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I don't question the man's record. I question his salary.

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How much of it are you paying?

The measure of a coach is what he does with the players he has. Given who we are playing these days, I'd say Sumlin is average. We need to be beating LSU & Alabama more often.

In the last 2-3 years A&M has been the greatest mediocre team in the nation.

Be competitive in EVERY game. The 59-0 type losses must stop. Also, stop the damn run.

Posters who keep using Fran and Sherman as standard bearers are people who love mediocrity. Those 2 are arguably the worst coaches we've had since guys who coached in the 60s. And ftr Sherman's last team was rated higher in the computers polls including Sagarin than last years team. And yet we fired him and I can understand why we did. This is year 5 and we have the best facilities in the country for the first time in school history, we pay our head coach and coordinators top 5 salaries which we didn't with Sherman and Fran, so it's time to win. No one is demanding a SEC title or we fire Sumlin, but 9-4 should be the minimum. That would put us around 20th in the country which would be close to our all time average. Which given our resources today compared to our all time average shouldn't be asking too much. Fran and Sherman's last teams were 7-6 and we fired them. And Sherman's last team had arguably the toughest schedule in the history of college football and never got blown out. Surely the bar should be higher now than it was in 2011.

Wasn't that Fran's last year.
The Arkansas State loss.

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I read an article today with Coach Sum's picture on it as the number one coach in the nation on the hot seat. The line read....."After another mediocre year Kevin Sumlin's back-to-back eight-win seasons and quarterback transfers,He is in need of a saving year."

I'm reading this and I'm thinking.....The guy is 36-16 in the toughest conference in the nation by far and then I looked up what we did the previous 7 years....

Mike Sherman was an even 25-25 from 2008-11
Dennis Franchione went 32-28 from 2003-07

And among all active SEC coaches his five-year start record ranks third. I REALLY hope Coach Sum can ring up a solid year. It would be a shame to see us go backwards into the Franchione/Sherman era.

Let's kick some Bruin tail and get this season started the right way!

GIG EM!

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What if, just hypothetically, Sherman had started with the talent he left Sumlin and Sumlin had started with the talent Sherman inherited from Fran. I contend it would be Sherman way out front.

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What if, just hypothetically, Sherman had started with the talent he left Sumlin and Sumlin had started with the talent Sherman inherited from Fran. I contend it would be Sherman way out front.

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Nah. Sherman's play-calling was a huge problem. He lost those games in the second half by squandering a lead, often a big one in 2011. Sherman was perhaps a better evaluator of talent in certain positions, but he sucked as a game day coach. Maybe if he had let the OC call plays?

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Wasn't that Fran's last year.
The Arkansas State loss.

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Sherman's first game. I think Jerrod Johnson threw four picks.

Sumlin not good with defense. We've seen his defenses
Sumlin not good with offense. We've seen that last year
Sumlin not recruiting good. He was lucky Baylor went down and we got a bump.

What is he good at? Which part of the game has his signature on it?

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Sumlin not good with defense. We've seen his defenses
Sumlin not good with offense. We've seen that last year
Sumlin not recruiting good. He was lucky Baylor went down and we got a bump.

What is he good at? Which part of the game has his signature on it?

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I read an article today with Coach Sum's picture on it as the number one coach in the nation on the hot seat. The line read....."After another mediocre year Kevin Sumlin's back-to-back eight-win seasons and quarterback transfers,He is in need of a saving year."

I'm reading this and I'm thinking.....The guy is 36-16 in the toughest conference in the nation by far and then I looked up what we did the previous 7 years....

Mike Sherman was an even 25-25 from 2008-11
Dennis Franchione went 32-28 from 2003-07

And among all active SEC coaches his five-year start record ranks third. I REALLY hope Coach Sum can ring up a solid year. It would be a shame to see us go backwards into the Franchione/Sherman era.

Let's kick some Bruin tail and get this season started the right way!

GIG EM!

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Take a look at his conference record. Padding the record against teams like rice and smu and the deaf dumb and blind is irrelevant. He's been here 5 years, its time to compete for conference championships.

"Competing for conference championships" is fun to say but what do you define as competing? What if he goes 10-2 losing to bama and lsu? Is that competing or failing yet again to beat two of the top 5 programs of the last decade?

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I don't question the man's record. I question his salary.

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How much of it are you paying?

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If you're donating to TMF foundation you're paying part of it.

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I don't question the man's record. I question his salary.

