From what I remember, there hasn't been a thread on here about one of the most important men in Europe in the 19th century: Otto von Bismarck.



Not only could he drink 6 bottle of wine by himself in a sitting, he united most of the various German-speaking princialities into the modern German state by winning 3 war in 10 years by defeating Denmark, Austria & France in succession. He defeated all three with careful diplomatic preparation so that Prussia/Germany wouldn't be perceived as the aggressors when the war started.

Afterwards, he kept Germany out of war so as not to diminish their newfound power. He also introduced the world's first welfare system to provide benefits for old age & sickness benefits.

He also had a specially designed cigar holder so he could smoke them 3 at a time.

Also he authored one of my favorite quotes:

quote:

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People never lie so much as after a hunt, during a war or before an election.

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I'm a huge Bismark-o-phile. Not a big fan of the welfare state, but Bismark was smart enough to push it through when he did; he averted what would likely have been a huge social uprising - possibly even a revolution.

The result of that, interestingly enough, was a philosophy that mixed strong nationalism with socialism, and in that way, was a precursor of the Nazi view of the state.

Not that I'd knock Bismark for that, because that type of state does not necessarily lead to expansionism, racism or any of that. Both the Kaiser and Hitler took the country in those directions for their own reasons.

What makes OvB such a badass, and the Chuck Norris-style Asskicker of 19th Century Europe, is his passionate desire to create a brand new nation in the Heart of Europe out of hundreds of little city states and petty kingdoms which shared little outside of a language. And having a batchelor's degree in German, and having travelled the length and breadth of that country and heard all their dialects, I would even say that a common language is a stretch. Some German dialects are as far from the "mainstream" German as Dutch is.

Outside of the limited wars to unify Germany, Bismark wasn't really as warlike as people think. He certainly wouldn't have risked a general European war for Austria in 1914.

The reality is Bismark created an economic and military powerhouse for Kaiser Wilhelm's grandfather, and Wilhelm, with his crippled arm and desire to prove himself, took it on an adventure that doomed Germany to 76 years of war, division and destruction.

Oh, and I like the pic of him and Churchill, who was a young up-and-comer at the time.

Man, I wish we could go back to the days when heterosexual men could wear capes and get away with it.

Otto von Bismarck was a Prussian ass-kicker. He also had a way with words:

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The great questions of the day will not be settled by means of speeches and majority decisions but by iron and blood.

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and my favorite:

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There is a Providence that protects idiots, drunkards, children and the United States of America.

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quote:

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Man, I wish we could go back to the days when heterosexual men could wear capes and get away with it.

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LMAO!!

One thing that funny about German stereotyping:
We have the image of all Germans running around in lederhosen, which is more of a Bavarian/Alp thing. The other stereotype is that of the orderly & militaristic German, when in fact that is primarily a Prussian trait.

Stalin said something like "If the Prussians were going to have a railway strike, they'd all line up and buy tickets first".

The man knew the European political scene and could navigate it like no other. I've always been fascinated by Bismarck.

Hell, he even predicted the cause of WW1. "If there is another war in Europe, it will come out of some damn silly thing in the Balkans."

He couldn't have been that much of a badass, when he couldn't even shoot a single swordfish. Then the moron could only go in circles.

quote:

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Man, I wish we could go back to the days when heterosexual men could wear capes and get away with it.

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Metaman, express elevator! Dynaguy, snagged on takeoff! Splashdown, sucked into a vortex!
No capes!

I posted this about Bismark because of a podcast I listened to.

It was thought in the mid 19th Century that the German-speaking nations formed a 'buffer zone' in Central Europe & were essential to the stability of the continent.

The author of the podcast made the assertation that a unification of Germany was thought to be as unthinkable then as a unification of the various Arab states is now.

Imagine if some Arab "Bismark" was able to skillfully unite Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Kuwait, Sunni Iraq & maybe Egypt... the power that that person would yield & the resources they would control would be enormous. Hard to imagine & scary as hell, no?

Saddam tried it & got his butt handed to him in Kuwait by the rest of the world. Bismark did it & the rest of the world sat by & watched. Truly an amazing man.

BTW, can anyone recommend any good books on Bismark or Prussia.. maybe the unification of Germany in general?

Austria was a big reason why Germany didn't unite earlier on. It was constantly competing with Prussia to be the biggest influence on the German principalities and it took the Austro-Prussian War to stop their "interference." Another roadblock to German unification was the Protestant/Catholic split with many of the South German principalities solidly Catholic.

One could certainly draw parallels to the Middle East. It was controlled by an aging imperial power (Turkey). It remains divided due to theological differences (Shia/Sunni). It was/is constantly manipulated by Western European powers who seek to prevent unification.

That being said, I think Middle Eastern unification is a pipe dream. Germans were able to overlook theological differences and concentrate on their cultural history to create a nation. Germans were also able to buy into a federal system. The Middle East is made up of numerous different nationalities who don't share a cultural heritage. The only uniting force would be Islam and Iraq is a pretty good indication that Islam is not on a path toward reconciliation. Furthermore, it appears that there is so much distrust just in Iraq, that they are unable to adopt a federal system of government. Turkey, Egypt, and Iran would all resist unification because of their own cultural pride. Each probably wouldn't mind being in charge of an empire but there's a lot of bad blood between those three. You might be able to pull something together with the Arabian peninsula, Syria, Jordan, Palestine, and parts of Lebanon and Iraq, but I doubt it.

Great post.

Turkey, Egypt & Iran were mentioned by the podcaster as being outside the "Arab Germany" for the reasons you stated.

Oh. As for your book request, I'll try to post some titles for you once I've unpacked all my books. I know R.R. Palmer addresses Prussia and German unification in A History of the Modern World. If you've never read that, it's worth picking up.