Maroon Dawn said:

---

technoviking said:

---

So you're saying we should burn it all down?

---

I'm saying that when you create a culture that demands the combination of these attitudes of

"We have to give the AD our money every year no matter how bad the results"

With

"Aww shucks coach, we just want you to run a clean program and "get" A&M"

Then how can you be surprised when the result is hanging on to bad/mediocre coaches who produce bad/mediocre results for years and years past time to fire them?

I'm not saying Jimbo needs to be fired, the jury is still out on him and Buzz but that's the basic of our big 3 Men's sports. Hell baseball is still hanging onto a guy who is mediocrity incarnate because he gets us to regionals

---

Jimbo was an outside the box hire. Unless you know something I don't.

Maroon Dawn said:

---

Did you ever stop to think that maybe this culture of demanding unconditional support for the teams and coaches no matter how bad to mediocre the results on the field/court is the reason WHY all our men's teams but T&F are all so piss poor despite all the money we pour into them?

---

Why are all the conditional supporters still *****ing on Texags? I hear there are many other fun activities in Houston or Dallas that you could occupy your time with?

twk said:

---

Maroon Dawn said:

---

Did you ever stop to think that maybe this culture of demanding unconditional support for the teams and coaches no matter how bad to mediocre the results on the field/court is the reason WHY all our men's teams but T&F are all so piss poor despite all the money we pour into them?

---

Dumbest thing ever said on Texags. Take solace form the fact that you aren't the first to say it. Blaming the fans is absolutely insane, and saying that it's because we're too forgiving is laughable.

---

So you're saying we don't demand unconditional support despite the results or hang onto bad coaches too long because they're such nice guys?

Quote:

---

"We have to give the AD our money every year no matter how bad the results"

---

Yes, starving the AD of funds will make things better. That's the solution we've been looking for.

Your post is just another version of, "If all of you were as red ass as me, we'd be winning." It's a dumb argument. You can't salvage it. Better to let this thread die a slow death than keep digging.

Okay

So if tolerating mediocrity in the name of "being a good Ag" isn't the problem then what is?

Zoo...filled with self-loathing for themselves and their school.

Just stop. SDS is just saying ***** It has zero basis in objective reality. Wearing their curses or cursing out fellow Aggies and going back to the Highway 6 runs both ways nonsense IS nonsense.

Let's all agree we aren't going to blame fans or students for poor performance by sports teams. Let's agree that attendance is a result of marketing and the entire schtivk that is real about Texas A&M has zero to do with sports.

Once we start trying to make our school into an athletics powerhouse through the symbolism that makes it unique we turn it into a cult. We can be boosters and enjoy traditions without being a cult. Let's start now.

Maroon Dawn said:

---

Okay

So if tolerating mediocrity in the name of "being a good Ag" isn't the problem then what is?

---

It's not a matter of identifying the problem. There is no simple solution. You talk about some attitude supposedly holding us down in every sport, but you're really just grasping at straws looking for a simple solution.

The football team lost Saturday because it got whipped at the line of scrimmage. We've got some talent, but we've still got a lot of holes, and Auburn did a very good job of exploiting them. That roster we ran out there was five years in the making. If Jimbo is the coach we hope he is, it probably won't take him that long to turn it around, but it's going to take longer than one year. That much is evidence. Paying Sumlin a huge buyout, then stepping up to pay the best available coach $7.5 million per year for 10 years, after having spent half a billion on facilities is about all you can ask of the fan base. The rest is up to the guys we hired to get the job done. If they don't, we'll get somebody else, but the measuring stick for that isn't 1.3 seasons.

So you agree its also asinine to whine about the fans not staying and watching the train wreck display of awful football that was Saturday either?

I'm saying they had every right to walk out on that pitiful display and not give into the attitude of "gee golly willikers guys! We have to stay to 00:00 or we're bad fans!"

Maroon Dawn said:

---

twk said:

---

Maroon Dawn said:

---

Did you ever stop to think that maybe this culture of demanding unconditional support for the teams and coaches no matter how bad to mediocre the results on the field/court is the reason WHY all our men's teams but T&F are all so piss poor despite all the money we pour into them?

---

Dumbest thing ever said on Texags. Take solace form the fact that you aren't the first to say it. Blaming the fans is absolutely insane, and saying that it's because we're too forgiving is laughable.

