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Where is the national outrage!

4,091 Views | 54 Replies | Last: 23 yr ago by
zoid77
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From what I understand, the NCAA has a procedure in place for just this post-signing day coaching-change situation whereby signees can change schools without losing the year of eligability. The problem is, most other premier programs have already maxed out their scholarships by this point. I'd look it up, but I really don't care that much. I'll trust the D-1 athletes that told me this knew what they were talking about.

[This message has been edited by zoid77 (edited 2/12/2003 12:39p).]
MEENag
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Susan Sarandon ag

You need to reread the entire thread as well.
Here, I'll help:

I Should Be Working, asks
"ORAg, why the heck would Duck fans be outraged? We should be talking about all the angry beaver!"

ORAg responds
"The ducks are saying how horrible it was to leave all of the recruits... blah, blah, blah. OSU fans know that the program will continue and everything will be fine."





Olag00
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quote:
You don't hear it because you do not live in Oregon. If you read the papers there (or listen to the duck fans) you can hear the outrage. Also a slightly different situation when you leave for the pros


Heres another for you MEENag
Bundy
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SiValleyAg

"Bundy,
It is a fact that when A&M does anything out of the ordinary, the news media has a field day.
IMO, the reason is that A&M is one of the few institutions that holds itself to a higher standard, although that standard is different from what the media considers."

I would agree to an extent that A&M's out-of-the-ordinary events garner media attention. But so does UT's. So do other major universities' out-of-the-ordinary events.

Plus, I think it works both ways. When it is out-of-the-ordinary in a good way, its gets publicity. REd/White/Blue is a great example.

As far as holding itself to a higher standard, I'd like to believe that is true but I don't think it is. Numerous probation for the athletic department are a glaring example. Or perhaps we do hold ourselves to a higher standard, I just wish we'd meet those standards.

"On the other hand, nothing would really be out of the ordinary for the t-sips and the like. So nothing there is really news."

Really, the baseball team's probation weeks after winning the CWS wasn't news? The seemingly annual frat-hazing episode never gets media attention?

"The news media are truly hypocrites. They create news by criticizing different parties by different standards. For instance, they chastise some for doing one thing that they honor and defend others for doing. "

I disagree a bit about them being hypocrites. The media is amazingly consistant. All they care about are ratings (tv) or volume of readership (print). Now, their dogged determination to sensationalize everything for the almighty dollar has led them to be hypocritical on individual items.
Echoes97
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OK I was listening to Rome this morning. (Yeah I know I complained about him but he was less obnoxious this morning , I'm still far far from a clone) And he was ripping Erickson on his move to San Fran pretty good. He was going on about "how long have talks been going on?" and about how the players who he recruited are now stuck. Even though he can quit and move on, the players cannot decommit and have to stay at Oregon State for a year at least. So at least Rome was calling it like he saw. Some person wrote in an email saying something about Francione though.

Gig 'Em
g.w.
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Ofcourse there won't be any outrage over Dennis Erickson heading to the 49ers. Erickson wasn't nearly as admired or respected as R.C. Slocum. Though Erickson may have had two natinal titles and several wins, SLocum was, and still is, the picture of charcter, grace, and sportsmanship. His defensive stratigies are among the most respected and studied in football. He was highly thought of by NFL clothes as a producer of dependable NFL talent (with as many as 45 Aggies in the NFL at one time during the 90's).

Slocum was also the winningest coach in A&M's school history. Dismissing him was the equivalent of firing Tom Landry in '89. However, Erickson quit, and he was no Tom Landry at any level.

A&M knew that we were going to take a lot heat for firing Slocum when the axe was to finally fall. Add to it the scandle of "stealing" Franchione from the very school that "stole" Bear Bryant from us in '56 (at the same time "The Junction Boys" came out on ESPN), and you've got a big story.

I truly hated to see Slocum go. But, again, we wanted that Sears trophy, too. If Fran has the results that Jimmy Johnson had, all our wounds will heal fairly well. But, if it turns out badly, yeash... what a bad time to be an Aggie (noting that, even in the worst of times, being an Aggie still beats the hell outta being a t-sip).

Gig'em
ORAggieFan
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Susan,
That is what the Duck fans are saying. I know who the ducks and Beavers are, as I graduated from OSU. Understand the OSU fans are NOT mad at DE. The duck fans are bashing him..... Why they care, I do not know, but the OSU Beaver fans are happy.

[This message has been edited by ORAggie (edited 2/12/2003 12:58p).]
Wreckncrew96
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doh, didn't see this pesky second page, someone beat me to the duck reference...

