First let me say I am a guest here, it's your forum, and I will try to post respectfully. A&M is a fine academic and athletic institution and I hope I can discuss realignment without getting a bunch of grief for what are simply opinions. Disagreements, of course - Hate, I hope not.
Let's get the hangers-on out of the way:
Tech: Must follow Texas wherever Texas goes, if they're invited. Tech would fade into ignominy if they were relegated to the WAC or Mountain West or anywhere without Texas. Maybe they'd survive if they went to the SEC with A&M, but they'd end up a perennial whipping boy the likes of Mississippi State and the advantages of being in the SEC would be swallowed up largely by A&M. Tech really has to follow Texas.
Oklahoma State: They have to follow OU. If they got into the SEC with A&M, and OU followed Texas to the PAC-XX, it would be a fantastic scenario for OkState, who would be the only Oklahoma school in a great conference, and they'd have the A&M game to help them draw recruits from Texas, and they may well start supplanting OU in the "steals a bunch of great Texas talent" spot, but I simply don't see them getting an invitation without Texas and OU in the same camp.
OU: They really need to follow Texas. The lifeblood of their success has been Texas players. I recall that one year I was at the game and 9 of OU's defensive starters were from Texas, and on the offensive side of the ball 6 were from Texas. They can't risk losing the annual game with Texas (say, being replaced at the Cotton Bowl by Notre Dame or Michigan or someone equally glorious) and being in a conference without Texas, and losing that recruiting base. If they got an offer to join the SEC with A&M, maybe... they'd still lose the Texas game and all that entails and I think it would being to hurt them.
Texas: There are only three choices for Texas.
1. Stay in the Big12 and add teams. Personally I like this idea and I wouldn't care if we added BYU and Utah (rivalry), or Louisville and Tulsa (decent teams, good road trips, nice TV populations, both in the North geographically), or someone of that ilk. I don't see it happening but I'd live with it.
2. The Big10. The CIC deal and the money and the academic reputation are paramount. No, we have nothing in common with a bunch of snow-plowing yankees who wouldn't know a possum from a barn rat, but at UT our deal is based off image, and the image of the Big10 is academically great and that's what our administration is after.
3. The PAC-XX. Same story. Is Washington State any better academically than Auburn? Doubtful. I really don't know, but I do know that the academic reputation of the conference is strong. Maybe it's just because of the hippies at Berkley and the nerds at Stanford, but it is what it is.
The SEC will NEVER be an option for Texas. Why? The IMAGE. I'm not saying it's right, wrong, or anything else but that it IS. Vandy is a great school. There are arguments for every college and you can get a great education at SFA if you apply yourself, but the fact is that nationally the SEC is seen as a group of over-drinking, NASCAR watching, win first, study second, football is king and the library can go to Hell, redneck schools.
I don't particularly give a crap what the world thinks about this school or that school, but the powers (pardon the pun) at UT will never let the school make a decision that is better for football than for the overall image of the institution. Our admin won't let that reputation cloud or alter the one we now have.
Would our academics suddenly go in the toilet if we went to the SEC? Hell no. But you saw how TCU's applications went up 24% in the year they were in a BCS Bowl. The athletic programs clearly reflect on the academic institution.
Personally I have a hell of a lot more in common with ANYONE at an SEC school than I do anyone at a Pac-10 school, but the reputation is what we're discussing.
So we get to you:
A&M:
1. Big10: I just see the cultural divide as too great for y'all to be in the Big10. Let's face it. We're Texans. Sadly Texas isn't as Texan as A&M. Those people don't get us, we don't get them, and I really don't care to roadtrip to Purdue and I guarantee you a bunch of Aggies in Indiana or Illinois are not going to enjoy themselves like they would in Starkville. You ain't going to the Big10 except at gunpoint. I wouldn't want to either to be honest. I think our admin would like to, but I hate the idea.
2. Pac-XX. The benefit is that you get a bunch of close road games with former Big12 South teams. You get to keep playing Texas. You can sell recruits that it's just the Big12 South with a few cooler road trips. USC, UCLA, Stanford, Washington... et al... The downside is that you'll be "the other team in Texas" that joined the Pac-XX. It doesn't distinguish you any more than you already are. You can probably win the Pac-XX East, and if you get past the West champ you can make a BCS Bowl. Don't discount that. You're a hell of a lot more likely to win the Pac-XX East than you are to win the SEC West, and a whole hell of a lot more likely to make it all the way through and win the conference than you are to win the whole SEC.
But then it's back to the culture thing. Those people are different than we are. Or better put, more different than you than UT. Texas fancies itself some sort of illuminati/illiterati institution along the lines of Stanford, whether it is or not. A&M doesn't much give a crap what the "cultured academics" think. Honestly neither do I.
3. SEC
The crap part of joining the SEC is that (1) you may not win much if at all. That conference is a mother. Road trips to LSU, Arkansas, and Florida and Auburn in a year can just destroy you immediately. If you get through all those chumps on the road you get Alabama and Georgia on the road. Thanks but no thanks.