---

So you're saying we don't demand unconditional support despite the results or hang onto bad coaches too long because they're such nice guys?

---

I'm saying that you stay until the end of the game. This used to be a common practice and we used to be much worse than we are today. Also, you are overestimating your contribution to Texas A&M replacing football coaches. Unless you think your stinging comment on Texags paid Sumlin's buyout.

Maroon Dawn said:

---

So you agree its also asinine to whine about the fans not staying and watching the train wreck display of awful football that was Saturday either?

I'm saying they had every right to walk out on that pitiful display and not give into the attitude of "gee golly willikers guys! We have to stay to 00:00 or we're bad fans!"

---

I'm thinking there would have been a lot of regretful fans if that onside kick would have gone our way

Hahahahaha

my son went to the game. He said when we kicked the field goal instead of going for 6 people started leaving. Probably sooner than that but that's when he noticed it.

Maroon Dawn said:

---

So you agree its also asinine to whine about the fans not staying and watching the train wreck display of awful football that was Saturday either?

I'm saying they had every right to walk out on that pitiful display and not give into the attitude of "gee golly willikers guys! We have to stay to 00:00 or we're bad fans!"

---

Yes, I agree. I left a little early myself (when we kicked the FG to make it 28-13) since I was driving back to Wichita Falls rather than staying the night. The fans didn't having anything to do with us being down 21-3 early in the 3rd quarter. I'm going to Athens and Baton Rouge, but my presence (or absence) won't make any difference. The only thing you can say about the crowd Saturday is that the team really didn't put the crowd in a position to make a difference, unlike the Clemson and LSU games last year. That's on the team, not the fans.

rootube said:

---

Maroon Dawn said:

---

twk said:

---

Maroon Dawn said:

---

Did you ever stop to think that maybe this culture of demanding unconditional support for the teams and coaches no matter how bad to mediocre the results on the field/court is the reason WHY all our men's teams but T&F are all so piss poor despite all the money we pour into them?

---

Dumbest thing ever said on Texags. Take solace form the fact that you aren't the first to say it. Blaming the fans is absolutely insane, and saying that it's because we're too forgiving is laughable.

---

So you're saying we don't demand unconditional support despite the results or hang onto bad coaches too long because they're such nice guys?

---

I'm saying that you stay until the end of the game. This used to be a common practice and we used to be much worse than we are today. Also, you are overestimating your contribution to Texas A&M replacing football coaches. Unless you think your stinging comment on Texags paid Sumlin's buyout.

---

Let's say you pay a lot of money to go to a concert (we'll use $100 per person, just for illustrative purposes) and this concert happens to be where you stand in the sun, on the concrete, to watch it. You go to the concert because you've been told that Metallica, Willie Nelson, Neil Diamond, and Chuck Berry are all going to play. When you get to the concert, however, none of those singers are there - it's just Rebecca Black singing "It's Friday" on repeat for 4 hours. You've given up your money and your day to be entertained by something that doesn't entertain you. Would you stay until the end - all the way through the curtain call - just because... because?

Tango_Mike said:

---

rootube said:

---

Maroon Dawn said:

---

twk said:

---

Maroon Dawn said:

---

Did you ever stop to think that maybe this culture of demanding unconditional support for the teams and coaches no matter how bad to mediocre the results on the field/court is the reason WHY all our men's teams but T&F are all so piss poor despite all the money we pour into them?

---

Dumbest thing ever said on Texags. Take solace form the fact that you aren't the first to say it. Blaming the fans is absolutely insane, and saying that it's because we're too forgiving is laughable.

---

So you're saying we don't demand unconditional support despite the results or hang onto bad coaches too long because they're such nice guys?

---

I'm saying that you stay until the end of the game. This used to be a common practice and we used to be much worse than we are today. Also, you are overestimating your contribution to Texas A&M replacing football coaches. Unless you think your stinging comment on Texags paid Sumlin's buyout.