[This message has been edited by Wreckncrew96 (edited 2/12/2003 1:02p).]
yourdaddy
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jlp...here's the basis (or lack thereof) of your statement"

"I imagine that Erickson was telling his recruits that he wanted them to come to OSU to play for him."

All kinds of wrong things come from imagining.

The "outrage" over Coach Fran leaving UA didn't come from the fact that a). he left recruits or b). he didn't tell his team in person that he was leaving. The "outrage" came because Coach Fran told the juniors and seniors on that team, who had a chance to seek other playing opportunities due to NCAA sanctions, that he'd be there to "hold the rope" with them during the tough spots (no chance at a championship or postseason play) with them. When the kids had a chance to make a decision to leave Coach Fran had no other options...it was in his best interest to induce the kids to stay so that the nucleous of his team would remain intact. Coach Fran splattered words like loyalty, trust, and commitment on his website and in his language to the players. He asked each one of the kids to match his commitment to the team. These kids (juniors and seniors) gave up their opportunity...the only one they'll have...to play for a championship and postseason, but not Coach Fran. Despite a personal commitment specifically to these young men that he'd be there to hold the rope with them...he took the first offer that came down the pike. It was the welching on this commitment to the juniors (he was there for the seniors) that is the basis of the "outrage" in the press and the hurt feelings among those players.

There's no rationalizing (though there'll be many attempts) the fact that the juniors who depended on his word...got dropped in the grease of Coach Fran's personal selfish ambition. Does it happen elsewhere? Yes. Does that make it a correct thing for Coach Fran to have done? No. Once making the commitment to the juniors and seniors he should've imposed on himself a 2-yr. period where he simply wouldn't entertain an offer from another institution. His commitment was to those particular young men...man-to-man, as was theirs to him, not to the university of alabama.

As to not informing recruits...that's a good thing in a way, and coaches is in one helluva spot when they entertain offers during recruiting season (end of regular season prior to signing date). If a coach entertains an offer from a competing school and informs the recruits he's entertaining the offer (even though he may turn it down) he's cutting his nose off to spite his face...if the coach has an intention of accepting the offer and the coach notifies the recruits he's acting in violation of his contract with the current school (see newweasel) and probably breaking an NCAA rule or three. Under a contract a coach, whether considering an offer or not, must act in the best interest of the school to whom he is contracted. In this respect Coach Fran has done nothing wrong to my knowledge.

As to not meeting with his players...IMO that's a CS move. The same private jet that whisked him from Alabama could've whisked him right back again to meet with the players...the time issue is a non-issue. If, as has been stated in his defense, his former bosses told him that if he got on the ag's plane that he was prohibited from returning...that getting on the plane was as good as accepting the job and he was personna non gratis on the UA campus...this would definitely mitigate the CS aspect of the situation. I've yet to see that anywhere but on ag message boards though.

All in all, Coach Fran's situation at UA...and the situation with the NCAA penalties and the juniors and seniors...was, and is, a very unique situation and doesn't lend itself to comparision with the oregon state affair.



MooreTrucker
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Dan Patrick has been discussing this, and it's his poll question of the day today.


BQ '81 (B-Co. drummer)

----------------------------------------
The road goes on forever, and the party never ends - Robert Earl Keen (he's an Aggie, ya know)
http://www.geocities.com/nailbone/
chick79
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techaggie's right.... Chris Fowler and Dan Patrick were talking about this during the noon hour on ESPN Radio.... they were giving Erickson a pretty hard time.... said there should be some sort of stipulation for Oregon State recruits to change their mind since Erickson left less than a week after signing day....
SOA 97
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ummmmm......maybe you aren't hearing about it as much because it doesn't affect our school so there aren't thousands of Aggies posting links to message boards, recorded radio shows, articles, etc, etc regarding this. Naaahhhh, that couldn't be it. It must be the mythical media conspiracy.
RRHorn
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I think the outrage over Fran leaving was his "Hold the rope" speech. Convincing the Alabama players to stay with the program despite the NCAA sanctions when they could have transferred and not lost any elegibility. He then bails, and said nothing to his players. What DE did was like what all other coaches do when leaving one program for another.

If Fran was not in the position of having to convince his players to hold the rope because of the sanctions and then made what for him (and any normal thinking person )was a logical career move (b/c who would choose any school in Alabama over coming back to Texas), nobody would have said anything but those yahoos at Bama because they knew they lost a good coach.

But unfortunately he WAS faced with the sanctions and did convince his players to not transfer and then left after they were committed, that is why there was outrage.....
Jim Rockford
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quote:
I think the outrage over Fran leaving was his "Hold the rope" speech. Convincing the Alabama players to stay with the program despite the NCAA sanctions when they could have transferred and not lost any elegibility. He then bails, and said nothing to his players. What DE did was like what all other coaches do when leaving one program for another.