That said, you'll probably fill up some seats!
The positive is that you'll make a TON more money and you'll get some fantastic matchups.
I really can't comment on the cheating thing since much of what we hear or "know" is distorted and I bet there's cheating going on everywhere. Hell a few years ago Houston Baptist University (gymnastics powerhouse) was busted for cheating in men's gymnastics. If they're doing it we're all doing it.
The question is really this: If you join the SEC will you win, excel, get a bunch of recruits who want to play in the big football conference, and ascend to power status, leaving Texas behind, OR will losing the Texas game and dwelling in the cellar make you an SEC also-ran that doesn't get much in the way of recruits?
Personally I tend to think that it will be financially fantastic for you to join the SEC, your non-revenue sports will explode with facilities and wins and championship, and you'll do well there. I think your football will fade to the Arkansas, Ole Miss, Auburn level, and probably not win a conference or national title though.
In the Pac-XX you're more likely to win a conference and/or national title, but you'll just be the "redneck Texas stepchildren of the conference", just like to some extent Texas will be. We have a better chance to be the darlings of the conference than you do, in the Pac-XX.
I'd like to see us stay together, and I think A&M can be successful in the Pac-XX but I think from a pride, "we are A&M and we don't need Texas", and independence standpoint were I an Aggie I'd probably opt for the SEC, even knowing that it's not bloody likely I'd do much winning.
It's really your chance to assert yourselves and try to grab the ring.
I'd do it. I can also tell you that it's in our interest to not play you if you do, because it gives you basically everything you had in the Big12, with the glory of the SEC. We can't let that happen. We can't risk you in the SEC, getting all that TV coverage and money, and still let you play with the Princess. You gotta play with the help if you leave the Princess' playground. You'd recruit too well if you were in the SEC AND still got to play Texas on Thanksgiving. We'd risk losing our recruiting dominance and you can bet we ain't risking that. We have to hope that not playing us offsets the glamour gain of being in the SEC.
So if you think you can make due in the SEC and still recruit without playing Texas, even though you're more likely to win the Pac-XX, you probably ought to do it. Just for the pride factor if nothing else, and I know that's something about which the Aggies know plenty.
I'll miss playing you, good luck, and enjoy the SEC. The tailgates will be great. When I'm on a road trip standing next to some ****** who's grilling salmon and drinking 64 calorie Genuine Draft I'll be envying your bar-b-que and Lone Star.
God Bless and Hook 'Em
[This message has been edited by BurntOrangeBoy (edited 6/13/2010 12:55p).]
Let's get the hangers-on out of the way:
Tech: Must follow Texas wherever Texas goes, if they're invited. Tech would fade into ignominy if they were relegated to the WAC or Mountain West or anywhere without Texas. Maybe they'd survive if they went to the SEC with A&M, but they'd end up a perennial whipping boy the likes of Mississippi State and the advantages of being in the SEC would be swallowed up largely by A&M. Tech really has to follow Texas.
Oklahoma State: They have to follow OU. If they got into the SEC with A&M, and OU followed Texas to the PAC-XX, it would be a fantastic scenario for OkState, who would be the only Oklahoma school in a great conference, and they'd have the A&M game to help them draw recruits from Texas, and they may well start supplanting OU in the "steals a bunch of great Texas talent" spot, but I simply don't see them getting an invitation without Texas and OU in the same camp.
OU: They really need to follow Texas. The lifeblood of their success has been Texas players. I recall that one year I was at the game and 9 of OU's defensive starters were from Texas, and on the offensive side of the ball 6 were from Texas. They can't risk losing the annual game with Texas (say, being replaced at the Cotton Bowl by Notre Dame or Michigan or someone equally glorious) and being in a conference without Texas, and losing that recruiting base. If they got an offer to join the SEC with A&M, maybe... they'd still lose the Texas game and all that entails and I think it would being to hurt them.
Texas: There are only three choices for Texas.
1. Stay in the Big12 and add teams. Personally I like this idea and I wouldn't care if we added BYU and Utah (rivalry), or Louisville and Tulsa (decent teams, good road trips, nice TV populations, both in the North geographically), or someone of that ilk. I don't see it happening but I'd live with it.
2. The Big10. The CIC deal and the money and the academic reputation are paramount. No, we have nothing in common with a bunch of snow-plowing yankees who wouldn't know a possum from a barn rat, but at UT our deal is based off image, and the image of the Big10 is academically great and that's what our administration is after.
3. The PAC-XX. Same story. Is Washington State any better academically than Auburn? Doubtful. I really don't know, but I do know that the academic reputation of the conference is strong. Maybe it's just because of the hippies at Berkley and the nerds at Stanford, but it is what it is.
The SEC will NEVER be an option for Texas. Why? The IMAGE. I'm not saying it's right, wrong, or anything else but that it IS. Vandy is a great school. There are arguments for every college and you can get a great education at SFA if you apply yourself, but the fact is that nationally the SEC is seen as a group of over-drinking, NASCAR watching, win first, study second, football is king and the library can go to Hell, redneck schools.