---

Let's say you pay a lot of money to go to a concert (we'll use $100 per person, just for illustrative purposes) and this concert happens to be where you stand in the sun, on the concrete, to watch it. You go to the concert because you've been told that Metallica, Willie Nelson, Neil Diamond, and Chuck Berry are all going to play. When you get to the concert, however, none of those singers are there - it's just Rebecca Black singing "It's Friday" on repeat for 4 hours. You've given up your money and your day to be entertained by something that doesn't entertain you. Would you stay until the end - all the way through the curtain call - just because... because?

---

For illustrative purposes if you are at the game and you have tickets for a concert after the game then everyone with Willie tickets gets to leave early. Neil Diamond, and Metallica have to stay and if you paid for Chuck Berry tickets you need to get your money back because he is dead.

Look I understand that some people have conflicts and have to drive all night to Lubbock. But that stadium was completely empty. I can't remember ever seeing something like that before. People are going to do what they do but this seems kind of new. Like I said I have stayed to the end of a lot of stinkers where RC punted on fourth and three down by two scores with 2 minutes left. I wasn't happy about it but I hunkered down and took my punishment.

John Francis Donaghy said:

---

coldmoose said:

---

The truth is that nowadays few places are like Nebraska. Those fans have been showing up and selling out the stadium for every game. And they have had plenty of lean seasons lately. But they still sell out every game. Every year.

---

It's Nebraska. What the **** else are they going to do?

---

You can say that about a number of places in the country, but people in those places don't match what Nebraska does every year. Also, they do sell big screen, high def televisions in Nebraska too. I know. It came as a shock to me too. Guess they could also spend the time on strategizing on getting higher yield corn crops or something along those lines.

Just saying that when people talk about having exceptional fans, there are some places that do stand out. Not particularly discounting reasons that people offer up for doing what other fans do pretty much most places. I think the point that Saturday Down South was trying to make was that based on the exodus, Aggies are like fans other places and do what people do.

No, " Aggies" will not keep coming. Just your ilk.

No Ag tag is your answer

rootube said:

---

Tango_Mike said:

---

rootube said:

---

Maroon Dawn said:

---

twk said:

---

Maroon Dawn said:

---

Did you ever stop to think that maybe this culture of demanding unconditional support for the teams and coaches no matter how bad to mediocre the results on the field/court is the reason WHY all our men's teams but T&F are all so piss poor despite all the money we pour into them?

---

Dumbest thing ever said on Texags. Take solace form the fact that you aren't the first to say it. Blaming the fans is absolutely insane, and saying that it's because we're too forgiving is laughable.

---

So you're saying we don't demand unconditional support despite the results or hang onto bad coaches too long because they're such nice guys?

---

I'm saying that you stay until the end of the game. This used to be a common practice and we used to be much worse than we are today. Also, you are overestimating your contribution to Texas A&M replacing football coaches. Unless you think your stinging comment on Texags paid Sumlin's buyout.

---

Let's say you pay a lot of money to go to a concert (we'll use $100 per person, just for illustrative purposes) and this concert happens to be where you stand in the sun, on the concrete, to watch it. You go to the concert because you've been told that Metallica, Willie Nelson, Neil Diamond, and Chuck Berry are all going to play. When you get to the concert, however, none of those singers are there - it's just Rebecca Black singing "It's Friday" on repeat for 4 hours. You've given up your money and your day to be entertained by something that doesn't entertain you. Would you stay until the end - all the way through the curtain call - just because... because?

---

For illustrative purposes if you are at the game and you have tickets for a concert after the game then everyone with Willie tickets gets to leave early. Neil Diamond, and Metallica have to stay and if you paid for Chuck Berry tickets you need to get your money back because he is dead.

Look I understand that some people have conflicts and have to drive all night to Lubbock. But that stadium was completely empty. I can't remember ever seeing something like that before. People are going to do what they do but this seems kind of new. Like I said I have stayed to the end of a lot of stinkers where RC punted on fourth and three with 2 minutes left. I wasn't happy about it but I hunkered down and took my punishment.

---

So you admit you'd leave the concert because to stay is irrational. Staying at an entertainment event that is miserable is irrational. Paying to be entertained should in no way involve "taking ones punishment."

And as for it being new, in 2002 when A&M beat OU and then came out and absolutely **** the bed against Mizzou there were about 20% remaining by the beginning of the 4th quarter. I was in the Corps block and by the middle of the third I walked around to my parents' section on the 1st deck of the olds side. Of the ~2500 seats in the section, there were maybe 500 people remaining.

