. He was instrumental in the 12th Legislature's passage of Senate Bill 276 which created the Agricultural and Mechanical College of Texas under the Land Grant College Act of 1862.

He and Ross both faced challenges but were advocates for public education and were both able to do great things for A&M.

So why don't you take some time away from arguing about whether to remove the Ross statue and make a donation to the fund for the Gaines statue. With Sharp's pledge I believe the total is within $100,000 of the $350,000 estimated cost.

Maybe we can put the statues of these two imperfect men next to each other. Perhaps they will get along and be an example to all of us?

TAM85 said:

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If you have not see the report, TAMU Systems Chancellor Sharp pledged $100,000 toward a statue honoring Senator Matthew Gaines, who became Washington County's first black state senator. He was instrumental in the 12th Legislature's passage of Senate Bill 276 which created the Agricultural and Mechanical College of Texas under the Land Grant College Act of 1862.

He and Ross both faced challenges but were advocates for public education and were both able to do great things for A&M.

So why don't you take some time away from arguing about whether to remove the Ross statue and make a donation to the fund for the Gaines statue. With Sharp's pledge I believe the total is within $100,000 of the $350,000 estimated cost.

Maybe we can put the statues of these two imperfect men next to each other. Perhaps they will get along and be an example to all of us?

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The university is flush with money, they are going to spend $100 million on "diversity issues" to the $350,000 is a drop in the bucket.

So do we take it down and replace it with one of the black people that owned slaves?

Making national news:

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaaf/2020/06/17/texas-a-m-qb-kellen-mond-advocates-removal-sully-statue/3204526001/

Same thing I said in the Mond thread.

If the players think that little of me as an alumni and as a fan, then I think even less of them as an asset to our team. I used go want the best for all of our guys and hoped they would be successful on our field and maybe even do well in the pros if they got a shot.

Now, I find myself not really caring if they succeed or fail. I may just spend more of my Saturdays fishing and golfing this fall than watching a bunch of over-privileged kids playing a sport i used to be passionate about.

Ragnar Danneskjoldd said:

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Quote:

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The Houston Chronicle has weighed in.

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They also said A&M was racist for only interviewing mike sherman, so.......

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Who cares...got Johnny...

I feel like all these liberal Aggies are like bots or something because I can't imagine any Aggies being...ew. Kids will be kids. They'll end up conservative after they've lived life longer and have kids and things of their own they actually want to protect.

Maroon Dawn said:

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Do none of the folks calling for the statues removal get that there would be no A&M without him?

If the guy who literally saved the school from closing doesn't get a statue then who does?

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They are calling for the removal of the Washington monument and the Jefferson memorial too. We would literally not have a country without those two men's contribution to its founding. There isn't any logic in removing statues, particularly when they are not intended to honor or glorify the confederacy (which I actually don't mind seeing replaced with statues that acknowledge and educate instead).

The history of slavery is complex. Blacks sold each other into slavery, whites were sold in slavery. Discrimination in our country, particularly early on occurred against blacks, Irish (who were often called n-words turned inside out), Jews, Polish, etc. Focusing on statues, reparations, etc doesn't address the issue and doesn't move the needle which is what most people truly want. Let's focus on real issues surrounding race relations and move on/above this.

Why isn't anyone wanting to go tear up all the rail road tracks across this country? You want to really erase racial history, destroy things literally built on the backs of slaves. Or do we need to wait for more Chinese people to get shot?

AstroPete said:

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I feel like all these liberal Aggies are like bots or something because I can't imagine any Aggies being...ew. Kids will be kids. They'll end up conservative after they've lived life longer and have kids and things of their own they actually want to protect.

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Funny, only the opposite has happened to me as i get older. Perhaps I learned to stop focusing only on myself.

cajunaggie08 said:

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AstroPete said:

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I feel like all these liberal Aggies are like bots or something because I can't imagine any Aggies being...ew. Kids will be kids. They'll end up conservative after they've lived life longer and have kids and things of their own they actually want to protect.

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Funny, only the opposite has happened to me as i get older. Perhaps I learned to stop focusing only on myself.

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You must be extremely rich or extremely...well something else.

cajunaggie08 said:

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AstroPete said:

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I feel like all these liberal Aggies are like bots or something because I can't imagine any Aggies being...ew. Kids will be kids. They'll end up conservative after they've lived life longer and have kids and things of their own they actually want to protect.

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Funny, only the opposite has happened to me as i get older. Perhaps I learned to stop focusing only on myself.

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This needs clarification. As a small business owner, I am responsible for the livelihoods of 31 other people besides myself. The policies of the left would make it harder to do business, harder to support my employees, and harder to keep my doors open. I spend most of every day thinking about others and how I can innovate and improve the services I provide to support my people (we are an employee owned company).

Don't take potshots bud.

cajunaggie08 said:

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AstroPete said:

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I feel like all these liberal Aggies are like bots or something because I can't imagine any Aggies being...ew. Kids will be kids. They'll end up conservative after they've lived life longer and have kids and things of their own they actually want to protect.