I don't particularly give a crap what the world thinks about this school or that school, but the powers (pardon the pun) at UT will never let the school make a decision that is better for football than for the overall image of the institution. Our admin won't let that reputation cloud or alter the one we now have.
Would our academics suddenly go in the toilet if we went to the SEC? Hell no. But you saw how TCU's applications went up 24% in the year they were in a BCS Bowl. The athletic programs clearly reflect on the academic institution.
Personally I have a hell of a lot more in common with ANYONE at an SEC school than I do anyone at a Pac-10 school, but the reputation is what we're discussing.
So we get to you:
A&M:
1. Big10: I just see the cultural divide as too great for y'all to be in the Big10. Let's face it. We're Texans. Sadly Texas isn't as Texan as A&M. Those people don't get us, we don't get them, and I really don't care to roadtrip to Purdue and I guarantee you a bunch of Aggies in Indiana or Illinois are not going to enjoy themselves like they would in Starkville. You ain't going to the Big10 except at gunpoint. I wouldn't want to either to be honest. I think our admin would like to, but I hate the idea.
2. Pac-XX. The benefit is that you get a bunch of close road games with former Big12 South teams. You get to keep playing Texas. You can sell recruits that it's just the Big12 South with a few cooler road trips. USC, UCLA, Stanford, Washington... et al... The downside is that you'll be "the other team in Texas" that joined the Pac-XX. It doesn't distinguish you any more than you already are. You can probably win the Pac-XX East, and if you get past the West champ you can make a BCS Bowl. Don't discount that. You're a hell of a lot more likely to win the Pac-XX East than you are to win the SEC West, and a whole hell of a lot more likely to make it all the way through and win the conference than you are to win the whole SEC.
But then it's back to the culture thing. Those people are different than we are. Or better put, more different than you than UT. Texas fancies itself some sort of illuminati/illiterati institution along the lines of Stanford, whether it is or not. A&M doesn't much give a crap what the "cultured academics" think. Honestly neither do I.
3. SEC
The crap part of joining the SEC is that (1) you may not win much if at all. That conference is a mother. Road trips to LSU, Arkansas, and Florida and Auburn in a year can just destroy you immediately. If you get through all those chumps on the road you get Alabama and Georgia on the road. Thanks but no thanks.
That said, you'll probably fill up some seats!
The positive is that you'll make a TON more money and you'll get some fantastic matchups.
I really can't comment on the cheating thing since much of what we hear or "know" is distorted and I bet there's cheating going on everywhere. Hell a few years ago Houston Baptist University (gymnastics powerhouse) was busted for cheating in men's gymnastics. If they're doing it we're all doing it.
The question is really this: If you join the SEC will you win, excel, get a bunch of recruits who want to play in the big football conference, and ascend to power status, leaving Texas behind, OR will losing the Texas game and dwelling in the cellar make you an SEC also-ran that doesn't get much in the way of recruits?
Personally I tend to think that it will be financially fantastic for you to join the SEC, your non-revenue sports will explode with facilities and wins and championship, and you'll do well there. I think your football will fade to the Arkansas, Ole Miss, Auburn level, and probably not win a conference or national title though.
In the Pac-XX you're more likely to win a conference and/or national title, but you'll just be the "redneck Texas stepchildren of the conference", just like to some extent Texas will be. We have a better chance to be the darlings of the conference than you do, in the Pac-XX.
I'd like to see us stay together, and I think A&M can be successful in the Pac-XX but I think from a pride, "we are A&M and we don't need Texas", and independence standpoint were I an Aggie I'd probably opt for the SEC, even knowing that it's not bloody likely I'd do much winning.
It's really your chance to assert yourselves and try to grab the ring.
I'd do it. I can also tell you that it's in our interest to not play you if you do, because it gives you basically everything you had in the Big12, with the glory of the SEC. We can't let that happen. We can't risk you in the SEC, getting all that TV coverage and money, and still let you play with the Princess. You gotta play with the help if you leave the Princess' playground. You'd recruit too well if you were in the SEC AND still got to play Texas on Thanksgiving. We'd risk losing our recruiting dominance and you can bet we ain't risking that. We have to hope that not playing us offsets the glamour gain of being in the SEC.
So if you think you can make due in the SEC and still recruit without playing Texas, even though you're more likely to win the Pac-XX, you probably ought to do it. Just for the pride factor if nothing else, and I know that's something about which the Aggies know plenty.
I'll miss playing you, good luck, and enjoy the SEC. The tailgates will be great. When I'm on a road trip standing next to some ****** who's grilling salmon and drinking 64 calorie Genuine Draft I'll be envying your bar-b-que and Lone Star.
God Bless and Hook 'Em
[This message has been edited by BurntOrangeBoy (edited 6/13/2010 12:55p).]