garc said:

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Ag4coal said:

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Rendered Fat said:

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Your goaltending would have some merit if Sumlin didn't have top 15 recruiting classes every year.

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Go look at our starting O Line and our corners and get back to me.

Easy to get in the top 15 with 5 star QBs, RBs and WRs. Doesn't do you any good if other positions are average to worse than. Both of these position groups were garbage last year. They are trash again this year. There's only so much coaching that can be done.

Btw: FSU our recruited us 5 out of 6 sumlin years here and only finished with less than 10 wins once, so what does that say about Taggert? Sumlin took over a heisman front runner and team expected to win 10 games in a weak ass PAC conference. What about him?

The only legitimate knock on Jimbo at this point is running with Mond when it appears he doesn't have it. But I truly believe that starkel would get murdered behind this line, like he did against Clemson and Alabama

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Our terrible Oline whipped two 4 stars and one 5 star D linemans azz yesterday running the ball, mauled them. If we had an average passing QB, Auburn would not have been in the game.

They are not trash.

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How's they do against that same DLine when auburn got up and had life again? Pretty sure they got roasted the last 2-3 possessions, especially in pass pro. Mond not even having 2 seconds in the pocket with a 3 man rush....

Rendered Fat said:

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The "previous coach left behind a bunch of scrubs" excuse is pathetic. You're paid to coach. If the current players suck, do your job and coach them to be better. At $75 million, you don't get the luxury of the "these
aren't my players" excuse. Make them effing better.

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You've clearly never coaches anyone or anything.

Brian Earl Spilner said:

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The problem is and always has been A&M. We're the common denominator.

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Have you ever heard of the term "Clemsoning"? Seems like a long time ago now. I guess we are just not capable of accomplishing the same type of success. They got fed up and invested heavily in their program. Built top flight facilities and let a WR coach have a blank check to go get great assistants. By year 4, they were a natty contender.

No way that could happen to us.. We are only the richest program in College Football.

With those facilities already in place. Plus we now have just as good of coach who has all the money in the world to create the same program.

But, far be it from me to step in the middle of your BAS pity party. After his 9th game...

Hi, Im Brett said:

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huh? Florida State about to have their worst season in over a decade

One team took a nose dive and the other is staying on par while playing harder schedule, setting up a pro-style offense, and has one of the top recruiting class in nation.

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Brett gets it.

It's completely asinine to say you can't have both. Coaches recruit to the scheme they run...does Taggart run the same scheme as Fisher?...nope. Does Jimbo run the same scheme as Sumlin....hell no. Coaching is so much more than recruiting. Can you honestly say that Jimbo would have the same record at FSU as Taggart this year...Or that Sumlin would have a better record than Jimbo if he stayed? Hands down, Jimbo gives us, and any other team he coaches, the best possible chance to win.

Strength of schedules:
A&M - 2
FSU - 49
UAz -60

Now, who is doing better with someone else's recruits?

So glad this board isn't coaching football

Cromagnum said:

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Jameis had a lot to do with Jimbo's success at FSU. Compare seasons with and without him on the roster. Jimbo is still a fine coach regardless.

As for us, there are lots of holes in our lineup that Jimbo inherited and you can only coach up people so much, especially in only a single season. We badly need a secondary to beef up our pass defense, but more importantly we need better offensive linemen and at least a halfway decent quarterback.

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The good news on the OL is that all of them are back next year.
The bad news on the OL is that all of them are back next year.
We have to improve at QB and OL next year or we will be in deep trouble on the offensive side of the ball.
Does Kenyon Green start as a true frosh ?

All A&M said:

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PascalsWager said:

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You can fairly claim that Jimbo needs more time. That we might win in 4 years when his players are redshirt juniors. That Kevin Sumlin is to blame for this team.

It logically follows if Kevin Sumlin is responsible for this team then Jimbo is for Florida State's current under .500 team.

Kevin Sumlin and Willie Taggart can't be blamed for all of it.

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A&M was ranked #43 in the Sagarin at the end of last season. This team is currently ranked #17 in the Sagarin after the Auburn loss.

A&M will likely go 4-4 in the SEC this year. A&M hasn't won more than 3 SEC games since the 2013 season.

