I don't disagree with you at all on any of it. I just think it is time. I just see things over the last few years that make me think 8-4 or 9 wins is this coaching staffs best.

CoachLB said:

---

I don't disagree with you at all on any of it. I just think it is time. I just see things over the last few years that make me think 8-4 or 9 wins is this coaching staffs best.

---

Thanks for your informed insight and being the catalyst for an interesting thread.

Presently, I think the strong consensus is that the decision makers have been very slow in coming to the realization that Sumlin is a liability. Moreover, some of our frequent and very opinionated (not an insult) posters facilitated elongating the mistake with their "next year" viewpoints. Some of them assured us that this would be a 9 or 10 win season and we would finally get over the hump. Now, fortunately, we are moving on.

I enjoyed reading your post, coach.

Aggiebrewer said:

---

I have thrown flags on bad & good coaches for years.

Sumlin is a bad coach.

---

You would like calling his games though. I've never seen him give you guys a hard time.

Thank You.

It would be interesting to read specifics instead of generalities.

Aggiebrewer said:

---

Ragoo said:

---

It would be interesting to read specifics instead of generalities.

---

You mean specifically why folks are saying Sumlin is not a good coach?

I'll give a few reasons off the top of my head...

1. Game clock management

2. 1st down runs up the middle after EVERY long gain play. Nobody but texags noticed that, right?

3. O-line tipping off D for weeks & weeks

4. No QB snaps under center plays ever for any reason (maybe victory formation?)

5. Slants work but we can't run them for some reason.

6. QB management

7. QB management

8. QB management

Other reasons I see are more coordinator issues so I won't list them but buck stops with HC there too.

Edit to add: the fact that in season 6 something like 14-15 fish were starters week 1 tells me sumlin CANNOT 'coach em up'.

---

these are more generalizations and were never an issue the first two years.

This thread was started last night. What specifically in the win was bad coaching?

I was ready the night of ucla. He should have been put on the other bus! Adios!

In the win last night?

Here's a couple:

1) 1st and goal inside the 5. Still no power package and had to settle for a field goal when a touchdown would have put the game completely out of reach.
2) end of the first half: 30 seconds left on the clock. Receive the kickoff on our own 30. Plenty of time to get in field goal range for our kicker or at least try. Runs the ball twice and goes to the locker room. Those 3 points could have made a huge difference if we hadn't lucked into that pick 6.
3) inability to convert on takeaways.

Coach is always a thoughtful and respectful poster.

Aggiebrewer said:

---

My opinion of Sumlin staying or going was not formed last night.

If yours was, I don't know what to tell you.

The fact that we struggled with a crappy team is pathetic. But hey, if you are happy with his performance, more power to ya

---

oh Jesus Christ. This thread was obviously started in response to the game last night. I am curious to know specifics that prompted the OP to begin this thread.

If you do not wish to answer constructively by all means please skip my inquiry.

Ags4DaWin said:

---

In the win last night?

Here's a couple:

1) 1st and goal inside the 5. Still no power package and had to settle for a field goal when a touchdown would have put the game completely out of reach.
2) end of the first half: 30 seconds left on the clock. Receive the kickoff on our own 30. Plenty of time to get in field goal range for our kicker or at least try. Runs the ball twice and goes to the locker room. Those 3 points could have made a huge difference if we hadn't lucked into that pick 6.
3) inability to convert on takeaways.

---

1) isn't coaching last night, it is philosophy and long term.
2) agree we should have attempted some downfield passes to try and get some points before the half. Probably a little shell shocked from the auburn end of half. A few years ago Sumlin would have done just that, not sure what has changed with this mindset.
3) not sure what your point is here.

Hope the next coach has a more killer instinct. Fisher has done a good job with superior talent to his competition. If his is the guy I hope he has the ability to claw for every point because that is what it takes in this league.

TxAg76 said:

---

CoachLB said:

---

Good post. Like Tucker, that kid has been taught well and cares it to the field.He is an example of talent playing his technique and assignment.

---

Ole Miss was his best game. He's had other stinkers though. Like most any of them, the more he plays, the better he's gonna get.
The Watts of today isn't the freshman Watts. Even Dodson, only a sophomore, different dude than just a year ago. And there's a lot of high ceilings in that locker room right now.

Maybe it's just me, but a lot of the fundamentals frustrations I can understand with all the youth.
I know it took me a bit to adjust from the HS game to college. Overall speed was the biggest change. And I didn't play in the SEC either.

I don't think the players are out on Sumlin. They still play hard, even if they mess up, they're messing up full speed.
That's something that Jimbo's 'noles cannot say. That team lost their starting QB and the whole thing fell off a cliff. To Sumlin's credit, that did not happen here.

---

I think it's largely about culture, knowing how to win, plying with urgency and desperation, focus on detail, accountability, knowing how and when to take the focus to the next level and will that first down or get that stop or make that play. These things have always been missing from Sumlin teams. His teams make the same type of mistakes over and over again. Yes he does some things well. But without these things you will not win a championship at any level. Perhaps for some that is setting the bar too high.

Case in point, last night, the game is online in the 4th quarter, ti's first and goal from the one and a TD almost guarantee a victory, and the center snaps the ball at QBs feet. Then it's 2nd and goal from the 6 resulting in a field goal Now ask yourself what would Sabin do, how would he handle that?

Aggiebrewer said:

---

Ragoo said:

---

It would be interesting to read specifics instead of generalities.

---

You mean specifically why folks are saying Sumlin is not a good coach?

I'll give a few reasons off the top of my head...

1. Game clock management

2. 1st down runs up the middle after EVERY long gain play. Nobody but texags noticed that, right?