"Jimbo should be livid"...

The section on the alumni side reserved for coaches wives/girlfriends/families is consistently empty for all 4 quarters of every game. And many of the ones that do show up seem disinterested in the game anyways. I would think the coaching staff should fill their own free seats before they have any right to be "livid" at fans for leaving early.

ontheway said:

---

No Ag tag is your answer

---

Sorry, hero, I care more about my online privacy than I do trinkets to impress strangers on an internet chat forum.

Class of 2004, Corps of Cadets, Agricultural Systems Management

I'm very proud of you for having a star on your Sneetch belly that allows you to validate your own [anonymous] opinions on an internet chat forum though!

My opinion (obviously)...I have been to 5 other SEC stadiums to watch us play. MSU, MISS, LSU, AU, UF. I watched everyone of those fans, except LSU, boo the players/coaches while we were dominating games. In the AU game last year, the AU fans around me were dogging the team until the 4th quarter when we fell apart. I say this to make a point that those schools don't accept losing and let the team/coach know it. They don't have an expectation that its ok to lose as long as you do your best. Like it or not, that has always been our culture. We, the 12th man, are part of the team and we don't like calling out the players or coaches. Our culture is great in some ways but it is also a deterrent to taking the next step to championship football. To win a NC, you have to have a "winning is everything" mentality. Until we do that, we will be middle of the pack.

Tango_Mike said:

---

rootube said:

---

Tango_Mike said:

---

rootube said:

---

Maroon Dawn said:

---

twk said:

---

Maroon Dawn said:

---

Did you ever stop to think that maybe this culture of demanding unconditional support for the teams and coaches no matter how bad to mediocre the results on the field/court is the reason WHY all our men's teams but T&F are all so piss poor despite all the money we pour into them?

---

Dumbest thing ever said on Texags. Take solace form the fact that you aren't the first to say it. Blaming the fans is absolutely insane, and saying that it's because we're too forgiving is laughable.

---

So you're saying we don't demand unconditional support despite the results or hang onto bad coaches too long because they're such nice guys?

---

I'm saying that you stay until the end of the game. This used to be a common practice and we used to be much worse than we are today. Also, you are overestimating your contribution to Texas A&M replacing football coaches. Unless you think your stinging comment on Texags paid Sumlin's buyout.

---

Let's say you pay a lot of money to go to a concert (we'll use $100 per person, just for illustrative purposes) and this concert happens to be where you stand in the sun, on the concrete, to watch it. You go to the concert because you've been told that Metallica, Willie Nelson, Neil Diamond, and Chuck Berry are all going to play. When you get to the concert, however, none of those singers are there - it's just Rebecca Black singing "It's Friday" on repeat for 4 hours. You've given up your money and your day to be entertained by something that doesn't entertain you. Would you stay until the end - all the way through the curtain call - just because... because?

---

For illustrative purposes if you are at the game and you have tickets for a concert after the game then everyone with Willie tickets gets to leave early. Neil Diamond, and Metallica have to stay and if you paid for Chuck Berry tickets you need to get your money back because he is dead.

Look I understand that some people have conflicts and have to drive all night to Lubbock. But that stadium was completely empty. I can't remember ever seeing something like that before. People are going to do what they do but this seems kind of new. Like I said I have stayed to the end of a lot of stinkers where RC punted on fourth and three with 2 minutes left. I wasn't happy about it but I hunkered down and took my punishment.

---

So you admit you'd leave the concert because to stay is irrational. Staying at an entertainment event that is miserable is irrational. Paying to be entertained should in no way involve "taking ones punishment."

And as for it being new, in 2002 when A&M beat OU and then came out and absolutely **** the bed against Mizzou there were about 20% remaining by the beginning of the 4th quarter. I was in the Corps block and by the middle of the third I walked around to my parents' section on the 1st deck of the olds side. Of the ~2500 seats in the section, there were maybe 500 people remaining.

---

I'm not sure you read my post. The only thing I admit is that I wish I had never started to argue about this in the first place. I'm saying that I personally have stayed to the end of A LOT of games were we were non-competitive. I need to man up and get used to that fact that I only have control over myself. If people are going to leave I suppose they are going to leave and I need to get used to that. .

cevans_40 said:

---

ghowe said:

---

mugwurt said:

---

Simple fix for Jimbo and crew. Stop losing.