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How much of it are you paying?

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If you're donating to TMF foundation you're paying part of it.

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salary is a red-herring argument. His brand pays for it in revenue to the AD. It is also the cost of entry. You are going to pay at or near that to get the next guy. Focus on results and momentum of the program not salary.

Sherman lost a lot of games in the second half because of being an ex pro coach did not know how to get your players ready to play in the second half an they came out flat. other wise he was a great coach

Sherman's talent evaluations were amazing.

I don't think anybody would debate that. He would be the best OL coach/recruiting coordinator in the nation.

I'm focused on his less than stellar results. Doesn't change the fact that those donating are paying the salary.

Stephen McGee was qb and threw 2 picks. Johnson and Tannehill both played wr that game.

For those suggesting Les Miles as a replacement for Sumlin.

1. We have a coach. jmo but it's bad form to talk replacements until there's actually an opening. Sumlin might go 14-0 this yr. I don't expect it but it's possible. I know this is just Texags ... just saying though.

2. I watched Coach Fran destroy a Miles coached team ( A&M v. OSU) in 2005. Fran's team was way better prepared. Fran's staff outcoached Miles in game as well. Let that sink in. When Miles doesn't have a talent edge he isn't very good. Ask your local LSU fan what they think. Red Stick already weighed in on this one.

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Your comments have little to do with salary and everything to do with winning. You made my point. It's about winning. It's not about the level of compensation. If I were the coach and you were paying me 20K per year, you would have no qualms about calling for my termination if the team did not win. The whole salary discussion is noise

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We'll just have to agree to disagree. To get to Top Ten in the nation salary you need to demonstrate results which Sumlin did..... for one yr. Our BMA's always overeact to success imo and that isn't Coach Sumlin's fault but it is looking like a flash in the pan right now. Top Ten salary without even close to Top Ten results is a bad combination imo. I'd agree that you'd have to pay a replacement just as much and the expectation would be better results over a 5 yr period. Having said that, there are of course no guarantees when it comes to coaches and winning.

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The guy is 36-16 in the toughest conference in the nation....

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That is NOT our conference record there Skippy......

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Your comments have little to do with salary and everything to do with winning. You made my point. It's about winning. It's not about the level of compensation. If I were the coach and you were paying me 20K per year, you would have no qualms about calling for my termination if the team did not win. The whole salary discussion is noise

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We'll just have to agree to disagree. To get to Top Ten in the nation salary you need to demonstrate results which Sumlin did..... for one yr. Our BMA's always overeact to success imo and that isn't Coach Sumlin's fault but it is looking like a flash in the pan right now. Top Ten salary without even close to Top Ten results is a bad combination imo. I'd agree that you'd have to pay a replacement just as much and the expectation would be better results over a 5 yr period. Having said that, there are of course no guarantees when it comes to coaches and winning.

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Seems we're closer than you think. It is about winning. I can't prevent those in charge from overpaying. To compare to baseball, I think the relative value of A-Rod, Pujols, or Harper is all about how their performances win or lose games. Whether they are a bargain, fair value or a rip-off is relative noise. At this point discussing the relative merits of the contracts they signed only has potential value in learning for future situations. If A-Rod were hitting above .275 on a 40HR pace, he would still be showing up at the ballpark for some team.

I guarantee if the team were steadily progressing toward a 14-0 season, the talk of salary would drop entirely in the background. On the other hand if the team were steadily marching toward 0-14, the salary discussion would drop entirely into the background. The real question is, "Has the team's on field performance met expectations?" After that everything else is just reaching for some justification for termination. Remember when Fran left? It was not about salary, it became about some subscription fan communication. If the team was winning, the situation would have be handled 'internally' and disappeared.

tl;dr -- "Just win, baby. Everything else is mostly irrelevant"

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I'm focused on his less than stellar results. Doesn't change the fact that those donating are paying the salary.

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yet you cannot define what in your mind becomes "less than stellar".

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2. I watched Coach Fran destroy a Miles coached team ( A&M v. OSU) in 2005. Fran's team was way better prepared. Fran's staff outcoached Miles in game as well. Let that sink in. When Miles doesn't have a talent edge he isn't very good. Ask your local LSU fan what they think. Red Stick already weighed in on this one.

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this x10000

how in the wide world of sports did fran go into stillwater and out coach that entire les miles staff? like a drum no less.

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What if, just hypothetically, Sherman had started with the talent he left Sumlin and Sumlin had started with the talent Sherman inherited from Fran. I contend it would be Sherman way out front.