Fran did his job as the coach of Alabama. The juniors and seniors had committed to UA prior to Fran's arrival. Are you sure that the only reason they stayed is because of Fran and his "hold the rope" slogan? Maybe it had more to due with money they had already received from UA boosters? Regardless, they were more responsible (accepting payments) with the situation they were in than Fran.

Mack had his "one heartbeat" slogan at UNC. He left an entire roster he personally recruited days after telling them he would stay. Why is he absolved just because he told them he was leaving? He "lied" to them as much as Fran "lied" to the bama players. He was merely more polite. If somebody stabed me in the back, I wouldn't feel any better because they apologized later.
yourdaddy
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rockford...i think you're intentionally missing the point to make the comparison to Mack Brown leaving UNC...rather than the OSU situation that started this thread...in an attempt to sidetrack the position that a couple of Horns have stated.

The facts are that what Mack did at UNC was exactly like what Coach Fran did at UA...ONLY WHEN YOU SPEAK OF MACK GETTING AN OFFER, CONSIDERING IT, AND ACCEPTING IT...they will always have kids they recruited on the team. The Fran situation at UA would be analogous to Mack committing to Roy Williams that if Roy returned he would be there with him and that his WR coach would also be there...then after Roy gives up his opportunity to declare early, Mack takes a job elsewhere and leaves Roy Williams twisting in the wind. If Mack did this and didn't give Roy an explanation in person, like a man, then it would be exactly like what Fran did to those juniors.

How many juniors would've had to make Fran's commitment part of his decision, to give up the right to transfer, in order for it to be okay for Fran to welch on that commitment? 1, 2, 3?
Fran made the commitment...Fran decided to welch on it. The last place I'd thought I'd find moral relativism (at least by reading what ags say about honor and all that) is amongst aggies...but lo and behold it rears its head.

There probably should be a waiver of the normal transfer rules when a coach accepts another job before a recruiting class gets through with their freshman year...then they can find some place that fits them better if needed. This would also cause schools to become more restrictive in their employment contracts or less liberal on the compensation without restrictions on movement. This still isn't the situation DF faced in 'bama.
RRHorn
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Rockford, (loved that show)and yourdaddy, actually what Mack did was the same as what DE did. It differs from what Coach Fran did (which caused the big backlash) because Coach Fran conviced players to stick with a program being restricted by sanctions, convincing them to give up the ONLY CHANCE of playing in a bowl game or winning a championship, some of these kids will ever have, and then after they held the rope and made these personal sacrifices as requested by Coach Fran, he left them. And he left them without saying anything to them. Now a lot has been made here about him not saying anything to the kids after he accepted the ATM job, but I disagree, I do not think there was any way Coach Fran could or should have went back to talk to those kids. I mean what do you say. Not a knock on Fran, but after these kids made their sacrifices and commitment to him and that program and he leaves them to further his own agenda, what do you say to those kids? How do you look them in the eye and tell them thanks for sticking it out, but I got a better job....? No way.
bamajama92
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*yawn*

you got a new coach

we got a new coach

that's in the past

everything else is just speculation and rumor

lets move on

end of story
Marshall Aggie
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Spoke too soon..

Many recruits feel betrayed by Erickson's departure

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
By Wayne Drehs
ESPN.com


When Dennis Erickson sat in Bob Moore's living room and pitched Moore's stepson about playing football for Oregon State a few weeks ago, Moore felt uneasy.

He sensed that Erickson wasn't genuine. That he didn't want to be there. He told his stepson, Justin Williams, that he didn't trust the head coach. But Williams, bent on playing football in the Pac-10, didn't listen.

And less than a week after Williams signed his letter of intent to play for the Beavers, Moore's intuition was proven true. Before the ink from his signing day letter had barely dried, Erickson was gone, on his way to San Francisco to be the 49ers head coach. The move left many of the 21 members of Oregon State's 2003 recruiting class, not to mention their parents and high school coaches, angered.

Some of them feel used. Cheated. And they can't help but wonder if they were abused by a system in which coaches can come and go whenever they want without penalty, but players can't.

"You believe in somebody, you make a commitment, you sign a contract and you think the coaches would honor that commitment right back," Moore said. "It's not like Dennis Erickson woke up one morning and decided to coach the 49ers. He had to have an idea. And he sat in our living rooms and told us otherwise. That bothers me."

