agree to disagree. 2012 was a very good season. I would imagine most Aggies would term it as such. If you feel the desire to continue the argument maybe someone else can join you. I'm gonna exit the conversation as its trending toward pointlessness.

I have said it before and I will say it again I think it is more about how the team plays and less about wins. Of we go 8-5 and we have a big collapse again then he is probably gone. If we go 7-6 and fight hard with no drama or big collapses then he probably stays.

I see 4 gimmes on our schedule and 3 games we have a great chance of winning. We then have 2 games that will be hard fought but we can win. Ole miss I am not sure about and that leaves 2 games that will be very challenging to win.

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These odds look a bit pessimistic or biased toward past head to head match ups

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Probably...and for good reason. Face it, a significant number of our wins cames against "patsies" and too many of our loses came against "quality" programs that beat us soundly. To gain "respect", you have to earn it and demonstrate to everyone that you intend to keep it. We haven't met that standard.

If the holes are that big in ol, lb, and qb in year 5, and they haven't sniffed an sec west title yet, and the staff is rewarded with this type of compensation - what is it all for? What are you building? What are your goals? Why are your expectations so low for a program that you have invested so much in?

This thing is going to turn into Arkansas if you don't start demanding more. If you concede that you will never be Alabama, or even LSU, you won't be, and you won't be able to compete with them either.

That's not a fire staff rant. That is an EXPECT MORE FROM THIS STAFF rant. If your bar is 7 or 8 wins with the most talent on campus in 25+ years, you are letting them off the hook, and we'll look up in 5 years, and we will still be Arkansas.

Big picture wise the expectations on this year are very concerning. The excuses as to why this won't be Sumlins best team since he arrived fall squarely on his shoulders. He gets paid $5mil a year to own it. BMAs need to make him own that too.

On paper, this is going to be Sumlins best roster for the next 2-4 years. And we will be happy if he wins 6-9 games?

Sumlin needs to win 10 or 11 games this season. Then, the 2017 rebuild will be easier for recruits to swallow.

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Big picture wise the expectations on this year are very concerning. The excuses as to why this won't be Sumlins best team since he arrived fall squarely on his shoulders. He gets paid $5mil a year to own it. BMAs need to make him own that too.

On paper, this is going to be Sumlins best roster for the next 2-4 years. And we will be happy if he wins 6-9 games?

Sumlin needs to win 10 or 11 games this season. Then, the 2017 rebuild will be easier for recruits to swallow.

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Amen.

I feel like if we go 8-5 Sumlin will survive, but 12th Man won't be happy.

If we don't win at least 8 games, Sumlin's job will be in jeopardy

no it's not.

remember A&M will also have to pay whatever the buyout is for the next coach's contract.

switching out head coaching staffs could end up costing as much as the new softball stadium ($28 million).

Sumlin will be here for 2017 unless the roof caves in

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agree to disagree. 2012 was a very good season. I would imagine most Aggies would term it as such. If you feel the desire to continue the argument maybe someone else can join you. I'm gonna exit the conversation as its trending toward pointlessness.

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That's the problem. We Aggies have decided that anything slightly above mediocre is a "very good" season. Expectations have been low for far too long.

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Big picture wise the expectations on this year are very concerning. The excuses as to why this won't be Sumlins best team since he arrived fall squarely on his shoulders. He gets paid $5mil a year to own it. BMAs need to make him own that too.

On paper, this is going to be Sumlins best roster for the next 2-4 years. And we will be happy if he wins 6-9 games?

Sumlin needs to win 10 or 11 games this season. Then, the 2017 rebuild will be easier for recruits to swallow.

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Elite programs that can afford to pay in the top five in the nation shouldn't have rebuilding years. That's part of the problem.

>9 he stays. <9 he is gone.

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If he wins 9 games, we'll give him a $1mm raise knowing our genius BMAs. I'd fire him for anything less, and tell him next year was at the top or get packing. And if that sounds crazy, consider what we are paying him- you want to make the big bucks, then you gotta beat the big boys. Otherwise go back to CUSA and not win that, either, and let us take a shot on someone else.

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Seems we finally found something to agree on.

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I support nearly all of your positions.

I have it on good word he is back for 2017 pretty much no matter what. Doesn't mean things don't change, but all this < 9 = fired is made up sh$t.

Maybe if we could ever keep a team intact for a full season,or not have to play underclassmen like we did in 2013 and 2014 we wouldnt be having this conversation... eva. But you clowns know nothin but wins/losses. Never taking into account why, or what is directly under Sumlins control and what aint. All I can see is that the naysayers only want to lay blame. When blame cant be layed. Mostly because none of you know what the conversations are during the year when problems arise. But you act like you know exactly what went on. And most know nothing about what it takes to win championships.