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Nah. Sherman's play-calling was a huge problem. He lost those games in the second half by squandering a lead, often a big one in 2011. Sherman was perhaps a better evaluator of talent in certain positions, but he sucked as a game day coach. Maybe if he had let the OC call plays?

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Do you think Sherman's second half play calling might have been influenced by the lack of depth A&M had? A&M had enough quality starters, but the depth just wasn't there. Player fatigue had a larger role in some of the losses than incompetence among the coaches.

Lack of depth was an issue in 2012, and it has remained a problem. Even now the Aggies are counting on players without any experience to be significant contributors. That is evidence that depth is still questionable.

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I'm focused on his less than stellar results. Doesn't change the fact that those donating are paying the salary.

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yet you cannot define what in your mind becomes "less than stellar".

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2012 4-4 3rd place
2013 4-4 4th place
3-5 6th place
4-4 5th place


Did you watch Ole Miss, Auburn, LSU and Louisville last year?

How about Miss State, Ole Miss and Alabama the year before?

Is that less than stellar enough for you?

Sumlin managed to go back in time to 2012 and lose two additional games?


Damn, he does suck.

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What if, just hypothetically, Sherman had started with the talent he left Sumlin and Sumlin had started with the talent Sherman inherited from Fran. I contend it would be Sherman way out front.

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Nah. Sherman's play-calling was a huge problem. He lost those games in the second half by squandering a lead, often a big one in 2011. Sherman was perhaps a better evaluator of talent in certain positions, but he sucked as a game day coach. Maybe if he had let the OC call plays?

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Do you think Sherman's second half play calling might have been influenced by the lack of depth A&M had? A&M had enough quality starters, but the depth just wasn't there. Player fatigue had a larger role in some of the losses than incompetence among the coaches.

Lack of depth was an issue in 2012, and it has remained a problem. Even now the Aggies are counting on players without any experience to be significant contributors. That is evidence that depth is still questionable.

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One of our 2nd string LBs is a walk on. I'm sure the kid is great, but we should be recruiting better.

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I'm focused on his less than stellar results. Doesn't change the fact that those donating are paying the salary.

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yet you cannot define what in your mind becomes "less than stellar".

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2012 4-4 3rd place
2013 4-4 4th place
3-5 6th place
4-4 5th place


Did you watch Ole Miss, Auburn, LSU and Louisville last year?

How about Miss State, Ole Miss and Alabama the year before?

Is that less than stellar enough for you?

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so winning one more game would have made you happy? Losing by only a few points? I don't remember losing 4 games in 2012. Maybe you have a better memory than me.

Multi-tasking. 13. 14 and 15 were the years as you both already knew.

I get that you guys are happy with 4th, 5th or 6th place in the SECW. That's what he's delivering. How many times does the team have to quit for you to question him?

Bunch of hollow strawman arguments going on here yet no one is offering a solution. Firing is not a solution, it only exasperate the problem. As a great mentor once told me, "don't bring me a problem, bring me a solution. And if you don't have a solution or can contribute to the solution, then your opinion matters little too me."

And Herman ain't coming here.

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Bunch of hollow strawman arguments going on here yet no one is offering a solution. Firing is not a solution, it only exasperate the problem. As a great mentor once told me, "don't bring me a problem, bring me a solution. And if you don't have a solution or can contribute to the solution, then your opinion matters little too me."

And Herman ain't coming here.

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I agree. Firing the coach has always been the Aggie solution. Where has that approach ever gotten us? Need to start being more patient for starters, a quality texags posters, for the most part, DO NOT POSSESS!

If Sumlin is a CEO/Recruiter (like Mack Brown), he should have known it and:

-Hired a better replacement for Kliff than McKinney and Spav
-Hired a better DC than Snyder to start
-Hired somebody who could coach OL

-Recruited better JUCO players to plug holes on defense
-Recruited less thugs in 2013

-Handled the QBs differently
-Not recruited Kyler or anybody else with a helicopter dad

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Firing the coach has always been the Aggie solution.

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Aggies and every other football program on the planet. I'd argue that we are more patient than most of our competitors.

I do think RC was the victim of no one listening with regard to upgrading facilities. That definitely handicapped us on recruiting. He was beating that drum almost ten yrs before he was let go. That one was on the AD imo.

What other A&M HFC was fired that you'd argue shouldn't have been fired.