While Kirk Ferentz, Bob Stoops and Rick Neuheisel all reportedly declined post-signing day overtures from the 49ers, Erickson accepted. He said he first met with 49ers officials on Saturday, met again in Portland on Monday and accepted the job on Tuesday.

"It was a very, very difficult decision," Erickson said. "I don't know if there's any good time for something like this. Before signing day, after signing day, a few months from now. There's no good timing. It was very difficult, but hopefully it will workout OK for everybody."

Oregon State assistants, unsure whether or not they will be retained under the new head coach, spent much of Tuesday night and Wednesday scrambling to touch base with recruits, doing everything possible to put their minds at ease. If Erickson would have left before signing day, players would have been free to sign letters of intent with another school. But because the move happened after Feb. 5, players will have a difficult time transferring without penalty.

"(Linebackers coach Greg) Newhouse basically told me that when you have success like Coach Erickson has, people are going to go after him," Lebanon, Ore. tight end Zach Hagemeister said. "It just happens. Then he reminded me that I made a commitment to Oregon State and not to worry. We'll move on."

Considered by many the jewel in Oregon State's 2003 class, quarterback Ryan Gunderson picked the Beavers over Tennessee. He was so upset by Tuesday's announcement that he missed a half-day of school on Wednesday to spend time with his parents trying to figure out what his options might be.

"The Tennessee thing came right down to the wire," said Joe Bushman, Gunderson's high school coach. "I know he definitely would have thought differently had he known this was going to happen. I'm not going to beat around the bush. Dennis was a major factor. He wasn't the only piece of the puzzle, but he was a big piece."

According to the National Letter of Intent office in Birmingham, Ala., if Oregon State were to release a student athlete from his letter of intent, that student athlete could transfer to another school but would have to sit out one season and lose a year of eligibility. If Oregon State doesn't release its incoming student athletes, the player can still transfer, but he'd have to sit out two seasons. The only way to transfer and not have to sit out a year would be to transfer to a I-AA school or file an appeal with the National Letter of Intent steering committee, citing extenuating circumstances.

But whether or not an appeal would be approved is questionable. Of the 20 rules listed in the packet that accompanies the actual letter of intent, only one -- No. 19 -- is circled. It states, "I understand that I have signed this NLI with the institution and not for a particular sport or individual. For example, if the coach leaves the institution or the sports program, I remain bound by the provisions of this NLI."

"I can't say what would happen (if one of the Oregon State recruits appealed)," said Eugene Bird, director of the National Letter of Intent. "I really don't know. But rule 19 basically states that you sign with a school, not a coach."

It's the most troubling line to parents. If a player only signed based on the school, why do college coaches put such an emphasis on building relationships with the players they're recruiting?

"That's what irks me about the NCAA," Moore said. "These coaches can leave and do whatever, but the kids can't. They're stuck. If Erickson comes out with this a week ago, the kids can do whatever they want. But now they can't. And I don't care what they say -- 99 percent of these kids go to play for a coach, not a school."

Said Bushman: "The kid, ultimately, is the one who loses," he said. "It's something that needs to be changed in the system. Maybe this will cause some change."

Not all the recruits were disappointed in Erickson's departure. Las Vegas linebacker Jeff Van Orsow was shocked when he got word by Erickson's decision, but didn't mind. As long as one of the school's current assistants or perhaps former coach Mike Riley is hired, he thinks the transition will be seamless.

"(Erickson) told us he had two years on his contract and he'd probably end his career at Oregon State," Van Orsow said. "And obviously that isn't going to happen. But I understand. That's a great job. And I didn't pick that school based on the coach. I'm going to Oregon State regardless."

Wayne Drehs is a staff writer for ESPN.com. He can be reached at wayne.drehs@espn3.com.



elginag75
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And so, the coaching merry-go-round turns once again. Now who is OSU going to take a coach from, or are they promoting from within?
Sully
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quote:
"By the way, interesting date you joined our little community here...12/6/2002. What else was happening here right around that time?"

Ah, you got me there. The date I became a poster rather than a lurker proves your point. Nice work Sherlock, you sure solved that mystery.


Thanks, but it isn't really too hard to find the turd when you can smell the smell.
kaiguy
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who cares. we aggies didn't think it was the end of the world when Fran left Bama for us - so does it really make sense for us to exemplify this new 'OUTRAGE' just because we were treated in a similar manner. Not really.

Forget what the others do and if something p*sses you off - then feel free to vent. If not, then I guess you can always post on TexAgs and ask why we aren't all 'OUTRAGED'.

-KaiGuy
bkgetter
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http://cbs.sportsline.com/collegefootball/story/6184485
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