I would say Jimbo is having an immediate positive impact.

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We have won more than 3 SEC games every season except 2014. We have been 4-4 in the SEC the last 3 seasons.

Rendered Fat said:

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Your goaltending would have some merit if Sumlin didn't have top 15 recruiting classes every year.

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"Top 15" in the country equates to about 5th in the SEC, which is pretty much where we have lived since joining the league. There is a talent gap that is glaringly obvious in a lot of positions, and it will take a couple of top recruiting classes to rebuild that

Rendered Fat said:

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The "previous coach left behind a bunch of scrubs" excuse is pathetic. You're paid to coach. If the current players suck, do your job and coach them to be better. At $75 million, you don't get the luxury of the "these aren't my players" excuse. Make them effing better.

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Id argue he has made them much better

A decent place kicker and a quarterback who can get through his reads in 3 seconds and we have a completely different season.

I don't see another coach out there who would have us in a better position. Jimbo is doing his job and as long as Jimbo keeps working and the talent keeps improving I believe the results will follow.

DSAG said:

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Does Kenyon Green start as a true frosh ?

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It's possible, moving Moore inside.

Jimbo is accountable only for A & M in 2018. He has no responsibility or accountability for FSU's performance. I don't GAS about FSU's performance and neither should he.

I thought he had overseen a total culture change in the A&M program in a very short period of time at midseason. It's clear now that the culture change is incomplete. I credited him with that way too early.

Having said that, he's in honeymoon phase at least through next yr and probably the yr after. He has middle of the road SEC talent right now. Really good talent at a handful of positions but way too many holes to be a serious contender most notably in the defensive backfield. The OL ain't great but they ain't bad either, imo they are very much a work in progress. The secondary is not a work in progress, the talent to cover good receivers is just not there.

The short version: Sumlin/the program get credit for the first 7 wins (including bowl), Jimbo and staff get credit for anything in addition.

Jimbo/the program are probably responsible for the first 4-5 FSU losses. Taggart is responsible for the rest. At this point, Taggart looks like a joke. There is not enough evidence to convict him YET, but it looks terrible.


My personal test is whether the team appears to quit in games when they get down. Jimbo's men have not quit on him. Taggart's men have quit in at least 3 games.


-------TLDR Discussion---------

A&M

Sumlin would have found a way to lose either UK, SC or both. Sumlin's teams (post JFF) were usually good for at least one quit a year. I suspect we would have quit against Clemson and Bama. Our Sagarin predictor is currently 82 and change. Sumlin would have us around 78. JImbo is showing signs of life. Time will tell whether it is real or not, but I like what we are seeing.

So Sumlin gets some credit for not leaving Jimbo with total dog crap. Jimbo inherited a decent DL, good LB starters without depth, a functional OL, some good weapons, a bad secondary and underdeveloped QBs. There was enough for a good coach to go 4-4 in the SEC. Sumlin would have probably gone 3-5 and lost the bowl.

I will say this: Elko and JImbo were smart enough to move Keke to DE. They could have plugged in undersized pass-rushers, but prioritized stopping the run.

So let's say the first 7 wins (including the bowl) are on Sumlin. Anything else is a credit to Jimbo.


FSU

Current Sagarin predictor of 71. Past seasons:

17: 79.98
16: 90.37
15: 86.36
14: 82.54
13:100.53
12: 88.89
11: 83.99
10: 87.59
-------Jimbo becomes HC
09: 77.48
08: 83.78
07: 76.75
06: 79.61

For those who do not know, usually 70 should get a team to a bowl, 80 is a good team, 85 is a very good team, 95 is usually good enough to compete for a title.

Jimbo's worst team by far was 2017. That team was also better than it's record and had to deal with a disproportionate # of injuries (I hate that excuse, but in their case it was legit). specifically, they lost their preseason all-conference QB in the first game and had to play a true fish. Figure if Francois had stayed healthy, that FSU team goes 8-4 and has a Sagarin predictor in the low 80s.

FSU did lose a bunch of good defensive players. At the same time, Taggart inherited a bunch of offensive weapons and there should be plenty of talent on the roster to develop.

The way Taggart's teams have quit on him just looks shameful.