Steriods?

A real S&C program?

I just read your comment on the TCU thread. If it is steroids, Coach Fran is the dealer. When he got to TCU, something like 6 players could bench 400 lbs. When he left, it was around 50. When he got to Alabama, maybe 12 could press 400. When he left, it was over 65.

Coach Fran emphasizes upper body strength. He does it with a S&C program that works. He couldn't convince his old S&C coach to come with him, but he brought another disciple to "work" with Coach Clark to improve the Aggie numbers.

You guys don't understand how strong that is... I would suspect that your average lineman bench in the NFL is considerable lower.

There is a genetic maximum to how strong people can get. 400-500 is usually where it is.

How much was it that Larry Allen benched a year or two ago?...

"All right, brain, I dont like you and you dont like me, so lets just do this and ill get back to killing you with beer." - Homer J. Simpson

700 lbs... He then suffered a mysterious shoulder injury.

Not that its important, but the TCU guy exaggerated, only 2 Frogs can press 600+.

I agree, 600 is a crazy high number. But, I think that 400-499 is the norm these days for NFL players, particularly the younger ones. And if 50-55 players at TCU can press 400+, that's 2/3 of the scholarship players. I think the bar has been raised a little.

I was amazed at how low our records in bench and squat were. I went to a small AAA high school and we had several guys benching over 400 (one guy maxed at 450 and had a goal of 500 that he didn't make). I'm not sure how they measure a complete squat, but I was present when my high school teammate squatted 815#. Just to clarify, his thighs were well below parallel with the ground on this. I would expect a college program of our size would at least have some lineman who could put up numbers in this area and higher on the bench.

Pro athletes are incredibly strong. Spencer Tillman came and spoke at my church about a decade ago, and even though he was recently retired (I think), he said he could still bench 440 pounds.

Everyone was shocked because he looked so lean - not huge by any means.

[This message has been edited by Keegan99 (edited 2/28/2003 7:02p).]

My boss was a walk on at Ohio St and he doesn't look buff at all (6-2 190) and he can bench 400+.

There's also a pretty wide range of what's allowed technique-wise from program to program for a lift to "count".

Just a quick note, one of my close friends just recently broke the bench press record at TCU at 505 lbs. and that was last fall, now he is going back to re-break that among other records that he has set. These are the correct facts, trust me.

Bench press is probably the only statistic in existance that gets fudged more than 40 times.

In order of prevarication (among football players):

1. Bench Press
2. 40 Time
3. Height
4. Weight

I don't know how many TCU players can bench over 600 lbs. Who cares? We have owned them on the fb field for over 30 years with what, 26 victories in a row, most of which were embarrassing blowouts.

The world formula record for a 265lb man is 750, set in Feb 01 by a guy named Bill Crawford. http://www.geocities.com/bench700plus/ (Took me 3 edits before I got the link right.)

I used to think that the human genome was only capable of producing so much, that human bone, ligaments, muscle and other tissue were only capable of so much before they ripped apart. Since we are now at around 750 for the bp, I will not predict where it will end up. It would not surprise me to hear of some guy who weighed 365 who benched 1000.

[This message has been edited by Jim Benson 63 (edited 3/1/2003 8:07p).]

[This message has been edited by Jim Benson 63 (edited 3/1/2003 8:12p).]

[This message has been edited by Jim Benson 63 (edited 3/1/2003 8:14p).]

College athletes...benching 600...No way!

unless they are just weight lifters.

[This message has been edited by oldoldag (edited 3/1/2003 8:08p).]

I think it is amazing that Tiger Woods can bench 300 pounds.

Fran has stated that his TCU team was in better shape and better overall than the Alabama team that he took over.

Then showed that year in 2000, Florida State had the most players at the NFL combines.

TCU was second.

That is something to look forward to. We need more strength, especially in the trenches.

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700 lbs... He then suffered a mysterious shoulder injury.

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I'm surprised he didn't get a mysterious nut injury, because that's what I would have busted trying to get 700 lbs off my chest.

3 Frogs can bench over 600 lbs, Anthony Alabi was injured and did not compete in Night of Champions. He was last year's champion in bench and squated 830, so he might have been champion again this year.

I believe Larry Allen was 770 lbs. Not sure which "scientist" calculated that "genetically" humans can only bench 400 lbs. Sounds like an Aggie.

As for the steriods claim. I have one word....FRANCHIONE. He has had 25% increases in strength at every program he has been at. You pplayers are weak and he has commented on it many times. His program and work ethic will make them stronger...does that mean A&M is using steriods...you tell me. I, for one, believe Fran is a snake but not a cheater and not willing to risk violations, especially after feeling pain at Alabama. I believe whatever your conclusions are about Fran, Gary Patterson probably runs his strength and conditioning in much the same fashion.