---

This post right here pisses me off! I think you picked the wrong school - you would have been better suited 100 miles to west.

---

If there are any facts to face, it is that we have become just like them.

---

Yes, i don't necessarily disagree. Unfortunately.

Tango_Mike said:

---

ontheway said:

---

No Ag tag is your answer

---

Sorry, hero, I care more about my online privacy than I do trinkets to impress strangers on an internet chat forum.

Class of 2004, Corps of Cadets, Agricultural Systems Management

I'm very proud of you for having a star on your Sneetch belly that allows you to validate your own [anonymous] opinions on an internet chat forum though!

---

AGSM, Corps and Class of 05 here!

geb83 said:

---

If you're a true fan, you stay 'till the end, losing or not.

If you claim to be the 12th Man on the Team, you sure as hell stay 'till the end, WIN OR LOSE.

Don't claim to be the 12th Man unless you're willing to sweat it out with those on the field, ESPECIALLY when things are bad.

Toughen up Ags. Live up to the name, 12th Man.

---

Loyalty to the team is a two-way street.

How many times have we seen juniors leave early for the NFL, regardless of the impact to next year's team? In particular I'm thinking of a TE who was virtually unknown, then played one spectacular season at A&M, then headed for the NFL after his junior (only) season. We have one starting senior on this year's team, our punter. This is all about money now, and most fans understand that is the over-riding priority of the players and staff. It's not about the ideals of amateur athletics and rah-rah alma mater any more. Time to move on.

So Nick Saban can complain about Alabama's fans or even a game's start time, and it's really no big deal; HOWEVER, some faceless internet geek is critical of A&M, and y'all spill your guts with lengthy diatribes that point fingers in every direction like you are on a shrink's couch!!! Aggie football is not life or death; these are just kids, and NONE of y'all are personally footing Jimbo's salary.

AzAg80 said:

---

geb83 said:

---

If you're a true fan, you stay 'till the end, losing or not.

If you claim to be the 12th Man on the Team, you sure as hell stay 'till the end, WIN OR LOSE.

Don't claim to be the 12th Man unless you're willing to sweat it out with those on the field, ESPECIALLY when things are bad.

Toughen up Ags. Live up to the name, 12th Man.

---

Loyalty to the team is a two-way street.

How many times have we seen juniors leave early for the NFL, regardless of the impact to next year's team? In particular I'm thinking of a TE who was virtually unknown, then played one spectacular season at A&M, then headed for the NFL after his junior (only) season. We have one starting senior on this year's team, our punter. This is all about money now, and most fans understand that is the over-riding priority of the players and staff. It's not about the ideals of amateur athletics and rah-rah alma mater any more. Time to move on.

---

Truth

nm

I don't think being a "good Aggie" means sitting through a game where the effort just isn't there from the team.

I only watched but I can imagine the fans could do the math. 25 seconds per snap meant that we had no time to come back. They saw no urgency so saw no reason to stay.

cevans_40 said:

---

ghowe said:

---

mugwurt said:

---

Simple fix for Jimbo and crew. Stop losing.

---

This post right here pisses me off! I think you picked the wrong school - you would have been better suited 100 miles to west.

---

If there are any facts to face, it is that we have become just like them.

---

Vision 2020 for the win!!!

We were so desperate to be like everyone else and it worked; and guess what? It sucks.

We stayed until the end of the game, just like always. It was hot and not very pleasant, weather wise or what was going on on the field.

It makes me sad to see the student section emptying out in the 3rd quarter, but I am not surprised at anything like that anymore.

We get all sorts of media love for our fans/stadium. Truth be known, we are second to none for a big game where we are playing well.

Truth be known part 2, is when the going gets tough, we bail like every other CFB program in this state.

If we really struggle (I think we will rebound) leading up to our November bye/gimmie, there will be 25k empty seats at kick and 50k by the end.

aggieclay said:

---

my son went to the game. He said when we kicked the field goal instead of going for 6 people started leaving. Probably sooner than that but that's when he noticed it.

---

Leaving started on the fumble on the second half opening drive and really picked up when Auburn scored to go up 18.

I read Sneetches to my son nightly.