How many other teams claim they are champions in 1939? Who has the NC trophy?

There is no NC trophy technically. But the Associated Press said that A&M were national champions. Many others did too. ONE publication said Southern Cal were national champs (one that has never before been used to determine a true national champion), and two said Cornell.

If you're a sip playing a game, then 3 of your 4 national titles could also be claimed by other teams, and your only true title is in 1963.

Nebraska finished second, USC third.

1963...."true championship"...?????
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USC falsely claims it.

First, A&M wasn’t the best team in the land in 1939, not even close. Texas Agricultural & Mechanical College actually was undefeated in 1939, but there were a total of seven (7) teams that were likewise undefeated that season.

1939, which is the year the Aggies claim to have won a national championship, was a down year for the SWC. The four top teams in the SWC back in 1939 were Texas, TCU, Rice, and Arkansas. Texas was 5-4, TCU was 3-7, Rice was 1-9-1 and Arkansas was 4-5-1 in 1939. In non-conference that season, A&M played Centenary (2 wins), Santa Clara (5 wins), Villanova and Oklahoma State (5 wins). Then A&M played Tulane in a bowl game, squeaked out a 1 point win and claimed a national championship.

There are a few problems, however, to the Aggies dubious claim to the disputed and fractured 1939 national championship. First, you need to know that there are a number of other teams that claim a national championship in 1939 and several have better claims to the title that season than Texas Agricultural and Mechanical College.

In 1939, the top conference in the country was the Pacific Coast Conference. The top Bowl Game in the country was the Rose Bowl. At the end of the 1939 regular season, the consensus No. 1 team of 1939 was Tennessee, undefeated, untied, unscored-on in its nine regular season games in 1939, while it rolled up a total of 205 points. This was a Volunteer team that had not been scored upon in 16 straight games and had not lost in 24 straight games (very impressive by any standard, in any era).

The No. 2 team in the country at the end of regular season in 1939 was Cornell, whose 1939 team was 8-0 and had defeated Syracuse, Penn State and Ohio State. Cornell played a considerably more difficult schedule in 1939 than A&M. The 1939 Cornell team was recognized as national champions in 1939 by the Litkenhous and Sagarin titles.

The #3 team in the country at the end of regular season was powerful Southern Cal (USC), who played in the Pacific Coast Conference. The 1939 USC Trojans were undefeated in 1939, shutting out six teams and allowing just seven points to three others. Only 33 points were scored on Troy that year, still a school record. Among its key victories: a 14-0 win over No. 1 Tennessee in the Rose Bowl against a Volunteer team that hadn't been scored upon in 16 games and hadn't lost in 24 games, a 20-12 win over No. 7 Notre Dame in South Bend (USC wouldn't win again at Notre Dame Stadium until 1967) and a 19-7 win over No. 11 Oregon State in Portland. The regular season finale was an epic scoreless tie with No. 9 UCLA in front of 103,303, the second-largest crowd in Coliseum history. Compare that schedule to Texas Agricultural & Mechanical College’s cream puff 1939 schedule.

Texas Agricultural & Mechanical College (SWC champs) was #4 at the end of the regular season. Duke was #5 at the end of regular season.

The Rose Bowl game between undefeated #1 Tennessee and undefeated Pacific Coast Champion #3 USC was considered to be the national championship game in 1939. After the undefeated USC Trojans defeated #1 Tennessee 14-0, they were presented with the Knute Rockne Intercollegiate Memorial Trophy, at the time emblematic of the nation's No. 1 team. The trophy (originally called the Rissman National Trophy) was given to the team that finished atop the Dickinson System, a mathematical point formula devised by Illinois economics professor and nationally-respected football analyst Frank G. Dickinson. His system crowned a national champion from 1926 to 1940 (with predated rankings in 1924 and 1925). It was the first to gain widespread national public and media acceptance as a "major selector," according to the NCAA Football Records Book (the Associated Press poll didn't begin until 1936).

Dickinson stated that in 1939 "the Trojans were the best team in the best conference...and the nation's other top teams did not play as strong a schedule as USC."

Ask an Aggie if he’s ever seen A&M’s national championship trophy. He hasn’t, because A&M never received one. There was a national championship trophy presented in 1939 but it resides at USC. The Aggies were in fact voted #1 in a number of polls at the end of 1939, most of which were local or regional polls (or in the case of the three year old AP poll so new as to not be recognized) and carried little weight nationally.

USC now recognizes its football teams of 1928, 1931, 1932, 1939, 1962, 1967, 1972, 1974, 1978 and 2003 as national champions.

There were five other years (1929, 1933, 1976, 1979 and 2002) in which the Trojans finished atop polls, but USC does not consider the selectors in those years as being all-encompassing enough at the time to claim a national championship. But if you’ve never come close to winning even one, like Texas Agricultural & Mechanical College, you grab at whatever straws you can. Hey, you can’t blame them for trying.

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lol.......

Forget about it Itha. Aggies were 1939 AP champions. Here's the linky-link to the NCAA's web site

http://www.ncaa.org/champadmin/ia_football_past_champs.html

Take a look at the different poll services that have crowned champs over the years...Imagine all of the ridiculous claims that teams can make based on them...The AP is the only poll that has stood the test of time. Most people would recognize the AP poll as the default poll when claiming to be champs

The Aggies are the legitimate 1939 NCAA cfb champs. Not USC or anyone else.

I cant help but wonder why the nationally agreed rankings system doesnt count- USC is the champion-

I will admit if we were that close to having one ourselves we might claim as such.

Who cares? Championships before bowl games counted for them are highly suspect... and before WWII should never be mentioned.