I dont remember Saban winning everything right off the bat. Nor Mack Brown for that matter. It took time,and a lot of luck having a team not riddled with injuries, and enough depth to cover the deficit without having to play underclassmen against NFL caliber players in the SEC west in Nick Sabans case. I dare say Sumlin has been quietly getting what has been needed. But the QB play the last 3 years has been... well , you know what they've been up against. I think Knight and the Monds kid will do us a lot better in the future. And to me the future looks bright. I think getting rid of Sumlin at this point would be a monumental mistake. But I'll leave space for the season to play out.

ps. I hope some day that the truth of what went on with Kyler and Kyle comes out, I really do.Then we can say all we want to say. But until that day happens, we cant lay blame anywhere, not even on them.

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Sorry, but six games are gimmes.

Winning 2-3 more is not a significant achievement unless one or more of those is LSU or Alabama.

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If you can type out the 6 gimmes with a straight face, I will kiss your ass

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Pview
Utsa
NM st.

All gimmies

Auburn
Miss st
South Carolina

All bad teams the Ags should have no business losing to.

Arky
Tennessee
Ole miss
UCLA

3-1 at worst should be expected (protect home field against teams of similar talent level)

Bama
LSU

1-1 should be expected.

10-2.

If he chokes a game away and goes 9-3, still a good season.

If Ags go 8-4, it's good enough for one year but not for multiple

7-5 or less is a failure of a season and means more home losses by Sumlin in games he should win

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I think this is as realistic as one can break it down. One win better would be bonus and one less would prompt me to look at what coaches are on the market. If there happens to be a highly regarded coach, with proven record then I would lean that direction.

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Maybe if we could ever keep a team intact for a full season,or not have to play underclassmen like we did in 2013 and 2014 we wouldnt be having this conversation... eva. But you clowns know nothin but wins/losses. Never taking into account why, or what is directly under Sumlins control and what aint. All I can see is that the naysayers only want to lay blame. When blame cant be layed. Mostly because none of you know what the conversations are during the year when problems arise. But you act like you know exactly what went on. And most know nothing about what it takes to win championships.

I dont remember Saban winning everything right off the bat. Nor Mack Brown for that matter. It took time,and a lot of luck having a team not riddled with injuries, and enough depth to cover the deficit without having to play underclassmen against NFL caliber players in the SEC west in Nick Sabans case. I dare say Sumlin has been quietly getting what has been needed. But the QB play the last 3 years has been... well , you know what they've been up against. I think Knight and the Monds kid will do us a lot better in the future. And to me the future looks bright. I think getting rid of Sumlin at this point would be a monumental mistake. But I'll leave space for the season to play out.

ps. I hope some day that the truth of what went on with Kyler and Kyle comes out, I really do.Then we can say all we want to say. But until that day happens, we cant lay blame anywhere, not even on them.

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Fair points, but injuries and personnel, etc. issues aside, there are games the last couple of seasons that the Aggies entered the game with the better team and lost. Two that come to mind are Auburn last year, and Mizzou in 2014, both home games. If the Aggies had won those two no one would be questioning Sumlin's status going into this season.

The mizzou game was a deluge and their stout defense was way better than our crappy defense. The conditions gifted them a favorable matchup.

It took auburn running a fumblerusky to put us away. They have lasted desperate and it worked.

Sharp tried to get Sumlin fired this year and Cliff Thomas told Sharp he didn't have the votes. My guess is Sharp will be lobbying the Regents for at least a nine win season or Sumlin is gone.

Y'all need to get a life! Most of you SOBs must do the Facebook crap as well. Let the season ride out and enjoy your time enjoying Aggie sports!

We are not going to be better than we are this year unless we catch another once in a generation QB like Johnny.

If we only win nine games this year. I have no hope for sumlin. We have way too much talent to continue to be middle of the pack. It's actually annoying to me that 8-9 is what is expected.

To me, considering it's year 5, 9-3 is a requisite. 9-3 probably won't happen.

If this team goes 8-4 Sumlin is safe, unless there are more off the field embarrassments and mid season flat liners. Then, it could get testy, but it's highly unlikely that they pull the plug at 8-4 even with a side order of embarrassment.

If this team goes 7-5, I would escort Sumlin out myself, but knowing how we typically handle things, Sumlin stands a good chance (65 % perhaps?) of being back for 2017, specially if one of those wins happens to be LSU or there are no flat liners.

If he goes 6-6, he's done at A&M.

I'm biased, but I guess I can explain to the pro-Sumlin crowd why people are against him.

If Sumlin can't win with the loads of talent we have now, then when will he win? We won't get another Garrett if all we did with the first was get 8 wins.

We will probably have several huge holes next year, and people are saying why fire him next year when he does horribly when we can give the new guy a head start?

If it's the buyout, then okay. I guess so. But that says you're not willing to do whatever it takes to win. If it's not the buyout, then what is it? You know there's gonna be a talent drop off next year and it won't get better.