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Funny, only the opposite has happened to me as i get older. Perhaps I learned to stop focusing only on myself.

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Do not ever say that the desire to 'do good' by force is a good motive.

Tex Aggie said:

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I don't understand why Coach would allow these players to have social media
You're a representative of the university who pays your scholarship.

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so what youre saying is that they should just go out and dance for your amusement? is that what you are saying?

Gidnik said:

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Tex Aggie said:

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I don't understand why Coach would allow these players to have social media
You're a representative of the university who pays your scholarship.

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so what youre saying is that they should just go out and dance for your amusement? is that what you are saying?

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What else are they than entertainment for the fanbase.

Of course they are.

Players cover for each other like cops do. It's a family thang.

I bet most of them wouldn't know Sully if his head fell off and crushed them while they're toppling his statue.

Age is not relevant here, so I have no clue why you brought that up. Maybe you were just trying to be dismissive without having to present any compelling argument or information. You can try and say my views of events in his life and his actions are influenced by presentism, but you cannot say that the views of people during his own time were. People like Ross were way behind the rest of world on their views of race and slavery at the time, that is why there was the whole Civil War to begin with. His involvement at Peace River also can not be dismissed as presentism either. He descriptions of events painted it as a glorious victory and a major defeat of the Comanches, and he used it to springboard his career. Others who were present recognized it as a slaughter of non-combatants and described it as such. If other people at the same time were able recognize the actions as wrong, then presentism does not apply. The idea that the standard did not exist at the time is ludicrous. People left the state of Texas and enrolled in the Union army because they disagreed with the idea is secession and disagreed with what the confederates were doing, but not Ross.

Aggie_Swag18 said:

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Age is not relevant here, so I have no clue why you brought that up. Maybe you were just trying to be dismissive without having to present any compelling argument or information. You can try and say my views of events in his life and his actions are influenced by presentism, but you cannot say that the views of people during his own time were. People like Ross were way behind the rest of world on their views of race and slavery at the time, that is why there was the whole Civil War to begin with. His involvement at Peace River also can not be dismissed as presentism either. He descriptions of events painted it as a glorious victory and a major defeat of the Comanches, and he used it to springboard his career. Others who were present recognized it as a slaughter of non-combatants and described it as such. If other people at the same time were able recognize the actions as wrong, then presentism does not apply. The idea that the standard did not exist at the time is ludicrous. People left the state of Texas and enrolled in the Union army because they disagreed with the idea is secession and disagreed with what the confederates were doing, but not Ross.

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Lots of revisionist history there. And a lack of historical perspective. Short on accuracy as well.

The group that Mack is complaining about are more than likely ones that pay for Jimbo and got Mack into the NFL.

samhoustonag said:

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Aggie_Swag18 said:

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Age is not relevant here, so I have no clue why you brought that up. Maybe you were just trying to be dismissive without having to present any compelling argument or information. You can try and say my views of events in his life and his actions are influenced by presentism, but you cannot say that the views of people during his own time were. People like Ross were way behind the rest of world on their views of race and slavery at the time, that is why there was the whole Civil War to begin with. His involvement at Peace River also can not be dismissed as presentism either. He descriptions of events painted it as a glorious victory and a major defeat of the Comanches, and he used it to springboard his career. Others who were present recognized it as a slaughter of non-combatants and described it as such. If other people at the same time were able recognize the actions as wrong, then presentism does not apply. The idea that the standard did not exist at the time is ludicrous. People left the state of Texas and enrolled in the Union army because they disagreed with the idea is secession and disagreed with what the confederates were doing, but not Ross.

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Lots of revisionist history there. And a lack of historical perspective. Short on accuracy as well.

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What revisionist history? Was there not a large movement to abolish slavery at the time? Or are you trying to say they did not kill anyone at Pease River? You're going to have to elaborate and present facts rather than just making stuff up to dismiss anything that fits your opinions.

Aggie_Swag18 said:

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samhoustonag said:

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Aggie_Swag18 said:

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Age is not relevant here, so I have no clue why you brought that up. Maybe you were just trying to be dismissive without having to present any compelling argument or information. You can try and say my views of events in his life and his actions are influenced by presentism, but you cannot say that the views of people during his own time were. People like Ross were way behind the rest of world on their views of race and slavery at the time, that is why there was the whole Civil War to begin with. His involvement at Peace River also can not be dismissed as presentism either. He descriptions of events painted it as a glorious victory and a major defeat of the Comanches, and he used it to springboard his career. Others who were present recognized it as a slaughter of non-combatants and described it as such. If other people at the same time were able recognize the actions as wrong, then presentism does not apply. The idea that the standard did not exist at the time is ludicrous. People left the state of Texas and enrolled in the Union army because they disagreed with the idea is secession and disagreed with what the confederates were doing, but not Ross.

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Lots of revisionist history there. And a lack of historical perspective. Short on accuracy as well.