Southern Cal had two ties that year. It's only in the past few years that they've tried to make a claim out of it based on an economics professor's mathematical formula. He gave up running the formula the following year, presumably because of the greater legitimacy of the AP poll which started in 1936.

Here's a link to the final polls from 1939, USC third with their two ties:

cfbdatawarehouse.com/data/national_championships/poll_results.php?year=1936

CFDW spends a lot of time tabulating recognized championships, only one team listed for 1939.

http://cfbdatawarehouse.com/data/national_championships/nchamps_year.php

Ithta, you seem to have drawn a fairly skewed picture.

http://encarta.msn.com/sidebar_461501221/1939_football.html

This is a much more objective view of College Football in 1939.

Can anyone tell me which team WON 11 games in 1939? I'll save you the effort, "Texas A and M"

Someone was arguing for SC...it says 8-0-2. Also, the whole thing about 33 points...we gave up 31 with one more game.

Publications which chose Texas A&M as National Champs in 1939

1st-N-Goal
Angelo Louisa
Associated Press
Bill Libby
Billingsley Report
Boand System
Bob Kirlin
Bob Royce
Century Football Index
Cliff Morgan
College Football Researchers Association
College Football USA
David Wilson
Dunkel System
George Trevor
Harry DeVold
Harry Frye
Helms Athletic Foundation
Houlgate System
James Howell
James Whalen
Jim Koger
Lawrence Baker
Massy Ratings
Mel Smith
National Championship Foundation
Nutshell Sports Football Ratings
Patrick Premo
Poling System
What's What
Williamson System

List of Selectors that Chose USC

Dickinson System
Ray Bryne

sshm = ownage

Poor lthta spent all that time typing out his best big boy reply to disprove A&M's only national championship yet he got swiftly and severly owned in the following posts.

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If you're a sip playing a game, then 3 of your 4 national titles could also be claimed by other teams, and your only true title is in 1963.

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What about 2005? Texas beat the greatest team in the history of the world USC and were the undisputed National Champion, I was there and saw it. They were the the number 2 team and beat the number 1 team, and were the only undefeated team left. Who else could reasonably claim a title that year?

BA A&M('99)
MA UT('05)
PHD UH('10)

2005 Rose bowl was great but I think that Penn States team was just as good as the horns and the trojans that year. Texas and USC definitly had the most exciting players to watch.

(I will qualify that I think that all the recent championships get a * until we get a plus 1)

lthta next time you might want to do some research before you throw out such bold statements. You just got owned.

i think itha got his info from hornfans, it's not his own material.

I'll conceed that you have 1/3 of something. It's definitely not a national championship in football, but it's something.

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I'll conceed that you have 1/3 of something. It's definitely not a national championship in football, but it's something.

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First of all, you don't have anything to "conceed" (or to concede for that matter). Secondly, nobody anywhere needs your concession. Texas A&M has the most legitimate claim to the 1939 national championship in college football. It is a claim that is based on an overwhelming majority of those who made the selections in that era. Furthermore, the claim has withstood the test of time (by Aggies, non-Aggies, and those who despise Aggies alike), for generations.

Your nonsensical drivel, like the opinion that it is based on, is worthless on this board. It is in your interests to move on from this topic. Try doing some actual research, pick an argument that's somehow worth making, and maybe someone will give a damn about what you post.

I don't thing the poster sounds smart enough to be a horn.

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Southern Cal had two ties that year. (1939) It's only in the past few years that they've tried to make a claim out of it based on an economics professor's mathematical formula.

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True 'dat.

Itha: you shouldn't have wasted so much time writing a troll post...That was a troll, right?

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but I think that Penn States team was just as good as the horns and the trojans that year

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No doubt that Penn State had a good season, but they lost to Michigan, tossing out any hopes of a NC. Two undefeated teams settled it on the field.

Haha, looks like Ithta just made himself a name on the football board.

Good luck getting credibility on any other topic.

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2005 Rose bowl was great but I think that Penn States team was just as good as the horns and the trojans that year. Texas and USC definitly had the most exciting players to watch.

(I will qualify that I think that all the recent championships get a * until we get a plus 1)

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Holy crap...I was as sick to my stomach that night as any other ag, but geez quit posting such stupid crap...t.u. is the undisbuted champion in 2005. Go ahead and poor more gas on the fire.

i ****ing love tech fans.

quote:

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Publications which chose Texas A&M as National Champs in 1939

1st-N-Goal
Angelo Louisa
Associated Press
Bill Libby
Billingsley Report
Boand System
Bob Kirlin
Bob Royce
Century Football Index
Cliff Morgan
College Football Researchers Association
College Football USA
David Wilson
Dunkel System
George Trevor
Harry DeVold
Harry Frye
Helms Athletic Foundation
Houlgate System
James Howell
James Whalen
Jim Koger
Lawrence Baker
Massy Ratings
Mel Smith
National Championship Foundation
Nutshell Sports Football Ratings
Patrick Premo
Poling System
What's What
Williamson System

List of Selectors that Chose USC

Dickinson System
Ray Bryne

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(tech fan angrily searching intertron)

From what I've read, A&M won 8 of 11 first place nods. USC won one and two other bums got the others. Of course, USC now claims it - which means we should claim at least two others as well.

USC is stupid.

or we should at least claim the 1919...

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If you're a sip playing a game, then 3 of your 4 national titles could also be claimed by other teams, and your only true title is in 1963.

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as is this.

according to wins and records and all that, we should actually claim the 1917 and 1919 titles b/c both teams went unbeaten AND unscored upon.

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I don't thing the poster sounds smart enough to be a horn.

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or gay enough