We can wait for another Johnny, I guess.

6-6 Sumlin gets a contarct extension with a pay raise

Well on the one hand, yes, that's good logic. 2017 isn't looking anybetter right now. Why not get a head start, right? But on the other hand, two things weigh in against that though process: 1. The new coaches, which were a pretty big investment which may need some time to pay off in the minds of decision makers. 2. Given the prior investment, the buyout will still be at 15MM.

I definitely get that. It's really about whether you think the coaches will be able to overcome the loss of talent next year OR you think it may best to get a fresh start if someone has a really impressive resume (Tom Herman or some other superstar).

Really, I think, it boils down to whether it was Sherman or Turner really pushed that O line to the next level and whether Mazzones offense will really work. Interesting questions.

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we have won 10+ games twice since 1994.

sumlin is trending down albeit it is only at 8 games in the sec west

i can see both sides actually

recruiting is not trending down which is usually the indicator that things are unrecoverable and its time to take action

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Recruiting is absolutely trending down.

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2012 15th
2013 11th
2014 6th
2015 10th
2016 17th
2017 11th

If recruiting were trending down in 2017 we would be projected 24th or so, yet we are 11th

It will be another mediocre year and mediocre bowl with a final ranking outside the top 25. Lather, rinse, repeat. 7 wins.

Texas took us the the woodshed the last 2 signing days and we're whiffing on top Texas talent. We can't recruit DL or LB well. It's declining. Hold on to your rankings though.

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Maybe if we could ever keep a team intact for a full season,or not have to play underclassmen like we did in 2013 and 2014 we wouldnt be having this conversation... eva. But you clowns know nothin but wins/losses. Never taking into account why, or what is directly under Sumlins control and what aint. All I can see is that the naysayers only want to lay blame. When blame cant be layed. Mostly because none of you know what the conversations are during the year when problems arise. But you act like you know exactly what went on. And most know nothing about what it takes to win championships.

I dont remember Saban winning everything right off the bat. Nor Mack Brown for that matter. It took time,and a lot of luck having a team not riddled with injuries, and enough depth to cover the deficit without having to play underclassmen against NFL caliber players in the SEC west in Nick Sabans case. I dare say Sumlin has been quietly getting what has been needed. But the QB play the last 3 years has been... well , you know what they've been up against. I think Knight and the Monds kid will do us a lot better in the future. And to me the future looks bright. I think getting rid of Sumlin at this point would be a monumental mistake. But I'll leave space for the season to play out.

ps. I hope some day that the truth of what went on with Kyler and Kyle comes out, I really do.Then we can say all we want to say. But until that day happens, we cant lay blame anywhere, not even on them.

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For the love of God, shut up. You type the same angry old man **** on every thread. We get it, you *know* what it takes to be a fan. Great.

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Texas took us the the woodshed the last 2 signing days and we're whiffing on top Texas talent. We can't recruit DL or LB well. It's declining. Hold on to your rankings though.

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2016, yes.

How they whip us in 2015?

Oh no. Not another fire the coach thread.

Hill, Boyd, Jefferson.

We finished 1 spot behind them on 247 composite.

To say they took us to the woodshed is pushing a narrative with extreme exaggeration

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If that's high then we're not even trying.

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Bingo. Nine wins would put us around the middle of the SEC West pack with no championships and at best a mid-tier bowl. If that is what we are shooting for these days then we wasted a lot of money on this coach and the new facilities because we could have done that with the old stadium and coach and saved a lot of money.

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Maybe if we could ever keep a team intact for a full season,or not have to play underclassmen like we did in 2013 and 2014 we wouldnt be having this conversation... eva. But you clowns know nothin but wins/losses. Never taking into account why, or what is directly under Sumlins control and what aint. All I can see is that the naysayers only want to lay blame. When blame cant be layed. Mostly because none of you know what the conversations are during the year when problems arise. But you act like you know exactly what went on. And most know nothing about what it takes to win championships.

I dont remember Saban winning everything right off the bat. Nor Mack Brown for that matter. It took time,and a lot of luck having a team not riddled with injuries, and enough depth to cover the deficit without having to play underclassmen against NFL caliber players in the SEC west in Nick Sabans case. I dare say Sumlin has been quietly getting what has been needed. But the QB play the last 3 years has been... well , you know what they've been up against. I think Knight and the Monds kid will do us a lot better in the future. And to me the future looks bright. I think getting rid of Sumlin at this point would be a monumental mistake. But I'll leave space for the season to play out.

ps. I hope some day that the truth of what went on with Kyler and Kyle comes out, I really do.Then we can say all we want to say. But until that day happens, we cant lay blame anywhere, not even on them.

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Saban:
7-6
12-2
Natty

Mack:
9-3
9-5
9-3
11-2


You obviously don't know what it's like to be a fan because you are making it up. The reason they got the big bucks was because they knew how to win.