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What revisionist history? Was there not a large movement to abolish slavery at the time? Or are you trying to say they did not kill anyone at Pease River? You're going to have to elaborate and present facts rather than just making stuff up to dismiss anything that fits your opinions.

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Says the person who provided not one source, even when others have provided contemporaneous accounts that dispute your racist "presentism" blather?

MiniShrike said:

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Aggie_Swag18 said:

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samhoustonag said:

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Aggie_Swag18 said:

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Age is not relevant here, so I have no clue why you brought that up. Maybe you were just trying to be dismissive without having to present any compelling argument or information. You can try and say my views of events in his life and his actions are influenced by presentism, but you cannot say that the views of people during his own time were. People like Ross were way behind the rest of world on their views of race and slavery at the time, that is why there was the whole Civil War to begin with. His involvement at Peace River also can not be dismissed as presentism either. He descriptions of events painted it as a glorious victory and a major defeat of the Comanches, and he used it to springboard his career. Others who were present recognized it as a slaughter of non-combatants and described it as such. If other people at the same time were able recognize the actions as wrong, then presentism does not apply. The idea that the standard did not exist at the time is ludicrous. People left the state of Texas and enrolled in the Union army because they disagreed with the idea is secession and disagreed with what the confederates were doing, but not Ross.

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Lots of revisionist history there. And a lack of historical perspective. Short on accuracy as well.

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What revisionist history? Was there not a large movement to abolish slavery at the time? Or are you trying to say they did not kill anyone at Pease River? You're going to have to elaborate and present facts rather than just making stuff up to dismiss anything that fits your opinions.

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Says the person who provided not one source, even when others have provided contemporaneous accounts that dispute your racist "presentism" blather?

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I've cited numerous sources in other posts, I shouldn't have to keep repeating them. Look at primary sources, accounts by people who were present at the Pease River. The accounts of people who were present there had very different takes on the events than what Ross had. He painted it as "The fruits of this important victory can never be computed in dollars and cents." That was an excerpt taken from a letter he wrote. H.B Rodgers described the events as "I was in the Pease River fight, but I am not proud of it. That was not a battle at all, just a killing of squaws." What account disputes this? I'm sure I won't need to cite any sources for there being a movement to abolish slavery. If I need to do that there is no hope for you. If you want to see other peoples reactions to the Confederacy and and conscription for the Civil War in Texas just start looking for anything related to peoples opposition to the war. Many of the immigrants opposed slavery, and some fled to fight for the Union. Look at anything related to Czech or German history in Texas at the time and you will have plenty of sources.

You jump midway into a conversation and act like you know everything. So calm down and stop acting like an internet tough guy.

https://texags.com/forums/16/topics/3119129/1#discussion

I call for Texas A&M athletics to be taken down, instead.

The Texas A&M I loved and attended no longer exists. I long for the days when only those who really loved and cared for Texas A&M attended and graduated from my alma mater.

Aggieland has gone to hell in a handbasket in the past decade. I hate that my beloved alma mater has been transitioned to a degree mill with the intent to pass out graduations and Aggie rings simply to fill a ginormous football stadium with students and alumni while also increasing alumni contributions to the Association of Former Students and to the 12th Man Foundation.

Honestly. That isn't a bad idea

What organization steals labor the most in modern day America?

The NCAA.

I agree. Take it down.

Sterling82 said:

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I don't care if they're Rhodes scholars or barely scraping by. Someone in authority needs to say we're not tearing down a statue of a former president who built the standing of this university! Period! End of discussion!

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Just FYI there will be no more Rhodes Scholars going forward in this absolute clown world.

Charlie Murphy said:

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Have any of them addressed Sharps message on Ross' history with Prairie View and some of the other relevant issues? Or are they just following the virtue signaling trend?

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Mmmmmm. Did you not read the article? Mond posted Sully could have integrated the schools, but he didn't.

cajunaggie08 said:

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AstroPete said:

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I feel like all these liberal Aggies are like bots or something because I can't imagine any Aggies being...ew. Kids will be kids. They'll end up conservative after they've lived life longer and have kids and things of their own they actually want to protect.

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Funny, only the opposite has happened to me as i get older. Perhaps I learned to stop focusing only on myself.

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Ditto....

How about a compromise? Do people remember that word and those days?

1. Sully was a confederate general and also killed settlers of African-Americans, Native Indians, and other races
2. It sounds like he had a change of heart for his actions.

Compromise: Don't get rid of the statue but move Sully from the middle of the campus to another area not so symbolic. Not to a basement but possibly around the Corps area (maybe by the old Bonfar site) who really are the keepers of tradition anyways. Have an inscription on the statue that Basically he was a confederate general that committed atrocities not represented by the school but also changed his ideas and committed himself to said change.

Personally I would like to take it down. Statues are symbols of groups and civilizations. We give them tribute. I don't want to be represented by his actions but I do give him credit for his change of heart. BUT IT'S ALSO NOT ALL ABOUT ME...