3. O-line tipping off D for weeks & weeks

4. No QB snaps under center plays ever for any reason (maybe victory formation?)

5. Slants work but we can't run them for some reason.

6. QB management

7. QB management

8. QB management

Other reasons I see are more coordinator issues so I won't list them but buck stops with HC there too.

Edit to add: the fact that in season 6 something like 14-15 fish were starters week 1 tells me sumlin CANNOT 'coach em up'.

---

Damien Ratley and Ausbon caght at least 4 slants last night for good gains. Just sayin

CoachLB said:

---

LAT. You are one of my favorite posters. I have no problem with people who disagree with me. Because believe it or not sometimes I am wrong.

---

Same here, Coach. I enjoy your posts (mostly! ) and your insight into the game.

Loco84 said:

---

The really sad part is that he gets $10mm walking out the door for totally sucking at his job.

---

I wonder how you would objectively grade your own performance at your job if you think he has totally sucked at his job. Historically this is the second best six year stretch in our programs history (by total wins).

He's not terrible. You don't put together 6 consecutive seasons of 8 or more wins in the SEC if you're terrible. He gets a lot of talent. His offensive scheme generates yards and points. His teams have started every season playing hard.

That said, I think there are flaws that mean he will not compete for the division/national title. His offensive philosophy has issues, most notably in short yardage situations. He has not handled quarterback situations well. He's done a poor job getting quality offensive linemen on the field. He's missed on a ton of coaching hires. Before this year, the team has folded at the first adversity.

Sherman left an insane offense and one year of good defense with no depth or youth (especially with key losses to injury or misbehavior). The offense has gotten steadily worse as Sherman's pipeline of offensive line studs got drafted and weren't replaced, but Chavis seems to finally have the defense going the right direction which is keeping us competitive.

2017 is probably his best in-season coaching job given the challenges they've faced, yet a lot of the challenges are his responsibility.

I gave specifics. But if they are not enough how about this. Never winning more than 8 games in a year since 2013. That may be fine with you, but I think A&M can do better. You are who you are. And this staff is an 8 or 9 wins a year staff. If you are OK with that, then keep him.

I feel like some are watching trends in (anything) and thinking that, well, even though the data shows (x), I just know it will change next year.

Sumlin is clear to give us around 8, maybe 9 wins a year. Are you happy with not competing for the SEC West? If you aren't, then 8 or 9 wins a year is fine. If you want more, we need changes.

Did you read all of the posts? This game did not cause my feelings about this staff. I have felt this way for a while. I said in one of my posts that I try not to say anything bad about coaches. It is not something I like to do. But what caused me to make the post is the people who are happy with the direction of the program. You see, 8 win seasons is not the goal. 8 win seasons with wins over cupcakes being 3 of them is not anything special or anything to cheer about.

Thanks Lat.

Thank You.

jasonandtori said:

---

Loco84 said:

---

The really sad part is that he gets $10mm walking out the door for totally sucking at his job.

---

I wonder how you would objectively grade your own performance at your job if you think he has totally sucked at his job. Historically this is the second best six year stretch in our programs history (by total wins).

---

The sad part is that this is the second best six year stretch which speaks volumes to the dismal football program and the rise of BAS.

jasonandtori said:

---

Loco84 said:

---

The really sad part is that he gets $10mm walking out the door for totally sucking at his job.

---

I wonder how you would objectively grade your own performance at your job if you think he has totally sucked at his job. Historically this is the second best six year stretch in our programs history (by total wins).

---

Historically the team didn't play 12 games a year + bowl. There weren't 40 bowl games and 3 cupcakes on the schedule each season essentially assuring you get one of those bowls barring a total meltdown.

Throwing that stat out there is like the annual 'RB X is challenging Barry Sanders record with the 2 extra games'.

ghowe said:

---

Case in point, last night, the game is online in the 4th quarter, ti's first and goal from the one and a TD almost guarantee a victory, and the center snaps the ball at QBs feet. Then it's 2nd and goal from the 6 resulting in a field goal Now ask yourself what would Sabin do, how would he handle that?

---

I can answer that. Saban would have been somewhere between completely POed and utterly livid because he would have already told the center how to fix that after all the other bad snaps.

I think it's time for us to part ways with Sumlin, but I am glad that the administration has been cautious about pulling the trigger up until. I think a coach whose floor has been 8 wins merits some benefit of the doubt.

Quote:

---

Historically the team didn't play 12 games a year + bowl. There weren't 40 bowl games and 3 cupcakes on the schedule each season essentially assuring you get one of those bowls barring a total meltdown.

---

Good point. Also, coaches had control over who they would and wouldn't play. In the SEC for instance, they didn't have to play a set number of conference games (seems weird but true). There was a tie-breaker rule for conference champion that relied solely on number of conference wins. Bear Bryant would pick the weakest teams in the conference to play along with the traditional rivalries. IOW, he played more SEC games than most other programs.

Result? He won the SEC a helluva lot.

Good post. I believe most people who want a change feel that Sumlin is a good coach. But 6 years shows you what a coach can deliver. If you want 8 wins a year and sometimes 9 then keep him. But remember 3 of those wins a year are cupcakes. But if you want to contend for SEC titles and National championships then you make a change. Does a coaching change mean we will be a contender for sure, no. But anybody who ever did anything great did not settle for average. They took steps to be great. Hire a proven winner or a young guy that has greatness written all over him and make the hire. Is it a risk? Maybe, but we know we don't have a contending coach now so if it is me I take that risk. I am not bashing Sumlin. He may win big somewhere else. But 6 years in and he hasn't done it here so we need a change.

We tried to make it work. Sumlin has been given everything in his time here, and he can't get over the hump. And, in many cases, he's been his own worst enemy when it comes to roster management. It is time to move on.