You are correct TCU did send something like 12 players to NFL in 2000, second only to Florida St. I can assure TCU didn't recruit the #1 class in the nation but Fran/Patterson had them hitting the weights like animals and produced guys like Tomlinson, Schobel, Layne, etc.

http://gofrogs.ocsn.com/sports/m-footbl/spec-rel/022703aac.html

98--can you explain to me why with these fabulous stats. your o-linemen from the 2000 team that were invited to the NFL combine had such mediocre performances there?? David Bobo with 19 reps@225--which would indicate a sub 400 lb. max---and Michael Keathley with 28 reps, which is very good but represents a 430-450 max? And then there is LaDanian himself who claimed a 450 lb. max but could only manage 18 reps.@ 225.

converting repititions to max is not a valid arguement...one tests pure strength the other brings endurance in

It absolutely is a valid point--as a matter of fact there are conversion tables that convert reps of any certain weight to a one time max. Some programs use this to avoid injuries that are associated with trying to move more weight than you are capable of. PLUS--I have spent too much time in the weight room and especially around players in the weight room. It's apparent that without the aid of a spotter the performance of these guys dimishes significantly. Perhaps it should be "double team bench press".

http://www.mcshane-enterprises.com/ASL/clark.htm

Why don't you guys who think that this is impossible have a good read about Anthony Clark? His numbers are 100% legit, as they are all performed in POWERLIFTING MEETS, which have conditions that are MUCH more stringent and difficult to excel under than typical off season max-out sessions. He benched 600 pounds as a teenager, was the first man to bench 700 pounds, REVERSE GRIP bench pressed 700 pounds (I personally saw him reverse bench 550 with my own eyes), and the first man to ever bench 800 pounds. He also did all of that (believe it or not, doesn't matter) without the use of anabolic steroids. His life story is amazing.

bottom line, those numbers are attainable with hard work. I did a below-parallel squat of 625 pounds at 16 years and 7 months with nothing more than a squat suit, a belt, and a lot of busting my ass. All of that was on a highschool weight program without taking any supplements whatsoever.

[This message has been edited by Redass05 (edited 3/3/2003 11:42a).]

uncle don, luke is right in that there is no way to accurately estimate a single rep max from a rep count that high with 225. It is possible to do it with a 5 rep max but even that depends on the lifter. A powerlifter that trains to perform a single rep maximum would usually differ from a football player, even an offensive or defensive lineman. Most players could probably expect to single rep max about 40-50lbs higher than their best set of 5.

[This message has been edited by 53Storm (edited 3/4/2003 11:11a).]

You're telling me that a guy like LaDainian that can run the ball all day long, has a body fat %tage in the single digits and his coaches were making him stop at 450 lb. bench max because "that was enough" and then goes to the combine and does 18 reps. @225. FOUL!!! Not only LaDainian but those numbers carry through everyone in the whole program!?! Plus--we've seen them on the field. They put up negative yards rushing against A&M's "weaklings".

I heard that on coachfran.com....wow...news travels fast





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Mmmmmmmmmmmm........Goooooooooodddddddddd!

i benched 440 at 6'2", 215 as a college freshman and it felt like 1 shoulder and both elbows were going to shatter. the average pro lineman benches about 425 from what I've heard. 3 guys at 600+ is insane. i'm anxious for Fran to make our guys stronger like i've heard he will do. heck, if he can send 10+ to the NFL from TCU, he can produce that many on a consistent basis with our talent. Tomlinson is the only one who's done much so far, though.

215 @ 6'2" isn't exactly what I'd call a huge frame either, no offense... These guys are weighing in at 300+ in most cases and have arms as big around as most poster's thighs...

guys like uncle can question all they want. And yeah, maybe a couple of those lifts were fudged. However, you can no argue with the fact that when Fran arrived in Ft. Worth, TCU had single digit numbers of 400lb. bench pressers. When he left they had over 40. Maybe a handful of those 40 lifted only 385, but the big picture is that Fran will field a team that is rarely "manhandled" or out conditioned.


"He (Franchione) is a better recruiter than Mac Brown and a better gameday coach than Bob Stoops."

Greg "The Hammer" Williams

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David Bobo with 19 reps@225--which would indicate a sub 400 lb. max

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If you're curious about how much he could lift, you could try and call him. He's now a football grad assistant at A&M under Coach Fran.

http://sports.tamu.edu/staff.php

you guys are comparing career powerlifters with football players. It is totally different. Career powerlifters train year round. Football players train in the off-season and summers, the rest of the year they are maintaining. There is at least a 4 month in-season period where no strength gains are really plausable.

They might take steriods. Who cares, that is their choice. I am just saying lets be honest with ourselves guys.